Shoot out at the OK corral!

[Andre Marc]

I'm not trying to play "gotcha" either, I'm just looking for some truth.

Like John Lennon?? We all stand behind your valiant effort to expose the truth. Please report back on your
fact-finding mission. We wait with bated breath for you to file your report.

 

[mep]

I do know that you had your subs well prior to purchasing the KEFs. That is understood.

You make ALOT of assumptions my friend. Davey does have the dedicated stands for the GH. When we placed the KEFs on them
the driver was EXACTLY at ear height. Perfect. The GH are not much bigger than the LS50s.

What can you buy for $3500? Harbeth Compact 7ES3, three different superb Spendor models. A KEF R700, with a UniQ driver,
Several excellent Proac models, Marting Logan ESLs, and dozens and dozens more of every flavor under the sun.

Andre-A 39" speaker stand is not common and is much taller than common speaker stands. In a small room sitting in the near field, it would seem like a 39" stand could be an issue. I will take your word that whatever listening chairs you were using had the center of the speakers at ear height.

Somehow I doubt that there are dozens and dozens of speakers in the $3500 price range that will outperform the LS50s in combination with at least one high quality sub. And I mean in terms of overall purity of sound, balance, and lack of cabinet colorations that muddy up the sound.

 

[Andre Marc]

Andre-A 39" speaker stand is not common and is much taller than common speaker stands. In a small room sitting in the near field, it would seem like a 39" stand could be an issue. I will take your word that whatever listening chairs you were using had the center of the speakers at ear height.

Somehow I doubt that there are dozens and dozens of speakers in the $3500 price range that will outperform the LS50s in combination with at least one high quality sub. And I mean in terms of overall purity of sound, balance, and lack of cabinet colorations that muddy up the sound.

Truthfully, DaveyF will have to verify the height of the stands, I have no idea. I did not measure them. I was there to listen to tunes.

The driver was at ear level for me, for sure.

There surely are dozens of fantastic speakers at $3500. Whether anyone will prefer them to the LS50 and a $1000+ sub is anyone's guess. I have a KEF R500 coming in for review...so we shall see.

 

[TBone]

IIRC, the 11s3 was the player I auditioned.

There are no better digital versions than the Bob Dylan, Elton John, Rolling Stones, Moody Blues, and John Coltane true DSD SACDs.

My experiences differ ... the Dylan / Stones SACDs I purchased were sonically outmatched in comparison to my other sources. A direct comparison to my turntable made those SACDs instantly redundant.

It plays CDs, SACDs, and has three digital inputs that decode 192 Khz PCM and DSD, via the USB input.

Nice, but still not my cup of tea ... (at this point you must be thinking) ... you can lead a horse to water ... but I'll be looking to a Linux based computer solution for my eventual hi-rez needs.

tb1

 

[rbbert]

Understood. For me there are too many SACDs that are the definitive digital versions. There are no better digital versions than the
Bob Dylan, Elton John, Rolling Stones, Moody Blues, and John Coltane true DSD SACDs.

I suggest you check out the new Marantz SA-14S1 SACD player/DSD/PMC DAC.

It plays CDs, SACDs, and has three digital inputs that decode 192 Khz PCM and DSD, via the USB input.

http://us.marantz.com/us/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?CatId=ReferenceSeries&ProductId=SA14S1

You want it..you got it.

To be fair, none of those SACD's you mention are "true" DSD, they are all analog tape > DSD. Doesn't mean I don't love them, though.

And an (admittedly more expensive) alternative to the Marantz mentioned is a Modwright Oppo 105, which also has a bit more flexibility.

 

[Andre Marc]

To be fair, none of those SACD's you mention are "true" DSD, they are all analog tape > DSD. Doesn't mean I don't love them, though.

And an (admittedly more expensive) alternative to the Marantz mentioned is a Modwright Oppo 105, which also has a bit more flexibility.

Sorry I should have been more specific. I consider "true DSD" to be not only native DSD recordings, of which there are zero I am interested in, but ALSO Analog to DSD with NO PCM stage.

I have not had the pleasure of hearing a modded Oppo. I have a standard 105 in. It is terrific, but a grade down from Marantz Reference.

 

[rbbert]

Andre, I think you mean LS50 and $2000 sub.

T-bone, AFAIK nothing about a Linux-based system precludes using those players as DACs, but if you prefer LP versions of the Stones to the all the SACD's I doubt any existing digital music system, regardless of price or format, is likely to satisfy you.

 

[Andre Marc]

Andre, I think you mean LS50 and $2000 sub.

T-bone, AFAIK nothing about a Linux-based system precludes using those players as DACs, but if you prefer LP versions of the Stones to the all the SACD's I doubt any existing digital music system, regardless of price or format, is likely to satisfy you.

Yes, sorry! Correct!

 

[Andre Marc]

IIRC, the 11s3 was the player I auditioned.



My experiences differ ... the Dylan / Stones SACDs I purchased were sonically outmatched in comparison to my other sources. A direct comparison to my turntable made those SACDs instantly redundant.



Nice, but still not my cup of tea ... (at this point you must be thinking) ... you can lead a horse to water ... but I'll be looking to a Linux based computer solution for my eventual hi-rez needs.

tb1

Then I reiterate what rbbert says...it is likely digital is really not for you if you think the Stones SACDs were bettered. All good.

Secondly, yes, I can lead a horse to water but....

 

[TBone]

And an (admittedly more expensive) alternative to the Marantz mentioned is a Modwright Oppo 105, which also has a bit more flexibility.

Something I did consider (the 105) ... since my system is now part & parcel of a HT solution. That said, trying to get my hands on a 105 - strictly for audition - has proved fruitless.

tb1

 

[mep]

Like John Lennon?? We all stand behind your valiant effort to expose the truth. Please report back on your
fact-finding mission. We wait with bated breath for you to file your report.

I'm not trying to expose anything here Andre. I was told that Martin Colloms didn't know what he was talking about with regards to what drivers he says the GH speakers use. Really, do you think it matters to me whether they use the Dynaudio Esotar or Esotec tweeter?? Ditto for the woofers. Davey felt the need to tell me I was wrong which in reality means MC was wrong. Sometimes certain people have a know-it-all condescending attitude that is on constant display including their little winky emoticons which are used to reinforce their belief in themselves. So now that somebody decided it was a big deal on what drivers are inside the GH speakers and made a point to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about, I'm interested to know if MC really had no idea what he was talking about when he wrote the original review.

 

[rbbert]

Sorry I should have been more specific. I consider "true DSD" to be not only native DSD recordings, of which there are zero I am interested in, but ALSO Analog to DSD with NO PCM stage.

I have not had the pleasure of hearing a modded Oppo. I have a standard 105 in. It is terrific, but a grade down from Marantz Reference.

I haven't heard a standard 105 or that Marantz, but I do have a standard 95 and a Modwright SS 95 and have heard (briefly, not extended listening) the SA11s3 mentioned (which I think is a few steps up from the 1451, based on others' opinions). The fully outfitted Modwright is in another league from either of my 95's and at least competitive with the SA11s3 (in price as well as performance) on CD and SACD.

 

[Andre Marc]

I haven't heard a standard 105 or that Marantz, but I do have a standard 95 and a Modwright SS 95 and have heard (briefly, not extended listening) the SA11s3 mentioned (which I think is a few steps up from the 1451, based on others' opinions). The fully outfitted Modwright is in another league from either of my 95's and at least competitive with the SA11s3 (in price as well as performance) on CD and SACD.

I don't doubt in regards to the mods. I have heard nothing but great things about Modwrights's work.

I believe the SA-11S3 is a truly exceptional player, and given its $3500 price point, will be sniffed at by those who dabble is 5 figures.

 

[Andre Marc]

I'm not trying to expose anything here Andre. I was told that Martin Colloms didn't know what he was talking about with regards to what drivers he says the GH speakers use. Really, do you think it matters to me whether they use the Dynaudio Esotar or Esotec tweeter?? Ditto for the woofers. Davey felt the need to tell me I was wrong which in reality means MC was wrong. Sometimes certain people have a know-it-all condescending attitude that is on constant display including their little winky emoticons which are used to reinforce their belief in themselves. So now that somebody decided it was a big deal on what drivers are inside the GH speakers and made a point to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about, I'm interested to know if MC really had no idea what he was talking about when he wrote the original review.

I would suggest moving on..........

Enjoying the the my In Search Of the Lost Chord SACD to no end now...magical music.

 

[rbbert]

...I'm interested to know if MC really had no idea what he was talking about when he wrote the original review.

I'm with you on this, but perhaps it should have its own topic thread?

 

[TBone]

Andre, I think you mean LS50 and $2000 sub.

T-bone, AFAIK nothing about a Linux-based system precludes using those players as DACs, but if you prefer LP versions of the Stones to the all the SACD's I doubt any existing digital music system, regardless of price or format, is likely to satisfy you.

Agree, but here's the kicker ... I recorded some of those cuts from LP to CDR ... and they proved better in the same way the LP did. The high frequencies of those SACDs seemed constricted, compressed and ended up "screaming" instead of singing - during higher gain.

To be fair, the player I used at that time was the 777 which certainly wasn't my cup of tea (one of the worst digital noise floors I've ever heard, at any price). That said, it didn't sound consistently bright on all disks, CD or SACD. In fact, some DSD (and even some CDs) material was impressive.

The best SACD player I've had within my system, bar none, was the Linn Akurate. That said, I very much appreciate the unique sound of Linn digital so I'm biased. I nearly purchased the unit ... until I realized Linn was soon to discontinue all optical disk players.

tb1

 

[rbbert]

I don't doubt in regards to the mods. I have heard nothing but great things about Modwrights's work.

I believe the SA-11S3 is a truly exceptional player, and given its $3500 price point, will be sniffed at by those who dabble is 5 figures.

And unfortunately you won't get the Modwright Oppo for that either (more like $4300-4400, plus whatever tubes you want to roll)

 

[Andre Marc]

I'm with you on this, but perhaps it should have its own topic thread?

Yes it should. I don't see how a fun, light hearted comparison of two really good speakers turned into a debate
about drivers. I don't care if the drivers were made of horse manure. The speakers sounded superb.

 

[TBone]

Davey felt the need to tell me I was wrong which in reality means MC was wrong. Sometimes certain people have a know-it-all condescending attitude that is on constant display including their little winky emoticons which are used to reinforce their belief in themselves.

how ironic ...

 

[Andre Marc]

Agree, but here's the kicker ... I recorded some of those cuts from LP to CDR ... and they proved better in the same way the LP did. The high frequencies of those SACDs seemed constricted, compressed and ended up "screaming" instead of singing - during higher gain.

To be fair, the player I used at that time was the 777 which certainly wasn't my cup of tea (one of the worst digital noise floors I've ever heard, at any price). That said, it didn't sound consistently bright on all disks, CD or SACD. In fact, some DSD (and even some CDs) material was impressive.

The best SACD player I've had within my system, bar none, was the Linn Akurate. That said, I very much appreciate the unique sound of Linn digital so I'm biased. I nearly purchased the unit ... until I realized Linn was soon to discontinue all optical disk players.

tb1

That explains a lot. With all due respect to Sony, the 777 is not in the same class, not even close, as the Marantz players of today.
Bright? More like blinding.