Magico S5

[LL21]

Not a chance in hell. The price is something in the $40K range. Worse than the absolute outlay is the fact that the cross over will worth $10K tops on the used market the moment I take it out of the box. As a rule of thumb, I take a maximum of 20% depreciation hit on stuff I buy, not 75%. I also don't have the space for an additional tower (which is how they are packaged). Finally, I don't like the idea of paying top dollar for ultra expensive cabinet work to house a crossover.

Hmmm...I see where you are coming from. if you were selling the crossover by itself the day after you opened the box, 75% depreciation or possibly more...but that is mainly because very few people own MM3s...that's a liquidity issue.

By contract, if you bought the crossover for say 25% off (30K)...then in truth you can sell your entire MM3 as a latest spec MM3...which means you might REVERSE some of the depreciation on the MM3s themselves because the money you put in there gets dragged upwards by the fact that they are now part of a latest spec set.

As for the extra space and cabinetry, I respect that those are your personal decisions. Was just thinking about the depreciation bit mainly.

In any event, you have made your choice to look elsewhere...good luck with that. Your MM3s are supposed to be quite good, so you might just need to spent quite a bit in any event to beat them...particularly if you are looking at new products where there is no depreciation advantage.

 

[edorr]

It is not a question of price. The S5, objectively will stand quite well against the MM3, and will surely disappear better (I am sorry, but in your room, I don't think you can even sit far enough for the MM3 drivers to integrate properly). Subjectively, if you are happy with this kind of set up in such a small room, why look for a smaller speaker? I doubt that the S5, or the TAD will do it for you.

What triggered my interest in getting something smaller / different is that up until 2 weeks ago I was not totally happy with the MM3s. Liked them but did not love them. However, switching to spectral amplification has changed that, and I now love them (or rather, I love the sound I am getting in my room). Secondly, I don't like them very much aesthetically. Too big, and I like a modern design look (loved my avalons). So the urgency to replace them is gone, and unless I find something sounding at least as good, better looking that I can afford, I may end up keeping them for years.

 

[edorr]

Hmmm...I see where you are coming from. if you were selling the crossover by itself the day after you opened the box, 75% depreciation or possibly more...but that is mainly because very few people own MM3s...that's a liquidity issue.

By contract, if you bought the crossover for say 25% off (30K)...then in truth you can sell your entire MM3 as a latest spec MM3...which means you might REVERSE some of the depreciation on the MM3s themselves because the money you put in there gets dragged upwards by the fact that they are now part of a latest spec set.

As for the extra space and cabinetry, I respect that those are your personal decisions. Was just thinking about the depreciation bit mainly.

In any event, you have made your choice to look elsewhere...good luck with that. Your MM3s are supposed to be quite good, so you might just need to spent quite a bit in any event to beat them...particularly if you are looking at new products where there is no depreciation advantage.

Even selling the combo, the economics of buying the crossover would be disastrous. I estimate I would get $25k for the speakers without x-over, and may be $40 with the crossover, so I'd lose $25k on the crossover. It is like getting a piece modded - you immediately lose 75% of the what you spend. I've been there. Never buy an esoteric piece for which there is no market; you'll lose your shirt or get stuck with it. Even if you buy at 30% of retail used yourself, you may end up unable to sell. Been there too. Sweet spot is high liquidity gear, 2 years old, for 50% of msrp. Use it a few years, and resell at zero loss if you want to upgrade or try something new. Sounds like economics trump sound quality for me. exactly opposite. The ONLY way I can afford the level of gear I own is through smart buying. If I did not religiously consider the economics I would own a far lower caliber system.

 

[MylesBAstor]

Even selling the combo, the economics of buying the crossover would be disastrous. I estimate I would get $25k for the speakers without x-over, and may be $40 with the crossover, so I'd lose $25k on the crossover. It is like getting a piece modded - you immediately lose 75% of the what you spend. I've been there. Never buy an esoteric piece for which there is no market; you'll lose your shirt or get stuck with it. Even if you buy at 30% of retail used yourself, you may end up unable to sell. Been there too. Sweet spot is high liquidity gear, 2 years old, for 50% of msrp. Use it a few years, and resell at zero loss if you want to upgrade or try something new. Sounds like economics trump sound quality for me. exactly opposite. The ONLY way I can afford the level of gear I own is through smart buying. If I did not religiously consider the economics I would own a far lower caliber system.

Up less you considered the EA3 to be your last speaker and wanted to get everything out of it including the front-end and amplification. All I know is that they were a speaker that I very strongly considered buying and could be very happy with them.

 

[edorr]

Up less you considered the EA3 to be your last speaker and wanted to get everything out of it including the front-end and amplification. All I know is that they were a speaker that I very strongly considered buying and could be very happy with them.

Clearly, I'm not a "last speaker" kinda guy. Also, if I ever end up moving I may not be able to accommodate this size speaker. Anyway, it is a moot point, because I do not have the physical space in my room for the X-over. See the pic; they are enormous.

http://www.evolutionacoustics.com/evolution-acoustics-launched-mmexact-line-of-loudspeakers/

 

[LL21]

Even selling the combo, the economics of buying the crossover would be disastrous. I estimate I would get $25k for the speakers without x-over, and may be $40 with the crossover, so I'd lose $25k on the crossover. It is like getting a piece modded - you immediately lose 75% of the what you spend. I've been there. Never buy an esoteric piece for which there is no market; you'll lose your shirt or get stuck with it. Even if you buy at 30% of retail used yourself, you may end up unable to sell. Been there too. Sweet spot is high liquidity gear, 2 years old, for 50% of msrp. Use it a few years, and resell at zero loss if you want to upgrade or try something new. Sounds like economics trump sound quality for me. exactly opposite. The ONLY way I can afford the level of gear I own is through smart buying. If I did not religiously consider the economics I would own a far lower caliber system.

I hear you and I am the same...it took me 8 years to assemble the system I had, and I was upgrading from things like a $50 Daewoo DVD player to my Zanden (which took 5 years to get both pieces). It has been a long long haul to do it this way, but by carefully buying at the right price, the few times I have managed to flip something (like Gryphon Antileon for Gryphon Colosseum...both second hand), I have actually flipped for more than I paid which was fun.

I know the exact % discount from retail I have paid for everything I have bought since 1993 when I got my first pair of speakers (in fact I even know I paid $83 for my first boom JVC boombox in 1986). And the only way to have this system for me...is to make the discount as big as possible!!!

 

[MylesBAstor]

Clearly, I'm not a "last speaker" kinda guy. Also, if I ever end up moving I may not be able to accommodate this size speaker. Anyway, it is a moot point, because I do not have the physical space in my room for the X-over. See the pic; they are enormous.

http://www.evolutionacoustics.com/evolution-acoustics-launched-mmexact-line-of-loudspeakers/

Yeah that's big. I have the same space issue too.

 

[LL21]

Clearly, I'm not a "last speaker" kinda guy. Also, if I ever end up moving I may not be able to accommodate this size speaker. Anyway, it is a moot point, because I do not have the physical space in my room for the X-over. See the pic; they are enormous.

http://www.evolutionacoustics.com/evolution-acoustics-launched-mmexact-line-of-loudspeakers/

Wow...that's enormous! That's like an entire floorstanding speaker!

 

[Bodhi]

The ONLY way I can afford the level of gear I own is through smart buying. If I did not religiously consider the economics I would own a far lower caliber system.

Edorr, do you have a system thread up or some photos online you can link into? Sounds like you have a pretty cool system

 

[edorr]

Edorr, do you have a system thread up or some photos online you can link into? Sounds like you have a pretty cool system

http://cgim.audiogon.com/i/vs/s/f/1364166764.jpg

This pic is no longer current. My MSB Dac had been replaced by PS Audio DirectStream (>95% of the performance for 20% of the price). I am getting two more PS audio directstreams for my MCH channel (running lynx card on MCH/Video server straight into a stack of three DACs). Second CAPS 3 server runs USB into DirectStream. P5s have been replaced by Shunyata Triton/Typhon (a lateral move in my estimation - OK shoot me). The Ref 5SE preamp has been replaced by Spectral DMC 30SS series 2, and the Jungson by Spectral DAM 360 series 2. Transparent cabling is now MIT, because of Spectral. In total these changes were cash flow neutral, and I get much better sound. Will update when the two additional directstream dacs are in - adding additional shelf in the rack - will just about fit.

 

[cannata]

What triggered my interest in getting something smaller / different is that up until 2 weeks ago I was not totally happy with the MM3s. Liked them but did not love them. However, switching to spectral amplification has changed that, and I now love them (or rather, I love the sound I am getting in my room). Secondly, I don't like them very much aesthetically. Too big, and I like a modern design look (loved my avalons). So the urgency to replace them is gone, and unless I find something sounding at least as good, better looking that I can afford, I may end up keeping them for years.

Then wait till you hear the S5 on Spectral gear

 

[jap]

http://cgim.audiogon.com/i/vs/s/f/1364166764.jpg

This pic is no longer current. My MSB Dac had been replaced by PS Audio DirectStream (>95% of the performance for 20% of the price). I am getting two more PS audio directstreams for my MCH channel (running lynx card on MCH/Video server straight into a stack of three DACs). Second CAPS 3 server runs USB into DirectStream. P5s have been replaced by Shunyata Triton/Typhon (a lateral move in my estimation - OK shoot me). The Ref 5SE preamp has been replaced by Spectral DMC 30SS series 2, and the Jungson by Spectral DAM 360 series 2. Transparent cabling is now MIT, because of Spectral. In total these changes were cash flow neutral, and I get much better sound. Will update when the two additional directstream dacs are in - adding additional shelf in the rack - will just about fit.

With all the hype about SR PLCs, I appreciate this info.

 

[Bodhi]

http://cgim.audiogon.com/i/vs/s/f/1364166764.jpg

This pic is no longer current. My MSB Dac had been replaced by PS Audio DirectStream (>95% of the performance for 20% of the price). I am getting two more PS audio directstreams for my MCH channel (running lynx card on MCH/Video server straight into a stack of three DACs). Second CAPS 3 server runs USB into DirectStream. P5s have been replaced by Shunyata Triton/Typhon (a lateral move in my estimation - OK shoot me). The Ref 5SE preamp has been replaced by Spectral DMC 30SS series 2, and the Jungson by Spectral DAM 360 series 2. Transparent cabling is now MIT, because of Spectral. In total these changes were cash flow neutral, and I get much better sound. Will update when the two additional directstream dacs are in - adding additional shelf in the rack - will just about fit.

Edorr, i've heard very good things about the PS Audio Direct Stream dac. It certainly represents great value, but do you need 3 dacs? If one dac have enough inputs for your needs you might be able to order one & have additional inputs specified pre-order. My goal is to reduce my box count as much as possible and keep my system simple and balanced, focusing on quality over quantity & getting the best high end 'bang for my buck'. I plan to add a separate dac down the track, but one will be enough.

Spectral make nice gear, though with the exception of adding a neutral tube pre such as the Ref 5SE to a ss power amp(s), I don't advocate mixing different brand ss amps as that can cause impedance issues and affect synergy. Also, if you add a 3rd shelf, where will you place your center channel? When your system changes are done, i'd be interested to have a look. Be sure to add a signature to your profile with a link to your system

 

[edorr]

Edorr, i've heard very good things about the PS Audio Direct Stream dac. It certainly represents great bang for the buck, but do you need 3 dacs? If one dac have enough inputs for your needs you might be able to order one & have additional inputs specified pre-order. I am trying to reduce my box count as much as possible & keep my system simple and balanced. I plan to add a separate dac down the track, but one will be enough. Spectral make nice gear, though with the exception of adding a neutral tube pre such as the Ref 5SE to ss power amps, I don't advocate mixing different brand ss pre & power amps as that can cause impedance issues and affect synergy. Also, if you add a 3rd shelf, where will you place your center channel?

When your system changes are done, be sure to add a signature to your profile with a link to your system

I need three for my multi channel system. I have my sacd and movies ripped on an HTPC with an 8 channel lynx card. For my 5.0 system I need three two channel dacs. I would have been happy to keep my two nad m51 s for surrounds and center channel, but the ps audio has buffering and a processing delay so I need three to keep my channels in synch in multi channel playback mode.

 

[rockitman]

http://cgim.audiogon.com/i/vs/s/f/1364166764.jpg

This pic is no longer current. My MSB Dac had been replaced by PS Audio DirectStream (>95% of the performance for 20% of the price).

Is it that good ? how much better does it sound than the MK2 Perfect Wav it replaced ? I have been waiting for more reviews before I upgrade my PW Mk2 dac.

 

[edorr]

Is it that good ? how much better does it sound than the MK2 Perfect Wav it replaced ? I have been waiting for more reviews before I upgrade my PW Mk2 dac.

I replaced my PWD mk II with an emm labs dac2x, which was a lot better. Then the MSB trounced the emm labs. I found the direct stream to be in the same league as the MSB, so by one would conclude the direct stream is very substantially better than the PWD MK II

 

[rockitman]

I replaced my PWD mk II with an emm labs dac2x, which was a lot better. Then the MSB trounced the emm labs. I found the direct stream to be in the same league as the MSB, so by one would conclude the direct stream is very substantially better than the PWD MK II

Good to know. Thanks.

 

[mauidan]

Is it that good ? how much better does it sound than the MK2 Perfect Wav it replaced ? I have been waiting for more reviews before I upgrade my PW Mk2 dac.

Recent review:
http://www.audiostream.com/content/ps-audio-directstream-dac

 

[edorr]

Recent review:
http://www.audiostream.com/content/ps-audio-directstream-dac

I suspect the difference between the current crop of top of the line four figure DACs and the cream of the crop five figure DACs has narrowed to the point that only for those with no financial resource constraints it makes sense to own the latter. For all others, far more bang for the buck can be achieved deploying the funds elsewhere.

 

[scouter]

Finally had a chance to hear a pair of S5s (with VAC electronics). Big disappointments. Having been duly impressed with bass of the S3 at Axpona, the S5 in a bigger room (with lots of adjacent open space) produced far less of it. Mid's and highs did not do anything for me either, and overall not very musical or involving at all. I am getting much better sounds from my Evolution Acoustics MM3s in my own room. So I heard the Alexia's and S5s as potential contenders to replace the the MM3s and neither one made the cut. Of course others have other experience and report Magico and Wilson leaving the MM3s in the dust. Without hearing it myself I'm not going near these speakers. Next on the list is hearing the TAD Reference.

A trip to Overture or Goodwins with the S5s being driven by your Spectral gear (their's in house) should allay any fears of poor sound. My Spectral 15pre w/ 260, driving the S5s, listening to Lorde - oh yeah, they play the bass quite nicely, thank you.