System for 10K that will shame $30K systems all day long!

[Whatmore]

Has anyone heard this supposedly incredible $10K system?

interesting first post ....

 

[Ric Schultz]

Here are a few observations that I have had (listening.....so its real, not imagined). The Hypex modules, as every other thing on the planet has a sound.....and it is not totally transparent....nothing is. If you use a better fuse in a Hypex amp it will sound better, if you use better connectors it will sound better, if you damp the chassis and modules it will sound better, if you isolate the power supply from the output module it will sound better.....but here is the real kicker......if you change the output filter caps in the NC400 to my modified Wimas you get much, much better sound. This is according to everyone who has tried it....they heard the difference. I don't know what caps they are using on the NC500 but whatever the caps are and whatever the inductor is......affects the sound. I made my own toroidal litz wire output coils when I was making/selling UCD amps and the handmade toroidal coils beat the stock ones......there is no free lunch...everything makes a difference. However, I will say that a tweaked Hypex module with a great discrete circuit on the input would be hard to beat. But it is not perfect.....not now, not ever. If you put WA quantum dots on the power supply caps it will probably improve the sound...same with mounting a Pulse Gen ZX inside the box and also using Magic Tubes inside the box.....I have not tried these things in a Hypex Ncore amp but these things improve every other component I have tried them in and same with my customers.

For this $10K list I would add modding the Gustard and possibly making an LDR kit from Tortuga Audio for volume (may sound better than the digital volume in the Gustard). You can cut in half and hardwire one long interconnect directly to the LDRs so there is only one interconnect.....very trick! Other speakers worth considering: New Hawthorne Audio open baffle speaker with 2 servo 12s on the bottom, the Vapor Audio Stiff Breeze, the limited edition open baffle speaker from GR Research with servo subs. The Hawthorne uses an AMT down to 1500hz? and is 98db sensitive......the Vapor uses a Raal Ribbon, the GR research uses a custom high sensitivity B&G Neo 3 planar tweeter open baffle. BTW I think the graph you showed for the Mundorf kit is just the specs on the tweeter by itself.....not the measurements of the whole speaker....I could be wrong on this, but don't think so. I am sure the Mundorf would be nice.

https://www.hawthorneaudio.us//cata..._id=67&zenid=65c37917fc8ab7b8de902e4e9bbadbed

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=138878.0

http://www.vaporsound.com/speakers/stiff-breeze/

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=138009.0

 

[Blizzard]

I had no intention of talking about technology in this thread. You're the one that decided to just say my submission wasn't good. You don't even take it seriously into consideration.

At no point did I say I build anything better. Please, don't try to align yourself with the authenticity of designers you share nothing with. Their validity is not yours. And my opinion for what I like is mine.

NC400's and the SMPS's are available to the public through the right channels. Some people have got the NC1200, but it's not suppose to be readily available.

For the ESS DAC my needs may be different than what the LDO offers, and I prefer to try multiple things instead of deciding what's best on paper alone. That's not the same as claiming I'm a better designer. And I PM'd you on that subject because I was curious, and even in the PM you got all uppity as if I took a dump on your design. For public record, you like to share PM contents in public.

When I say you don't know what you're talking about with SMPS's, that's not saying Bruno doesn't know what he's talking about. There is no synonyminity between you two; to him you're a nobody as much as I am. The reality is Bruno is fully aware of everything I've mentioned about his SMPS's. And there's nothing wrong with him designing one similar to all SMPS's because their basic function requires a few things by their nature; he just makes his much better. His SMPS is his best chosen fit for the Hypex business model. Clearly based on where you see them, especially in speakers, a LPS doesn't have as many selling points for those wanting plug and play solutions in specific enclosures. He also wouldn't be the manufacturer of the LPS in the same manner, so he wouldn't make nearly as much money - not owning a transformer factory etc. He made the right choice for Hypex, and unless he's specifically stated no LPS he tried with his ears was as good, then I'm only inclined to believe the SMPS was chosen because it fits the business model and performance goals, not because "it's just the best ever look at the graphs!!!" There's nothing wrong with that. I do the same thing, choosing what fits as opposed to attempting an end all performance because it has no end. Ceramic circuit board with silver pours, or whatever, isn't always a realistic option.

I was excited about this thread when you said you were going to make it. But I thought more people would submit their ideas. Perhaps some questions would be asked as well. So far I'm the only person to submit something and it gets poo poo'd. But even before that I should have been smarter to notice the thread was about you. You basically tell everyone what's what, and deny their participation unless they'll drink the Kool-Aid. This is like so many threads on this forum where you simply try to dominate by posting.

Best of luck with your endeavors Blizzard.

First of all, wheres the product? All I seen was some prototype DIY boards, and a few links to some PCB gerber files. How is anyone supposed to take this as a serious contender?

Where's the finished product in a case with detailed pictures, spec sheet, explanation of circuit topology? Where's the website it can be ordered on and added to the cart for express shipping? How can you seriously expect people on this forum to jump on this with the data you have provided? I don't even know the power output.

Then you suggest some power conditioner, and provide absolutely no information on it what so ever? Is this a joke or something?

And about the LDO for the DAC, I didn't share anything from any PM. This is exactly what you said in response to the LDO on the 9038 pro thread:

"Actually I'm not interested in it having an LDO necessarily. I need to check its sheets, if it has a bypass I may need to use it."

Not interested in using an LDO, let alone the best one ever developed for DAC use? How in the hell do you plan on powering this thing with cleaner power than 1uV noise without an LDO?

Then you go on attacking Hypex amps and power supplies that you never even heard. I ask what you heard, and won't even respond. You're talking about the DIY NC400 version that has a fixed buffer that can't be bypassed, and you probably have't even heard it.

So maybe have a look at what your presenting here, and try your hardest to see what the problem is.

Hypex used LPS's for years. It wasn't a business decision to ditch the LPS's. It was based 100% on performance criteria. Which is also the reason even most of the DIY guys who tried both ditched the LPS's as well.

 

[Blizzard]

Here are a few observations that I have had (listening.....so its real, not imagined). The Hypex modules, as every other thing on the planet has a sound.....and it is not totally transparent....nothing is. If you use a better fuse in a Hypex amp it will sound better, if you use better connectors it will sound better, if you damp the chassis and modules it will sound better, if you isolate the power supply from the output module it will sound better.....but here is the real kicker......if you change the output filter caps in the NC400 to my modified Wimas you get much, much better sound. This is according to everyone who has tried it....they heard the difference. I don't know what caps they are using on the NC500 but whatever the caps are and whatever the inductor is......affects the sound. I made my own toroidal litz wire output coils when I was making/selling UCD amps and the handmade toroidal coils beat the stock ones......there is no free lunch...everything makes a difference. However, I will say that a tweaked Hypex module with a great discrete circuit on the input would be hard to beat. But it is not perfect.....not now, not ever. If you put WA quantum dots on the power supply caps it will probably improve the sound...same with mounting a Pulse Gen ZX inside the box and also using Magic Tubes inside the box.....I have not tried these things in a Hypex Ncore amp but these things improve every other component I have tried them in and same with my customers.

For this $10K list I would add modding the Gustard and possibly making an LDR kit from Tortuga Audio for volume (may sound better than the digital volume in the Gustard). You can cut in half and hardwire one long interconnect directly to the LDRs so there is only one interconnect.....very trick! Other speakers worth considering: New Hawthorne Audio open baffle speaker with 2 servo 12s on the bottom, the Vapor Audio Stiff Breeze, the limited edition open baffle speaker from GR Research with servo subs. The Hawthorne uses an AMT down to 1500hz? and is 98db sensitive......the Vapor uses a Raal Ribbon, the GR research uses a custom high sensitivity B&G Neo 3 planar tweeter open baffle. BTW I think the graph you showed for the Mundorf kit is just the specs on the tweeter by itself.....not the measurements of the whole speaker....I could be wrong on this, but don't think so. I am sure the Mundorf would be nice.

https://www.hawthorneaudio.us//cata..._id=67&zenid=65c37917fc8ab7b8de902e4e9bbadbed

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=138878.0

http://www.vaporsound.com/speakers/stiff-breeze/

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=138009.0

I'm not gonna say any of your tweaks won't help things, but the tweaks are something people can decide to do after if the want to. Most people are scared of tweaks anyways. The point of this thread was to offer turn key finished products that are ready to go. The speaker may be DIY, but very easy DIY. Easier than putting together an Ikea dresser. And I offered to assemble if anyone didn't even want to do that.

Now if you start selling turn key modded units with warranty, maybe they will be a great contender for the list.

Yeah your right with the measurements just being the tweeter. Not sure why they don't provide the complete speaker measurements. I'm sure it won't be long before we see some. After all the Accuton engineers designed it, I'm sure they took some measurements.

Yes I know Vapor has some great value speakers too. Actually almost impossible to beat for the money. But I'm not a big fan of their customer service history, so I don't want to recommend them based on that alone. The Hawthorne's look very nice as well.

So far there's been lots of great value mini monitors shared on this thread, and I'm sure everyone would be happy with all of the choices. But I still think the Mundorf MA-30 takes the cake having heard them, and knowing how good they are. The parts in the Xover alone cost more than the complete speakers of most retail monitors that sell for around $3K. Price all the parts out from the Silver/gold kit at Madisound and see for yourself. The only area that is keeping it from being in the league of monitors in the $10000-$15000 dealer MSRP league is the cabinets. But better ones could easily be built. I'm so impressed by these I'm actually even thinking about building a no-compromise turn key version with stacked baltic birch cabinets built like a tank. I know the stacked baltic birch thing is being overdone, but it makes for a real solid cabinet.

 

[Ric Schultz]

The LDO about to be delivered I am sure meets its specs. However, what specs make good sound? Steve at Empirical Audio is really adamant about using his custom Hynes regulators because he thinks its the combo of low noise and super speed these regulators have that makes for the "analog like sound" he achieves with his DAC. Are these new LDOs fast? How fast? We will see whether this new regulator is the cat's meow or just another chip. I will A/B it with my discrete shunt regulators (super fast) and see which makes the best sound. I don't care if it is the best or not. But I surely would not believe anything anyone says about this chip (or any chip or anything) unless it has been subjected to rigorous listening tests (the only thing that matters.....the sound!!!).

 

[Blizzard]

The LDO about to be delivered I am sure meets its specs. However, what specs make good sound? Steve at Empirical Audio is really adamant about using his custom Hynes regulators because he thinks its the combo of low noise and super speed these regulators have that makes for the "analog like sound" he achieves with his DAC. Are these new LDOs fast? How fast? We will see whether this new regulator is the cat's meow or just another chip. I will A/B it with my discrete shunt regulators (super fast) and see which makes the best sound. I don't care if it is the best or not. But I surely would not believe anything anyone says about this chip (or any chip or anything) unless it has been subjected to rigorous listening tests (the only thing that matters.....the sound!!!).

They were developed to be the ultimate LDO for the sabre DAC's as well as simplify the design of the DAC. This will allow much higher performance out of much cheaper DAC's from the past.

These regulators are used to power the digital end of things. They are not for the output stage. The data sheet hasn't been made public yet.

 

[Blizzard]

interesting first post ....

Probably someone offering products that wouldn't have a hope in hell of coming near this system for double-triple the cost.

 

[Folsom]

*My posting a system here were intended for fun light hearted participation in the day-dream $10k system. I did not view this as a commercial endeavour so I was completely honest, including offerings that are not publicly searchable.

 

[mauidan]

Alternatives to the MA30s and amps:

http://www.pureaudioproject.com/product/trio10-mundorf-amt-open-baffle-speakers/

For cables, I'd recommend Audience Ohnos:

http://audience-av.com/cables/ohno.html

 

[Blizzard]

Alternatives to the MA30s and amps:

http://www.pureaudioproject.com/product/trio10-mundorf-amt-open-baffle-speakers/

For cables, I'd recommend Audience Ohnos:

http://audience-av.com/cables/ohno.html

Cool speaker design. Have you heard them? 10" is quite large for midrange reproduction. It would be interesting to see the off axis frequency response plots. Grant Fidelity who sells the MA-30 sells the bigger brother to it as well:

http://shop.grantfidelity.com/PureAudioProject-Trio15TB-Open-Baffle-Speakers-pair.html

 

[Blizzard]

*My posting a system here were intended for fun light hearted participation in the day-dream $10k system. I did not view this as a commercial endeavour so I was completely honest, including offerings that are not publicly searchable.

Once you have some solid data on what you're working on, let us know.

 

[Ric Schultz]

They were developed to be the ultimate LDO for the sabre DAC's as well as simplify the design of the DAC. This will allow much higher performance out of much cheaper DAC's from the past.

These regulators are used to power the digital end of things. They are not for the output stage. The data sheet hasn't been made public yet.[/QUOTE

These regulators are for the 3.3v supply. This is the analog part of the chip and includes the output stages inside the chip.....so you are wrong. In fact, there is one volt RMS analog signal coming out of the DAC....along with current.....you can use it either way (voltage out or current out). It is the most sensitive power supply for the chip. Here is where we will do our A/Bs with this regulator versus others.

 

[Blizzard]

They were developed to be the ultimate LDO for the sabre DAC's as well as simplify the design of the DAC. This will allow much higher performance out of much cheaper DAC's from the past.

These regulators are used to power the digital end of things. They are not for the output stage. The data sheet hasn't been made public yet.[/QUOTE

These regulators are for the 3.3v supply. This is the analog part of the chip and includes the output stages inside the chip.....so you are wrong. In fact, there is one volt RMS analog signal coming out of the DAC....along with current.....you can use it either way (voltage out or current out). It is the most sensitive power supply for the chip. Here is where we will do our A/Bs with this regulator versus others.

It's designed to power the chip which is a digital to analog chip. Digital goes in 1 end, analog out the other. I know what it's for.

I think anyone can figure this out by looking at the simple block diagram. Reading the product brief is helpful as well. Anyways this is the wrong thread for this discussion.

 

[Folsom]

*

 

[Blizzard]

*

The block diagram was the dumbed down version for the layman to understand what the LDO connects to. OEM's have the detailed data sheets.

 

[mauidan]

Cool speaker design. Have you heard them? 10" is quite large for midrange reproduction. It would be interesting to see the off axis frequency response plots. Grant Fidelity who sells the MA-30 sells the bigger brother to it as well:

http://shop.grantfidelity.com/PureAudioProject-Trio15TB-Open-Baffle-Speakers-pair.html

I haven't heard them but my friend has, here a review:

http://www.stereotimes.com/post/pure-audio-project-trio10-mundorfamt-loudspeakers/

 

[Blizzard]

I haven't heard them but my friend has, here a review:

http://www.stereotimes.com/post/pure-audio-project-trio10-mundorfamt-loudspeakers/

I can see them excelling in some areas, but weak and others. You can only do midrange so good from a 10" poly cone driver with a stamped steel basket. Off axis frequency response will be poor as well. I can imagine the dynamics would be great, and well as free from box resonances. But it really should have a dedicated mid. The bigger brother with the dedicated 7" full range, would likely be much more impressive.

 

[Elberoth]

So you are recommending a complete system, you haven't even heard ?

Interesting.

 

[Blizzard]

So you are recommending a complete system, you haven't even heard ?






Interesting.

If I did hear it, what difference would it make? I have heard the main components being the amps, speakers, server, and streamer. I've very confident in the DAC being killer based on all of the feedback from owners, and studying the layout of the boards.

The DAC won't have any problems what so ever connecting direct to the amps. The input stage on the amps is way oversized, so even a DAC with only 2v RMS output would be enough to drive them to full power, let alone the 4.6V rms of the X20.

The amps have a very unique attribute that no other amp on the market has. You can swap out the input buffer opamp's. Every opamp has a different sound signature, so you can tweak it to your exact tastes. You can also tweak the HQplayer settings to your tastes as well. Between these 2 options, you can achieve the exact "synergy" anyone's looking for.

Besides not much risk here. If you don't like the stuff, simply return it for a refund. But I highly doubt anyone who did buy this system would end up doing that.

Alternatively, plenty of choices in the $30-$40K range that would compare, that can be listened to before hand in a dealer showroom. Although they won't sound the same once in your home anyways.

 

[Blizzard]

Hi guys,

I was thinking, if I can get 10 people interested, I could build state of the art stacked Lativan birch cabinets for the Mundorf MA-30's. This is the only thing missing from taking these speakers to the level of the best of the best in the $10-15K region. Cost would be $1250 per pair, and I could do the assembly.

The standard MDF cabinet's Grant Fidelity sells cost $750 already. So the total cost would only be $500 more, and would come assembled. So this keeps the total system cost exactly the same as it is now because it included $500 for assembly.

So $3500 a pair for the Mundorf MA-30's, with the top of the line Silver/gold Xovers, WBT binding posts, and state of the art Latvian birch cabinets fully assembled.

Here's an example of the build quality I'm talking about. Every layer is tuned to a different frequency to cancel vibration. The inside of the cabinet is like a pyramid so there's no parallel wall to minimize standing waves. Threaded high quality stainless inserts are embedded into the layers of the plywood to fasten the drivers in. No cheap T-nuts, or wood screws into MDF here.