DCS Vivaldi

[jfrech]

Hi Barry,

Yes, obviously the requirement for SACD playback complicates the options. The other thing that would concern me as a hardware buyer in 2016 is the availability of spare transports (including lasers). It is one thing to build the new players and another thing to able to service them a decade or two down the road. I think a 50-something year old buyer investing in a dCS transport (or the 3000 HV you mention) have a right to expect a lifetime of service from it. I honestly do not think 40 plus years is asking too much from kit of this quality.

So I would be inclined (if it were me) to contact the manufacturers of these things and ask them what contingencies they have in place to service these players / transports in the future. As an example, at the cheaper end of the market (Rega Isis), Rega actually keep a spare transport at the factory, specifically ear-marked for individual players by serial number. It is hard to imagine a company like dCS not thinking into the future like this but personally I would still be concerned enough to want ask the questions.

I am "lucky" in that only owing a modest Rega, I can buy genuine OEM transports for a very modest price without even having to involve Rega (I actually had to replace one only recently). It is a very different story, however, with the exceptionally high quality and expensive transports used in top-end players like dCS, Esoteric, etc.

dCS apparently has a large cache of spare parts and spare transports to cover any service needs for what they've sold. I think this was also a factor in the Rossini getting a non SACD trans...this way they can ensure serviceability well down the road...fair questions you're asking...most dCS dealers should be able to help anyone out on this topic...

 

[Barry2013]

Thanks FF and JF for your helpful comments.
I have probably got around 40 SACDs and they do sound more natural to me than Redbook and I am not really into digital downloads so continued SACD functionality is a must.
My understanding mirrors yours JF re replacements for DCS SACD transports so I'm not overly concerned on that point but thanks FF for your comments too.
I don't need to rush to a decision so notwithstanding the preference for staying with DCS for the upgrade I will give the T+A a try and see where I go from there. If it turns out to be as good as HFNRR say then it might get more difficult, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.
If the HFNRR review is on the T+A website and you are interested in reading it and have any thoughts you would like to share after reading it I would be very happy to receive them, but please don't feel under any obligation to do so.
Thanks again for your interest and I'll keep you posted.
ATB
Barry

 

[Fiddle Faddle]

dCS apparently has a large cache of spare parts and spare transports to cover any service needs for what they've sold. I think this was also a factor in the Rossini getting a non SACD trans...this way they can ensure serviceability well down the road...fair questions you're asking...most dCS dealers should be able to help anyone out on this topic...

Thanks for letting me know. I would have hoped with such a top-notch company they would have it sorted as regards long-term serviceability. And I have to shout out here for Rega too - they do the same thing as I mentioned. I realise an Isis is not in the same price range as the dCS stuff, but it still costs as much as a decent small car. And I have heard both the Isis and an earlier dCS playing redbook (not a Rossini - I have not heard it) and they were both excellent. If I were constrained by budget and could not stretch into dCS territory, I don't think a Rega Isis is a poor consolation prize. Maybe just something to think about for people wishing they could afford dCS gear.

Barry,

In absolute terms, 40 x SACD is not a large number I gave a huge amount of consideration to SACD playback around 4 years ago - it was either that or go the vinyl and CD route. The vinyl only got the nod for one very simple reason and one reason only. Availability of titles. That was it. I consider the two formats to be subjectively similar in audio quality and to be honest, SACD has advantages that are obvious. Sadly, as at 4 years ago, in the classical genre there were slim pickings, especially as my tastes are very specifically pointed to the era spanning from the mid 1950s and the end of the analogue era. I think back then in 2012 there were a smattering of Mercuries, the Sound Mirror RCA reissues and not much more. Certainly not enough to sustain a decent collection.

However, were I to make a decision in 2016, I would have gone the SACD route. It seems that today, for every vinyl release I buy covering the aforementioned period, there is an accompanying SACD release. And for some record companies such as HiQ, they are releasing EMI material on vinyl and XRCD. OK, an XRCD is still a CD but they are very, very good. Nothing to really complain about and only a little bit worse than the vinyl. Nevertheless, unfortunately clairvoyance is not my strong suit (but I am practicing hard), so I had to go with what was best at the time, thus committing to the vinyl format.

What genre do you mainly have on SACD?

 

[Barry2013]

Thanks for letting me know. I would have hoped with such a top-notch company they would have it sorted as regards long-term serviceability. And I have to shout out here for Rega too - they do the same thing as I mentioned. I realise an Isis is not in the same price range as the dCS stuff, but it still costs as much as a decent small car. And I have heard both the Isis and an earlier dCS playing redbook (not a Rossini - I have not heard it) and they were both excellent. If I were constrained by budget and could not stretch into dCS territory, I don't think a Rega Isis is a poor consolation prize. Maybe just something to think about for people wishing they could afford dCS gear.

Barry,

In absolute terms, 40 x SACD is not a large number I gave a huge amount of consideration to SACD playback around 4 years ago - it was either that or go the vinyl and CD route. The vinyl only got the nod for one very simple reason and one reason only. Availability of titles. That was it. I consider the two formats to be subjectively similar in audio quality and to be honest, SACD has advantages that are obvious. Sadly, as at 4 years ago, in the classical genre there were slim pickings, especially as my tastes are very specifically pointed to the era spanning from the mid 1950s and the end of the analogue era. I think back then in 2012 there were a smattering of Mercuries, the Sound Mirror RCA reissues and not much more. Certainly not enough to sustain a decent collection.

However, were I to make a decision in 2016, I would have gone the SACD route. It seems that today, for every vinyl release I buy covering the aforementioned period, there is an accompanying SACD release. And for some record companies such as HiQ, they are releasing EMI material on vinyl and XRCD. OK, an XRCD is still a CD but they are very, very good. Nothing to really complain about and only a little bit worse than the vinyl. Nevertheless, unfortunately clairvoyance is not my strong suit (but I am practicing hard), so I had to go with what was best at the time, thus committing to the vinyl format.

What genre do you mainly have on SACD?

Thanks FF.
SACD availability is pretty good and it's not often that I can't find an SACD of what I want to buy.
The current collection is quite a mixture of Rock, Popular and Classical ABCKO Rolling Stones, Dylan, Patricia Barber, Melody Gardot, Ryan Adams Bach, Dvorak more rock and popular than classical with more of the latter on vinyl,Tried my first Bluray audio recently with Beck's Sea Change in surround sound and very good it is too.
I checked the T+A site and the HFNRR review is not available but others are

 

[Fiddle Faddle]

SACD availability is pretty good and it's not often that I can't find an SACD of what I want to buy.

Yes, and that is the case for me now in 2016 too! Just not the case when I committed 4 years ago to vinyl. Look what I could be buying today if I had gone SACD. That is 480 titles! I have not gone through them all but for probably 75% of my vinyl purchases over the last two years, there is the equivalent SACD (made at the same time but the same engineer). Even the CD layer in those Esoteric label SACD disks are excellent. The SACD layer must be amazing!

http://store.acousticsounds.com/index.cfm?get=results&genreid=10&categoryID=4

 

[Barry2013]

An update which I hope is not too off topic and possibly helpful to others contemplating their upgrade paths.
I currently use a Puccini with a Scarlatti clock and the intention has been to move to a three box Scarlatti Transport, DAC and the existing Clock, but a wild card emerged in the shape of the new T+A PDP 3000 HV which I have had very good reports on and was very highly reviewed in the March 2015 HFNRR. The matching amp and music player have also been very highly reviewed recently in TAS.
On Thursday I will receive a used Scarlatti transport and DAC to try in my system with my existing Scarlatti clock which I am sure will be a big improvement on the Puccini/Scarlatti clock. Certainly looking forward to that.
About a couple of weeks later I will get a demo T+A PDP 3000 HV to audition, hear and compare with the three box Scarlatti. The $64,000 question!I am told that the T+A will not disappoint in that comparison so really quite intriguing.
The other possible piece in the jigsaw is how much more would a Rossini DAC (which would be more of a stretch in the short term) add to the proceedings as compared with the Scarlatti DAC and the T+A.
I'll report my experiences later.
An interesting time ahead and please feel free to post any comments which you feel may be helpful.

 

[jfrech]

An update which I hope is not too off topic and possibly helpful to others contemplating their upgrade paths.
I currently use a Puccini with a Scarlatti clock and the intention has been to move to a three box Scarlatti Transport, DAC and the existing Clock, but a wild card emerged in the shape of the new T+A PDP 3000 HV which I have had very good reports on and was very highly reviewed in the March 2015 HFNRR. The matching amp and music player have also been very highly reviewed recently in TAS.
On Thursday I will receive a used Scarlatti transport and DAC to try in my system with my existing Scarlatti clock which I am sure will be a big improvement on the Puccini/Scarlatti clock. Certainly looking forward to that.
About a couple of weeks later I will get a demo T+A PDP 3000 HV to audition, hear and compare with the three box Scarlatti. The $64,000 question!I am told that the T+A will not disappoint in that comparison so really quite intriguing.
The other possible piece in the jigsaw is how much more would a Rossini DAC (which would be more of a stretch in the short term) add to the proceedings as compared with the Scarlatti DAC and the T+A.
I'll report my experiences later.
An interesting time ahead and please feel free to post any comments which you feel may be helpful.

When you get your Scarlatti trans and dac, be sure to use dual aes mode from trans to dac vs FireWire. It's better. If that option isn't available on your menus - then you have outdated software. Curious to your thoughts when it arrives.

Ps I'd give it at least 48 hours to warm up. It won't sound very good first day or two. Don't full power down ... Just leave it on...

 

[Barry2013]

When you get your Scarlatti trans and dac, be sure to use dual aes mode from trans to dac vs FireWire. It's better. If that option isn't available on your menus - then you have outdated software. Curious to your thoughts when it arrives.

Ps I'd give it at least 48 hours to warm up. It won't sound very good first day or two. Don't full power down ... Just leave it on...

Thanks JF.
That is very helpful as ever and I'll report back after the 48 hour warm up.

 

[Barry2013]

The factory refurbished Scarlatti Transport and DAC duly arrived last week as noted earlier and has had a fair bit of action, but not as much as I had hoped due to other demands, but enough to report a considered verdict.
Even from cold it was noticeably better than the usual Puccini/Scarlatti clock but it is now properly settled in my system. As recommended by JF it is running in dual AES mode albeit with stock cables and with my existing Scarlatti clock.
In a nutshell it really is the best digital sound I have heard in a home setting. My experience of Vivaldi has been limited to show demos,
More music across all genres.Instrumental placement and delineation in the sound stage is clearly superior. Better tonal density with improved transparency. Listening to the Ryan Adams Gold SACD there was a more gutsy sound to the up tempo numbers and in the ballad tracks veils between his voice and the listener were lifted. It was particularly evident on the Sylvia Plath track with a greater sense of innocence and yearning in his voice.On the busier tracks with multi instrumental backing the sound was more coherent than with my Puccini.
A little while back a I bought a Red Book CD "the Well Tempered Lute" and was disappointed in the sound quality compared with my Red Seal vinyls of Julian Bream playing similar music. With the Scarlatti the disc became enjoyable to listen to,
Listening to Julia Fischers SACD of JS Bach partitas and sonatas there is an added richness and fidelity, On Emmanuelle Haims Redbook recording of Handel's Messiah the effect is the same and words are rendered more clearly and intelligibly.
The DSD remaster of the Rolling Stones "Aftermath" is the best I have ever heard the Stones and Jagger's singing in particular.
Ditto Don Henley's Redbook CD "inside Job."
So an unqualified success!
The next stage is to hear the T+A PDP 3000 HV which I am assured is very good indeed. The Scarlatti will be a hard act to follow. The T+A does have the advantage of being one box rather than three which is a consideration for me. I'll just have to see when I hear it and will report back in about a couple of weeks.
What I am picking up on my grapevine is that the Vivaldi Transport and Clock barely improve upon their Scarlatti counterparts. I can't really make a judgement on that as I have not been able to compare them. The Vivaldi DAC in contrast is I am told a step up from the Scarlatti DAC. In terms of value for money I am wondering if the DCS value for money sweetspot is a Scarlatti Transport and Clock combined with the new Rossini DAC. Others' thoughts on that would be interesting to me and to other members I suspect.
That's all for now folks.

 

[LL21]

Great feedback, Barry2013 and hope if you like it that much, it is something you will consider keeping. I have heard the DCS Vivaldi 4-stack though not in a system i knew well. That said, i knew the other components a bit (Constellation, Rockport) and i have seriously auditioned the 2 prior generations of DCS as well. My sense of DCS is that their focus on instrument separation, clarity, silence is clearly evident and in the Vivaldi, they really managed to continue to 'dig out' details in the notes (and the near-silence in between notes) that create a wholeness of the notes that builds piece by piece, note by note, to create a wholeness of the overall presentation that is really something. The did not truncate notes to create false sharpness, or emphasize/'oversharpen' the image to create a sense of detail. The detail seemed to me really to be there, and to be 'whole'...beginning of note, depth in the 'belly' of the note, and the decay...

Quite special in that regard in my limited experience with DCS. Look forward to hearing about the T+A.

 

[XCop5089]

Having been a long time "lurker" on this forum, I am pleased that my first post, corresponds with being able to report the long awaited software update to the dCS Vivaldi DAC, which will take place this afternoon!

Last year, I upgraded from a Paganini Transport & DAC to the Vivaldi Transport, DAC and Master Word Clock. Being primarily a user of CD/SACD's and vinyl, I did not see a good argument for going the whole hog and purchasing a Vivaldi Upsampler. I have a Melco N1A Digital Music Library, but that plugs into the Vivaldi DAC via a USB cable and really does everything I want it to.

However, my dealer has been trying to get me to hear a Vivaldi Upsampler in my system and Liam Davidson from dCS has asked to visit, to listen to some tunes. So, imagine my excitement, this morning, when my dealer rang and said that not only would Liam be bringing a Vivaldi Upsampler with him this afternoon, but also the much awaited software update disc for the Vivaldi DAC!

I will report back in due course, when I have had the opportunity to evaluate the software upgrade and comment as to whether the inclusion of the Vivaldi Upsampler is worthwhile in the context of my priority with listening to discs on the Vivaldi Transport!

 

[XCop5089]

Having been a long time "lurker" on this forum, I am pleased that my first post, corresponds with being able to report the long awaited software update to the dCS Vivaldi DAC, which will take place this afternoon!

Last year, I upgraded from a Paganini Transport & DAC to the Vivaldi Transport, DAC and Master Word Clock. Being primarily a user of CD/SACD's and vinyl, I did not see a good argument for going the whole hog and purchasing a Vivaldi Upsampler. I have a Melco N1A Digital Music Library, but that plugs into the Vivaldi DAC via a USB cable and really does everything I want it to.

However, my dealer has been trying to get me to hear a Vivaldi Upsampler in my system and Liam Davidson from dCS has asked to visit, to listen to some tunes. So, imagine my excitement, this morning, when my dealer rang and said that not only would Liam be bringing a Vivaldi Upsampler with him this afternoon, but also the much awaited software update disc for the Vivaldi DAC!

I will report back in due course, when I have had the opportunity to evaluate the software upgrade and comment as to whether the inclusion of the Vivaldi Upsampler is worthwhile in the context of my priority with listening to discs on the Vivaldi Transport!

 

[Argonaut]

Exemplary service from DCS there XCop, I would be interested in your considerations as to how your digital compares with your vinyl replay, particularly before and after your exposure to the full on Vivaldi stack?

 

[microstrip]

Having been a long time "lurker" on this forum, I am pleased that my first post, corresponds with being able to report the long awaited software update to the dCS Vivaldi DAC, which will take place this afternoon!

Last year, I upgraded from a Paganini Transport & DAC to the Vivaldi Transport, DAC and Master Word Clock. Being primarily a user of CD/SACD's and vinyl, I did not see a good argument for going the whole hog and purchasing a Vivaldi Upsampler. I have a Melco N1A Digital Music Library, but that plugs into the Vivaldi DAC via a USB cable and really does everything I want it to.

However, my dealer has been trying to get me to hear a Vivaldi Upsampler in my system and Liam Davidson from dCS has asked to visit, to listen to some tunes. So, imagine my excitement, this morning, when my dealer rang and said that not only would Liam be bringing a Vivaldi Upsampler with him this afternoon, but also the much awaited software update disc for the Vivaldi DAC!

I will report back in due course, when I have had the opportunity to evaluate the software upgrade and comment as to whether the inclusion of the Vivaldi Upsampler is worthwhile in the context of my priority with listening to discs on the Vivaldi Transport!

Well, it will be a great opportunity to learn about a very debatable subject - as far as I have read, even the DCS people do not know why the system sounds better with the upsampler!

I could see you own a cj premier 350 - perhaps one the best existing value for money in solid state amplifiers. When properly matched this amplifier sounds fast and dynamic, but free from the typical electronic nasty aspects of large power solid state amplifiers. I still keep mine as I could never part with it. Did you ever try it with a cj premamplifier, such as the GAT? BTW, the more remarkable DCS sound I ever listened to was in a system using cj gear.

 

[XCop5089]

Exemplary service from DCS there XCop, I would be interested in your considerations as to how your digital compares with your vinyl replay, particularly before and after your exposure to the full on Vivaldi stack?

Agreed! I have met Liam from dCS before at Hi Fi shows and he is a really nice guy. It was great to enjoy a relaxing afternoon, listening to the Vivaldi Upsampler in circuit and a comparison of before and after the Version 2.0 Vivaldi DAC software upgrade.

As to how vinyl replay compares with digital in my system? Obviously, the investment in a Vivaldi Transport, DAC & Master Word Clock, far outstrips what I spent on my turntable/arm/cartridge/phono stage and I would say that my primary means of media replay is via CD/SACD's, which do sound sublime!

I have a large collection of vinyl from the 70's and 80's when I was an active record collector, turning to CD replay in 1988, some five years after it's introduction. There are some LP's that I have never repurchased as a CD, so I get enormous enjoyment from being able to play those albums occasionally. I certainly don't listen to a record and consciously think, "that sounds better in digital" or vice versa! I think that the quality of both system components allows me to enjoy the medium of music, however it is delivered.

All I can say is that I am happy with my record replay equipment and that the Vivaldi stack delivers what is possible from the silver disc, whether CD or SACD.

 

[XCop5089]

Well, it will be a great opportunity to learn about a very debatable subject - as far as I have read, even the DCS people do not know why the system sounds better with the upsampler!

I could see you own a cj premier 350 - perhaps one the best existing value for money in solid state amplifiers. When properly matched this amplifier sounds fast and dynamic, but free from the typical electronic nasty aspects of large power solid state amplifiers. I still keep mine as I could never part with it. Did you ever try it with a cj premamplifier, such as the GAT? BTW, the more remarkable DCS sound I ever listened to was in a system using cj gear.

Having had the opportunity to listen to my system before and after the Version 2.0 DAC upgrade and with the Upsampler switched in and out, I will say that the addition of the Upsampler is doing something to the sound! Liam suggested that up sampling CD to DXD via the Upsampler was relieving the Vivaldi Transport of some of the processing work and was therefore a good thing. SACD replay is apparently unaffected, bypassing the Upsampler and sending the DSD signal straight to the Vivaldi DAC. My initial impression of the Upsampler being "in circuit" was a tightening of the bass and an overall greater transparency to the sound, with greater "air" being present around individual instruments and vocals! As the Upsampler only really comes into it's own if you choose to upsample from 44.1KHz (not everyone's preference) it is a very expensive component addition (I am not interested in TIDAL, streaming or most of the other things that the Upsampler brings to the table).

It was a very worthwhile exercise and an upgrade that I may well consider at some point in the future, but it is not a "must have" for me at this time.

Initial impressions of the Version 2.0 DAC software update are encouraging. I have only sampled MAP1 (there are three MAP options on the settings menu) briefly, so far, but there is certainly a leap in detail retrieval, focus and resolution!

 

[Barry2013]

Having had the opportunity to listen to my system before and after the Version 2.0 DAC upgrade and with the Upsampler switched in and out, I will say that the addition of the Upsampler is doing something to the sound! Liam suggested that up sampling CD to DXD via the Upsampler was relieving the Vivaldi Transport of some of the processing work and was therefore a good thing. SACD replay is apparently unaffected, bypassing the Upsampler and sending the DSD signal straight to the Vivaldi DAC. My initial impression of the Upsampler being "in circuit" was a tightening of the bass and an overall greater transparency to the sound, with greater "air" being present around individual instruments and vocals! As the Upsampler only really comes into it's own if you choose to upsample from 44.1KHz (not everyone's preference) it is a very expensive component addition (I am not interested in TIDAL, streaming or most of the other things that the Upsampler brings to the table).

It was a very worthwhile exercise and an upgrade that I may well consider at some point in the future, but it is not a "must have" for me at this time.

Initial impressions of the Version 2.0 DAC software update are encouraging. I have only sampled MAP1 (there are three MAP options on the settings menu) briefly, so far, but there is certainly a leap in detail retrieval, focus and resolution!

Thanks very much for the post.
Will be interested to read of how the updated DAC performs in the light more listening.
I couldn't open the photos. I got a message saying I needed an update and when I went to that I got a big security warning!

 

[jfrech]

Having been a long time "lurker" on this forum, I am pleased that my first post, corresponds with being able to report the long awaited software update to the dCS Vivaldi DAC, which will take place this afternoon!

Last year, I upgraded from a Paganini Transport & DAC to the Vivaldi Transport, DAC and Master Word Clock. Being primarily a user of CD/SACD's and vinyl, I did not see a good argument for going the whole hog and purchasing a Vivaldi Upsampler. I have a Melco N1A Digital Music Library, but that plugs into the Vivaldi DAC via a USB cable and really does everything I want it to.

However, my dealer has been trying to get me to hear a Vivaldi Upsampler in my system and Liam Davidson from dCS has asked to visit, to listen to some tunes. So, imagine my excitement, this morning, when my dealer rang and said that not only would Liam be bringing a Vivaldi Upsampler with him this afternoon, but also the much awaited software update disc for the Vivaldi DAC!

I will report back in due course, when I have had the opportunity to evaluate the software upgrade and comment as to whether the inclusion of the Vivaldi Upsampler is worthwhile in the context of my priority with listening to discs on the Vivaldi Transport!

I can't wait to read about the sw improvements. My dealer says it should be significant. I do spend a 1.5 years very very very happy with the Vivaldi Trans/Dac/clock. My upsampler arrived a few months ago. I can't tell you how much fun i've had. I've even bought plain ole red book cd's recently. It's that good ! Plus it does a better job with downloads than the usb input on the vivaldi dac. I really consider it a "source" component vs a upsampler. I've really enjoyed it.

Thanks for posting !!

 

[jfrech]

My dealer and I installed the Vivaldi 2.0 software on my dac last night. Whoa...it's not subtle.

A lot more information getting to your ears. In a relaxed but at the same time having more energy. It's clearly a significant advance. It also offers more choices in how you like it to sound. I'll need a bit of time before I settle down on which mapper I prefer best (3 choices 2 new, 1 original) and a new DSD filter (#5). Right now listening to mapper #1 and dsd f5 and it's sweet. More involving, more energy, things in their space more and more organic/fleshed out. More layering. etc etc etc...not sure I'll go back to the original mapper, the new ones just seem better right away.

I'm very happy...and it was killer good before ! Love how you can buy something and they improve it over time!

 

[Argonaut]

My dealer and I installed the Vivaldi 2.0 software on my dac last night. Whoa...it's not subtle.

I'm very happy...and it was killer good before ! Love how you can buy something and they improve it over time!

Pretty much as per an Vivaldi stack owning friend just mailed me.

" Btw my Vivaldi was updated just now - just one word, amazing!! "

Presumably the Vivaldi 2.0 software re establishes the distance between itself and the Rossini, for its comparative price point, I Hope to hear his upgraded rig shortly