Shoot out at the OK corral!

[DaveyF]

Hey DaveyF, who knew a fun and light hearted comparison would turn into an inquisition...lol..

So very true, Andre

Here's my synopsis of what I heard with your LS50's in my system: IMO, the speakers are very clean and fairly extended from probably 70Hz and up. I noticed a little "dryness" overall and a little depth restriction. I was pleased to say that I did not hear the cabinets contribute to the sound or any "ringing" of the tweeter. Dynamic nuance was well taken care of and I did not get the feeling that the speaker was omitting much if anything in the range that it is comfortable performing in. If I were to use an analogy in the automotive world, I would say the little Kef's are very much like a friend's new Fiat Abarth 500. They have a certain get up and go and can make some nice sounds.
For the money, they are hard to beat. If the little KEF 's were at my max budget, I would place them as number one on my list....OTOH, IF my budget could stretch up to $5K or above, then as you correctly stated( IMHO) there are now numerous alternatives.

 

[Andre Marc]

So very true, Andre

Here's my synopsis of what I heard with your LS50's in my system: IMO, the speakers are very clean and fairly extended from probably 70Hz and up. I noticed a little "dryness" overall and a little depth restriction. I was pleased to say that I did not hear the cabinets contribute to the sound or any "ringing" of the tweeter. Dynamic nuance was well taken care of and I did not get the feeling that the speaker was omitting much if anything in the range that it is comfortable performing in. If I were to use an analogy in the automotive world, I would say the little Kef's are very much like a friend's new Fiat Abarth 500. They have a certain get up and go and can make some nice sounds.
For the money, they are hard to beat. If the little KEF 's were at my max budget, I would place them as number one on my list....OTOH, IF my budget could stretch up to $5K or above, then as you correctly stated( IMHO) there are now numerous alternatives.

I agree the cabinet construction is amazing. No enclosure sound.

In reference to the "dryness" you heard. I agree, but only by comparing them was this obvious. Vocals were so much "wetter" and hall ambience was significantly more apparent through the Sonus Faber.

But the LS50 was pretty neat on Miles's trumpet and on Ian Anderson's flute.

 

[Bill Hart]

Guys, in fairness, you chose to post the comparison on a public website, so it isn't beyond the realm of possibility that you would get questions, comments and some criticism. No one has to be snarky. If the point is to advance the learning curve, there are ways to do that. For example, and you may thinking I'm simply carping, but to place these two different speakers in exactly the same position as the SF is not necessarily a fair test of what the KEF might be able to do- to optimize the latter's performance. I get that you were having fun. And maybe the preface to this made it clear that you were not purporting to make this a 'definitive' shoot-out, just a casual comparison, which is cool by me. I have no axe to grind here, and have no intention of buying either speaker- but comments, legitimate criticism and questions about methodology are all fair game.

 

[Andre Marc]

Guys, in fairness, you chose to post the comparison on a public website, so it isn't beyond the realm of possibility that you would get questions, comments and some criticism. No one has to be snarky. If the point is to advance the learning curve, there are ways to do that. For example, and you may thinking I'm simply carping, but to place these two different speakers in exactly the same position as the SF is not necessarily a fair test of what the KEF might be able to do- to optimize the latter's performance. I get that you were having fun. And maybe the preface to this made it clear that you were not purporting to make this a 'definitive' shoot-out, just a casual comparison, which is cool by me. I have no axe to grind here, and have no intention of buying either speaker- but comments, legitimate criticism and questions about methodology are all fair game.

Hi Bill:

Fair enough, nice post. I don't think DaveyF or I mind questions, comments, OR criticism.

Some posts however, displayed a distinct passive aggressive and accusatory flavor which are puzzling to me.

By the way, for the record, I suggested we toe in the LS50s initially but I felt that the center image was spectacular, and we left well enough alone.

Lastly, I left very open minded about the use if a sub with the KEFs, where I previously had considered it a non starter.

 

[Bill Hart]

Hi Bill:

Fair enough, nice post. I don't think DaveyF or I mind questions, comments, OR criticism.

Some posts however, displayed a distinct passive aggressive and accusatory flavor which are puzzling to me.

By the way, for the record, I suggested we toe in the LS50s initially but I felt that the center image was spectacular, and we left well enough alone.

Lastly, I left very open minded about the use if a sub with the KEFs, where I previously had considered it a non starter.

Appreciate the response, Andre.
Best,

 

[DaveyF]

Hi Bill:

Fair enough, nice post. I don't think DaveyF or I mind questions, comments, OR criticism.

Some posts however, displayed a distinct passive aggressive and accusatory flavor which are puzzling to me.

By the way, for the record, I suggested we toe in the LS50s initially but I felt that the center image was spectacular, and we left well enough alone.

Lastly, I left very open minded about the use if a sub with the KEFs, where I previously had considered it a non starter.

+1

 

[microstrip]

Hey DaveyF, who knew a fun and light hearted comparison would turn into an inquisition...lol..

I think that the main problem is that you presented it as a comparison and not as fun afternoon. Comparing a speaker to a much more expensive and better one in the conditions you exposed and afterwards making comments on value for money is not the best way of presenting your fun.

Although I enjoy reading people experiences and reports, I felt I should say your methodology was, IMHO, flawed. We are in open forum, everyone is entitled to have his opinion.

 

[TBone]

I think that the main problem is that you presented it as a comparison and not as fun afternoon. Comparing a speaker to a much more expensive and better one in the conditions you exposed and afterwards making comments on value for money is not the best way of presenting your fun.

Although I enjoy reading people experiences and reports, I felt I should say your methodology was, IMHO, flawed. We are in open forum, everyone is entitled to have his opinion.

Well, consider the opening salvo ...

"Yesterday, I had the great pleasure of welcoming fellow member and a'phile Andre Marc to my home. We had decided to do a shoot out ( ok, ( ok corral, pun) more like an AB test) between his pair of new KEF LS50's and my pair of SF GH's."

Sounds like fun to me ...

I thought the methodology was clearly outlined ... seemingly a relatively simple comparison; a scenario that's been played out in many audiophile homes over time. Home based issues and biases are always a concern with such comparisons, but in this case, at no point did I get the feeling that it had an agenda, or intention to prop or diminish one product in comparison over an another.

I've been in this situation many times before, and "methodology" can always be questioned within these type scenarios ...

tb1

 

[TBone]

Marc ... you could bring any device for comparison to my home any time you desire. I would welcome such "fun", and more importantly, learning experience. I'd only ask you leave any agenda at the door, which I know wouldn't be an issue. Methodology only matters if some definitive conclusion was the intent, and we both know that comparing equipment in such fashion, ESPECIALLY SPEAKERS - under only 1 roof in a limited demo - is not remotely "definitive".

That said, if the drivers are actually made of manure, perhaps we'll just horse around instead.

tb2

 

[Andre Marc]

I think that the main problem is that you presented it as a comparison and not as fun afternoon. Comparing a speaker to a much more expensive and better one in the conditions you exposed and afterwards making comments on value for money is not the best way of presenting your fun.

Although I enjoy reading people experiences and reports, I felt I should say your methodology was, IMHO, flawed. We are in open forum, everyone is entitled to have his opinion.

"Problem"? What problem? Although I value many of your contributions here, you really do suck the fun out of this hobby...and it IS a hobby. We are not curing cancer. Relax.

 

[Andre Marc]

Well, consider the opening salvo ...

"Yesterday, I had the great pleasure of welcoming fellow member and a'phile Andre Marc to my home. We had decided to do a shoot out ( ok, ( ok corral, pun) more like an AB test) between his pair of new KEF LS50's and my pair of SF GH's."

Sounds like fun to me ...

I thought the methodology was clearly outlined ... seemingly a relatively simple comparison; a scenario that's been played out in many audiophile homes over time. Home based issues and biases are always a concern with such comparisons, but in this case, at no point did I get the feeling that it had an agenda, or intention to prop or diminish one product in comparison over an another.

I've been in this situation many times before, and "methodology" can always be questioned within these type scenarios ...

tb1

TBone! Thank you for being the enlightened voice of reason here. Sheesh.

 

[TBone]

TBone! Thank you for being the enlightened voice of reason here.

Marc, honestly ... please don't let this petty crap hold you back from doing such comparisons (and posting 'em here) in the future. These post make for interesting reading, despite the negativity here. In my estimation, this hobby requires far more hands-on / in-house comparisons - which (I know, trust me) does require a considerable amount of time and effort. These "comparisons" are not necessarily easy, often "work" is involved ... especially with heavier equipment.

Hell, without the "fun" part ... there really is no point to this entire process. If one wishes to question "methodologies", that's fine, but it should be done respectfully, and in context to the situation & provisions at hand.

tb1

 

[DaveyF]

Marc, honestly ... please don't let this petty crap hold you back from doing such comparisons (and posting 'em here) in the future. These post make for interesting reading, despite the negativity here. In my estimation, this hobby requires far more hands-on / in-house comparisons - which (I know, trust me) does require a considerable amount of time and effort. These "comparisons" are not necessarily easy, often "work" is involved ... especially with heavier equipment.

Hell, without the "fun" part ... there really is no point to this entire process. If one wishes to question "methodologies", that's fine, but it should be done respectfully, and in context to the situation & provisions at hand.

tb1

Thank you Tbone, as Andre eloquently stated above, I appreciate you being the enlightened voice of reason here. Micro, neither Andre or I had any "hidden" agenda here in this exercise. I had not previously heard the KEF LS50's and since Andre had a pair on hand, I was curious to hear them. Andre was kind enough to bring them over to my house for a listen in my system. We both wanted to be sure that they sounded their best and so we set them up to our best ability. As I stated before, I thought they sounded impressive. Believe me when I tell you this, I have had many other a'phile friends bring over speakers and the result was far less than impressive! BTW, am I mistaken in thinking that whenever you ( micro) hear a speaker in a certain set-up that you tend to compare it to others that you have experience with. I know that's what I tend to do. Again, did we have an agenda ...NO, OTOH do some of the posters here have an agenda?? It certainly looks that way to me.

 

[amirm]

Marc, honestly ... please don't let this petty crap hold you back from doing such comparisons (and posting 'em here) in the future. These post make for interesting reading, despite the negativity here. In my estimation, this hobby requires far more hands-on / in-house comparisons - which (I know, trust me) does require a considerable amount of time and effort. These "comparisons" are not necessarily easy, often "work" is involved ... especially with heavier equipment.

Hell, without the "fun" part ... there really is no point to this entire process. If one wishes to question "methodologies", that's fine, but it should be done respectfully, and in context to the situation & provisions at hand.

tb1

Ditto.

 

[MadFloyd]

Marc, honestly ... please don't let this petty crap hold you back from doing such comparisons (and posting 'em here) in the future. These post make for interesting reading, despite the negativity here. In my estimation, this hobby requires far more hands-on / in-house comparisons - which (I know, trust me) does require a considerable amount of time and effort. These "comparisons" are not necessarily easy, often "work" is involved ... especially with heavier equipment.

Hell, without the "fun" part ... there really is no point to this entire process. If one wishes to question "methodologies", that's fine, but it should be done respectfully, and in context to the situation & provisions at hand.

tb1

+1

 

[treitz3]

Thank you, Mr. TBone. Well said.

Tom

 

[mep]

Which DAC do you have, Mark?

Mytek Stereo 192 mastering version.

 

[mep]

Hi Bill:

Fair enough, nice post. I don't think DaveyF or I mind questions, comments, OR criticism.

Some posts however, displayed a distinct passive aggressive and accusatory flavor which are puzzling to me.

So how do we label the response you gave to Micro when he commented on your shootout?

Although I value many of your contributions here, you really do suck the fun out of this hobby...and it IS a hobby.

Now let's get back to that part about you not minding criticism. It's apparent from your above response to Micro that you are not really open to criticism and will lash out in response.

 

[microstrip]

(...) Micro, neither Andre or I had any "hidden" agenda here in this exercise. I had not previously heard the KEF LS50's and since Andre had a pair on hand, I was curious to hear them. Andre was kind enough to bring them over to my house for a listen in my system. We both wanted to be sure that they sounded their best and so we set them up to our best ability. As I stated before, I thought they sounded impressive. Believe me when I tell you this, I have had many other a'phile friends bring over speakers and the result was far less than impressive! BTW, am I mistaken in thinking that whenever you ( micro) hear a speaker in a certain set-up that you tend to compare it to others that you have experience with. I know that's what I tend to do. Again, did we have an agenda ...NO, OTOH do some of the posters here have an agenda?? It certainly looks that way to me.

Andre,

I am sure you did not have an agenda - otherwise I would not have entered the debate. And I do not consider that anyone in this forum has such a thing - only sometimes preferences that are almost passions. But having lived with Sonus Faber Guarnieri Homage for several years IMHO they were misrepresented in this so called "comparison". And yes, you are mistaken - when I listen to a new speaker in an unknown system I do not compare speakers, I only compare systems. For example, having lived with a Krell KSA250 for long, I consider that Mark opinions on the LS50 are strongly affected by this partnering, as this fabulous amplification has a characteristic capability of making small speakers sounding bigger.

As you perhaps have noticed I valuate a lot synergy, and can not consider that component hazardous swapping is a fair way of appreciating equipment. Sorry, but it is my opinion.

 

[Andre Marc]

Andre,

I am sure you did not have an agenda - otherwise I would not have entered the debate. And I do not consider that anyone in this forum has such a thing - only sometimes preferences that are almost passions. But having lived with Sonus Faber Guarnieri Homage for several years IMHO they were misrepresented in this so called "comparison". And yes, you are mistaken - when I listen to a new speaker in an unknown system I do not compare speakers, I only compare systems. For example, having lived with a Krell KSA250 for long, I consider that Mark opinions on the LS50 are strongly affected by this partnering, as this fabulous amplification has a characteristic capability of making small speakers sounding bigger.

As you perhaps have noticed I valuate a lot synergy, and can not consider that component hazardous swapping is a fair way of appreciating equipment. Sorry, but it is my opinion.

Micro, can you please elaborate on how the SF GH was misrepresented? I am very curious as to what you mean by this.

For the record, I think you use a far more intellectual approach then many here. Still valid, there is no right or wrong.
I simply cannot enjoy this hobby with so many rules and over thinking. But again, your point of view is always appreciated,
but you seem to think we were conducting a clinical trial.

It was two guys, two speakers and lots of music.