New Kronos review!

[DaveyF]

Hi Alex,
Have you heard the new arms from Vertere? The new Vertere SG1 is supposed to be a superb arm and a great match for most turntables...including the LP12 and even the Kronos ( a step up over the Helena and the Black Beauty and a BIG step up over the Ekos SE!)
The Vertere Reference is apparently even better than the SG1,but at a steep price difference.

 

[asiufy]

Hey Dave, long time no see!
I've followed the Vertere development from afar, seen stuff at shows, etc, but never dug deeper. To be honest, I was never impressed by the old(er) Roksan stuff, specially the acrylic-y stuff, but still, it's been a while, so I maybe I should investigate


cheers,
alex

 

[PeterA]

I'd be really interested in this too
The Kuzma Stabi M with 14" 4 Point sporting a Soundsmith Straingauge cart on a Speirs active shelf, is right in the Sweet Spot re material and engineering prowess/true high end VFM, and is likely my next analog choice/likely final destination
Would love to get a comparison of the Stabi M to the Kronos

Marc, I thought your final destination was direct rim drive and a linear tracking tonearm? This sounds like quite a change of interest. I'm curious why you are thinking of going in a different direction. I have heard the Kronos Pro many times and I like its implementation of suspension and belt drive but I have not heard the new power supply. With it, the combination is pretty expensive. I would also consider the TechDas AF2 at that price point.

 

[spiritofmusic]

I find the Vertere gear to be somewhat overrated
Back in the mid to late 90s I owned the Roksan Xerxes X w Artemiz arm and Shiraz cart
I also deeply investigated Touraj's TMS, back then the series 2
So I have a good handle on Touraj's signature sound
Personally I found lots of reasons to move on
So imagine my moderate dismay when I heard his Vertere tt/arm optimised on his new Minus K derived platform at Munich 2016, and had a proper experience of deja vu

Peter, I still remain "sold" on DD and rim/idler, but from all accounts, the Kuzmas, esp the Stabi M have gobs more torque than many if not all other belt drives (up to stable speed in two revolutions), and it's a real world candidate in engineering/price terms compared to the rest of the competition

 

[DaveyF]

I find the Vertere gear to be somewhat overrated
Back in the mid to late 90s I owned the Roksan Xerxes X w Artemiz arm and Shiraz cart
I also deeply investigated Touraj's TMS, back then the series 2
So I have a good handle on Touraj's signature sound
Personally I found lots of reasons to move on
So imagine my moderate dismay when I heard his Vertere tt/arm optimised on his new Minus K derived platform at Munich 2016, and had a proper experience of deja vu

Peter, I still remain "sold" on DD and rim/idler, but from all accounts, the Kuzmas, esp the Stabi M have gobs more torque than many if not all other belt drives (up to stable speed in two revolutions), and it's a real world candidate in engineering/price terms compared to the rest of the competition

Interesting, as I also previously was less than overly impressed with The Roksan gear. However, I have heard that the new arms are truely something special. They are supposed to be superior to the current Ekos SE ( on the LP12) and also to most other arm on the market!! Like most analog gear, it is very difficult to actually listen to these pieces in one's own system, but in the Euro press, they are getting great reviews! Anyone actually heard the arms?

 

[Ron Resnick]

I have heard Touraj's turntable and tonearm twice at Vertere, once at a dealer demo and once at a show, and I think the combination sounds fantastic. Of course these were not A/B comparisons so it's hard to be certain of anything.

 

[DaveyF]

Ron, do you remember which arm you heard? Was it the reference arm or the new SG-1 ( which is priced far more reasonably and apparently gives one about 90% of the much more expensive arm).

 

[Ron Resnick]

At Vertere I heard both, side-by-side, but I did not do a formal, listening test comparison. I think his reference arm is an impressive design. I believe Gary Koh is a fan of the reference tonearm as well.

I know Marc is not a fan of the Roksan products, but I really think that the Vertere products are in a higher league.

 

[DaveyF]

Ron, what was your impression of the new SG-1 arm? Any idea as to what cartridge they were using with it? BTW, i totally agree with you, the Vertere products are very different to the Roksan products.
I am particularly interested in the new SG-1 arm, as it might be a nice step up for me on my LP12. Unfortunately, I am concerned that since my table is so persnickety about what arm works with it, a wrong move could be costly. The SG-1 certainly has the press and the potential design qualifications..question is does it play nice with the li'l bugger LP12.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Ron, what can I tell you?
I lived with the Xerxes for many years, investigated the TMS
The Vertere is cut from the same cloth
Me, I need a different tailor
I am surprised the sound works for you, I find Touraj's signature to be summed up by overdry bass, and curtailed harmonics
Overall a pinched sound
Heard all this in Munich as I did back in late 90s

 

[XV-1]

Hello,
I'm thinking about replacing my TW Acustic AC full BN upgrade. I'm watching maîly 2 models for that and would like to collect your opinions here. The first and more expensive is the Kronos Sparta, and the second one is the Kuzma Stabi M.
No way to compare here because in my country, analog is not that big hi fi sales.
The Kuzma M is described as being a reproduction tool near to the master tapes. I love the look and build quality, and the Kronos Sparta with it's suspension and counter rotative platters seems to make great music that make the listener to forget about technics and imerge into music.
I listen mainly classical music.

What tonearm do you use?

I own a TW Acustik AC-3 and too was thinking of moving it on. I had a demo of a Thales Simplicty II and it has transformed the sound of the table. It would seem any perceived weakness was the tonearm, not the table.

The Simplicity II is world class so perhaps see if you can have a listen.

cheers

 

[cuntigh]

What tonearm do you use?

I own a TW Acustik AC-3 and too was thinking of moving it on. I had a demo of a Thales Simplicty II and it has transformed the sound of the table. It would seem any perceived weakness was the tonearm, not the table.

The Simplicity II is world class so perhaps see if you can have a listen.

cheers

Hello,
I have a 12" Da Vinci Grandezza. I have a MC Anna cart that just came back from Ortofon for a rebuild but I haven't put it back in place yet as I would like to sell it a buy a Madake, and also because my platter is still at TW Acusitc factory for a repolishing / varnishing.
I just seen the Vertere RG TT with a SG arm receive very good reviews and appreciations from buyers. Do you think they are underrated in the Audiophile community because Touraj Moghaddam was Roksan's maker ?
They look interesting even if I'm not acrylic fan

 

[bonzo75]

Hello,
I have a 12" Da Vinci Grandezza. I have a MC Anna cart that just came back from Ortofon for a rebuild but I haven't put it back in place yet as I would like to sell it a buy a Madake, and also because my platter is still at TW Acusitc factory for a repolishing / varnishing.
I just seen the Vertere RG TT with a SG arm receive very good reviews and appreciations from buyers. Do you think they are underrated in the Audiophile community because Touraj Moghaddam was Roksan's maker ?
They look interesting even if I'm not acrylic fan

The Anna to me is much more natural with right details and timbre for classical, like Lyra and Zyx Uni II. The Madake is very colored, does not resolve complex orchestra well, sounds muddy and rolled off. This was in a direct AB with Zyx on two different TTs.

 

[PeterA]

The Anna to me is much more natural with right details and timbre for classical, like Lyra and Zyx Uni II. The Madake is very colored, does not resolve complex orchestra well, sounds muddy and rolled off. This was in a direct AB with Zyx on two different TTs.

I have read great things about the Anna, but never actually heard one. Thanks for that comment.

 

[bonzo75]

I have read great things about the Anna, but never actually heard one. Thanks for that comment.

I seem to be the Ortofon A90/95/Anna types, and Lyra Etna/Atlas, though the latter require more dough which IMO is not required. The Zyx Uni II was also very good, and Steve's Zux Uni P is just awesome but too expensive. I compared the Anna to the Zyx Uni P and though it got beat (different arms), it was pretty good on its own, if not ABed against a much more expensive cartridge.

 

[Barry]

The Madake is very colored, does not resolve complex orchestra well, sounds muddy and rolled off. This was in a direct AB with Zyx on two different TTs.

"Very colored"? I find this curious. I heard the Madake in a direct back to back comparison with the Ortofon A95 on the same system and it was very similar sounding, only slightly warmer. I don't doubt what you heard, but wonder if there was something wrong with the one you auditioned or the set-up. I like the Anna too and agree with you.

Oh, I have "no dog in this fight" - I don't own it.

 

[bonzo75]

Did you find it less detailed, lesser highs, and less bottom, than the ortofon? I heard it on FR 64 on modded thorens and EAT arm (copy of ortofon arm) on modded Garrard. Both compared with Zyx through Shindo top of the line phono. Chat later out for the night

 

[cuntigh]

Different ears, different systems, different opinions. Np opinions about Vertere's sound vs TT in about the same price range ?
What about Vertere vs TW, Kuzma, Sparta, etc ?

 

[ddk]

I seem to be the Ortofon A90/95/Anna types, and Lyra Etna/Atlas, though the latter require more dough which IMO is not required. The Zyx Uni II was also very good, and Steve's Zux Uni P is just awesome but too expensive. I compared the Anna to the Zyx Uni P and though it got beat (different arms), it was pretty good on its own, if not ABed against a much more expensive cartridge.

These are all great cartridges Ked and I doubt that anyone would be unhappy with any of them. Reason for having multiple arms & cartridges isn't for A/B testing but to have a varied sound, everything gets old sometimes caviar sometimes fish & chips is what hits the spot!

david

 

[XV-1]

These are all great cartridges Ked and I doubt that anyone would be unhappy with any of them. Reason for having multiple arms & cartridges isn't for A/B testing but to have a varied sound, everything gets old sometimes caviar sometimes fish & chips is what hits the spot!

david

Absolutely. Living with multiple cartridges does give you different flavours when we get a little tired of one. And of course the music - some music sounds terrible with a revealing cartridge, so a more cuddly cartridge can be just the tonic.

Our ears and brain have a wonderful way of adjusting our brains eq to enjoy cavier and fish n chips independently.