So according to you, when Valin endorses Magico he is an idiot, and when he criticize it he is a fraud?
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So according to you, when Valin endorses Magico he is an idiot, and when he criticize it he is a fraud?
So according to you, when Valin endorses Magico he is an idiot, and when he criticize it he is a fraud?
honestly, who cares what Valin thinks and writes... he probably needs an ear aid to hear the highs of the tweeter anyway...
I was in Munich in Magico showroom when Valin came and listened to the Q7. He sat for 2min on the very back, completely in the side corner. Worst place to judge any speaker. And then he left for the next room to listen to the S5 for 45min. After that, you see him writing online on how he didn't like the Q7, and how the S5 impressed him. How can you judge a speaker in such conditions? The guy has already a preconceived opinion before writing (he must be still pissed than Harley got the Q7 demo and not him, so he has to bitch), he doesn't make the effort of any decent reviewer to sit down, listen and analyze what he hears... From this day, I stopped reading anything he writes.
Everyone says that, but then flock to buy what he recommends. Raidho where around long before Magico, no one cared (rightly so, IMO), until he “discovered” them, once the flagship Magico went to Robert Harley and not him.
What does this comment have to do with CES 2015?
I was in the room at CES 2015 during the visit and you can check your "sources" to verify. I talked with Alon and others extensively about the M-Project drivers and the Q7mKII coming updates. We spent at LEAST 1 hour in the room and listened in the main seats.
I'm not commenting on the sound because that's a listener preference but the text written above leaves me scratching my head...
So according to you, when Valin endorses Magico he is an idiot, and when he criticize it he is a fraud?
Cannata, those are your words. I'm just a third party observer here, calling it as I see it... Valin is influential, whether you like him or not, and whether you agree with him or not. There are guys like Albert von Schweikert and Mark Levinson virtually begging him to review their gear in his blogs.... As a naturally occuring experiment, Magico and YG are both metal speakers and were started roughly at the same time. Imagine if he were pumping up YG all these years. Sure you and many prefer Magico to YG, while others prefer YG, but no one can honestly say that Magico would have the same level of popularity and sales if it weren't for Valin. (Ditto for Raidho. yet you can argue he has not been wearing out the shoe leather on mentioning Estelon as he has with Magico and Raidho.)
Anyway, if it weren't for Valin and Wolf sharing a similar sonic signature of thinner bass and spotlighting the upper midrange/ lower treble, Valin wouldn't have liked Magico as much as he does (did?). But now since he has been listening to Raidho for a few years, has his perception changed of the treble changed to match others who have said this about Magico all along? Most importantly, Valin is a fiction writer, also in the business of selling magazines. Nothing like a little controversy and suspense. It is after all an entertaining hobby
It is true. The technical term is appeal to authority. When people are confused, they seek an expert / authority to help them decide what to do. This is very well understood and documented in the psychology literature.
Caesar
When I see things like "thin" bass from Magico current line-up, I must sincerely question your listening preferences. Would you stop the Magico and YG-bashing for a little bit .. Please ?!? had JV been an MBL supporter would you find him so unappealing?. And you go on, according to your last post, audiophiles are a band of followers and the success of Magico is only due to JV. The speakers have no merits??? Come on Man.. a little bit of restraint will do your posts a lot of good.
When I see things like "thin" bass from Magico current line-up, I must sincerely question your listening preferences. Would you stop the Magico and YG-bashing for a little bit .. Please ?!? had JV been an MBL supporter would you find him so unappealing?
. And you go on, according to your last post, audiophiles are a band of followers and the success of Magico is only due to JV. The speakers have no merits??? Come on Man.. a little bit of restraint will do your posts a lot of good.
Can you point me out to a freq response of any current Magico product exhibiting this trait ?
Thank you !
Caesar
When I see things like "thin" bass from Magico current line-up, I must sincerely question your listening preferences. Would you stop the Magico and YG-bashing for a little bit .. Please ?!? had JV been an MBL supporter would you find him so unappealing?
Frantz,
I'm just a third party observer, calling things as I see things. Obviously not every audiophile buying a Magico buys it because of Valin's reviews, but let's just say that wolf is very lucky they share similar tastes. From a personal taste perspective, I can't stand the Q class, but the S class doesn't move me and doesn't bother me. YG, on the other hand, can make great music with certain amps, but not with others, and I prefer YG to Magico. And as for Valin, I believe he still is a fan of the MBL. But my tastes don't really matter. Most of the arguments b/w audiophiles are about taste and it's totally silly. I'm just observing human behavior, which is very fascinating.
Can't remember the last time I looked at any measurements. Just reporting subjective observations. By the way, whatever people say about Magico measurements, the sound/ design is a reflection of Wolf's taste. The reality is that Wolf-Valin do not like big bass.
That's interesting because I'm pretty certain that most readers of the comments you have contributed to the site would view those post as being much less a third party observer and more like a finger stirring the pot.
What makes you come to this conclusion?
Dre,
As you know, high end audio is a subjective hobby. What's wrong with having an opinion? Why should only the elites state their opinions? Furthermore, I have a deep background in economics and social psychology, so a lot of things I am saying are expressed through that lens, and my comments are backed by scientific research. Looking at this hobby from the perspective of an outsider is quite fun if you understand the patterns of human behavior.
As to Valin's taste in bass, he has always shied away from sub-woofers. I have been waiting for him to slap some subwoofers on the ML CLX, but good thing I haven't been holding my breath. He, himself, called Magico a "transparency to source" speaker, which I think is right on. So according to him, all "fat" bass is coloration.
By the way, I sense that you are friends with him, so I want to assure you that I have only editorial differences with him regarding putting "transparency to source" stuff in TAS, and have absolutely nothing personal against him as a person. He's a GIANT talent as a writer.
Cheers!
Ceasar,
There is absolutely nothing wrong with having an opinion. I encourage it more often than not. However, most of your posts are masked as third party observer but the context, in most cases, is anything but. As a reader, it would confuse me less to just state the opinion without trying to hold the third party observer shield as a get-out-of-being-called-on-comments card.
Regarding JV and bass, did you somehow miss the MBL 101 Extreme, JL Audio sub reviews? There is plenty more bass related comments I could state but lets just say there is more than enough evidence to refute the Valin do not like big bass claim you made (let alone Magico's high-priced subwoofer offerings). I'd be glad to discuss it with you in your hometown if I have time to do so at the end of April.
JV can speak for himself. As a student of passive observation of human behavior myself, I'm more interested in where the conclusions you write about individuals come from.
Dre
Dre,
There's like a 5-10 year gap between MBL Xtreme review and the JL audio review, which honestly surprised me because he never hooked up subs to the clx. I can comment only on what I see going on and the products that I hear with my own ears. Maybe we can discuss over a cup of coffee or over some shots of tequila sometime.
If you are interested in reading about human influence techniques, I would recommend the work of Robert Cialidini, the godfather of the field. He has a very popular book called Influence. He devotes a chapter to each scientifically proven technique in his book, but here are some examples (very briefly):
- reciprocity - People tend to return a favor, kind of like a dealer loaning items to you, and then you buying something from him in return
- social proof - in moments of confusion, people do what others around them are doing. Like guys buying a popular piece of gear, because they are not sure, but their friends and guys on forums have it. Then they can talk about it, and further connect with others...That's why blockbusters are so popular (movies and audio brands)
- commitment and consistency - once people take an action, it becomes a part of their identity and they keep consistently taking on the action
- liking - we are influenced by those people we like, so be careful of friendly, likable sales guys
- authority - when confused, people look to figures of authority to help decide for them
- scarcity - when something is rarely available, it must be good; those darn limited production runs in high end audio...
When used in combination, they are much more potent than on an individual basis
There is more stuff going on with any reviewer's experiences than what hits the pages of a web or print magazine. Just because you didn't read about subs on the CLX, doesn't mean big bass is out of the question. That was just one example. Much of the comments I see fall counter to the individuals I know personally and have met/spent time with. That's why these comments I read are sometimes confusing when they get web-rumor traction.
I'll take the coffee. I like to stay alert during conversations. I'm a better observer in those conditions.
Regarding influence...
I find it more interesting to observe the behavior of the influencer when the "technique" isn't working.
Dre
There are many opinions about Valin. He did write two excellent reviews about the Magico Mini and Mini 2. They introduced me to the brand and to this particular model. Intrigued, I went and heard a few demoes and eventually drove from Boston to Chicago to buy a pair. I sure am glad that I saw those two reviews and attribute my early interest in the speaker to JV. He is a very good writer, IMO, and when I met him, I thanked him for those reviews. He describes the speaker very much like the way it sounds in my system.
As an aside, his reviews of the AirTight PC-1 and PC-1 Supreme influenced my decision to buy those cartridges.
Regarding his opinion about bass: I think I read him write that he prefers less bass than inaccurate bass. So he would rather live with a speaker that is somewhat limited in bass extension/output to one that has lots of bass, but that doesn't sound like real music. At least that is how I interpret what he wrote.
As an aside, his reviews of the AirTight PC-1 and PC-1 Supreme influenced my decision to buy those cartridges.
Regarding his opinion about bass: I think I read him write that he prefers less bass than inaccurate bass. So he would rather live with a speaker that is somewhat limited in bass extension/output to one that has lots of bass, but that doesn't sound like real music. At least that is how I interpret what he wrote.
Your subjective observations are not reflected in neither measurements (which, in the case of speakers, can tell a lot), not in people experiences on this forum.
Coincidentally, I am finding that my own observations of the Magico M-Project seem to match what caesar describes as "thinner bass, spotlighting of the upper midrange/lower treble".
I am also a big fan of JV's writing. That man can has an uncanny way of eloquently describing how something sounds.
I am also a big fan of JV's writing. That man can has an uncanny way of eloquently describing how something sounds.
Elberoth,
Just calling it like I hear it. I'm not trying to convince you, and I'm OK with you disagreeing with me... In the end, it's all about how the music makes you feel.
But if someone dropped of a Q class speaker in your room and you were to compare it to your S class, I'm pretty sure you would agree with me.
The king of passive aggressive
I actually had the Q3, in my house for about a week (I own an S5). I hate to break it to you but when it comes to bass, the main difference between them was the quality of the bass, and not the quantity. In fact, the balance was quite similar. Some may mistake the overhang character of the S bass to a “fuller” bass, but it is simply "looser" sounding (it does go lower, however, which is nice). Once you “get” the sound of the Q3 bass, there is no question which is better, and I can assure you, you will agree with me as well
You simply need to educate yourself on the differences. It may take you more than just casual listening at shows.Similar threads
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