Heard the Magico S5's yesterday

[stereo]

If a speaker needs a specific amp to work its best, or an amp needs specific speakers to work its best, then there is a major problem with both designs. Most likely there was some other factor coming into play in this situation.

so your view is that a good design of speaker should work with any amp, even a one poorly designed or not fully broken in? that's a weird logic.
I would rather say that a very good speaker design is so transparent to the source that you hear all differences in upstream components, therefore it is worth being picky in your choice of amps, because the speaker is never the limit. On the contrary, when you have a poor speaker design, it introduces a veil on any source, so you hear much less differences between upstream components.

 

[LL21]

here is a question for Madfloyd: Coming away from the audition, any preliminary impressions about how the S5 compares with the Alexia?

 

[Orb]

If a speaker needs a specific amp to work its best, or an amp needs specific speakers to work its best, then there is a major problem with both designs. Most likely there was some other factor coming into play in this situation.

I would say the Magico design actually works very well because it enables greater choice of electronics by presenting their traits so clearly.
The issue is that some may not like all the traits of said electronics.
As an example I thought the Magico S1 with the Devialet would be a right wake up call for high end, but someone I trust says such a setup is not going to appeal to everyone (and probably not most), putting the S1 with a subtly warmer-analogue electronic setup changes that and fits with the majority of his customers' preferences.
But key is resolution-neutrality-transparency and just how much listeners are used to really wanting that (I love Sonus Faber so appreciate the subtle distinctions even as their newer models replace older ones).
That said I think the Magico lower S models are game changers because they bring home how a speaker should be a great tool for selecting the right electronics to suite a persons listening preferences without being as ruthless as the Q models.
Personally I feel they enable this more than other speakers I have experienced in similar price range to S models (but one major consideration is sealed box vs ported as it does change perceived bass behaviour a bit IMO).

Cheers
Orb

 

[scouter]

I have heard both the Q3s and the S5s, and as said above, each has their attributes. Different speakers for sure, but both have that revealing, non-fatiquing, effortlessly musical sound. Alan Sircom's review of the S5 hits the nail on the head regarding the S5s. I like all music, but prefer rock, electronic, alternative, and blues. For me, the S5s did the trick-I purchased them- but still am haunted by the Q3s resolution, which the S5s just miss in ultimate degrees. The S5s, however rock, and bass is the bomb. My wife and I have been having fun this week exchanging cables compliments of The Cable Company, and the S5s are very revealing of upstream changes nonetheless. If little fingers or paws are around in a nondedicated room, S5s have the benefit of a protective grill. BTW, Snake River is a new cable to me, and we have been pretty impressed with them in our listening this week, IMHO. If auditioning cables, these should be included in the session.

 

[MadFloyd]

As you hint, I believe there was a set up problem. I have heard many time the S5 with Constellation. There are many amps I prefer (also over the latest Spectral which is very good), but it is not a bad amp, and it works well with S5.

I would love to get your thoughts on other amps that work with the S5's.

 

[MadFloyd]

here is a question for Madfloyd: Coming away from the audition, any preliminary impressions about how the S5 compares with the Alexia?

Hmm, how to answer that one... What I heard at Goodwins (S5's + Spectral + large treated room) beats what I hear at home (Alexias + Doshi 90w + non-dedicated listening room). I heard content in classical music there that I never heard (and still can't hear) on my home system.

So many variables! I have some thoughts on the differences but some are just speculation. Here's a few:

- My Alexias have never been professionally setup. They are, however, sitting in the same general location as my Sashas - which were setup by Jim Smith. That said, Jim Smith's setup is very different from a typical Wilson setup.

- I'm using tube amps which will never produce the same bass and speed as a solid state amp (and in case someone takes exception to this let me add 'in my experience with the smaller, impedance challenged Wilson speakers')

- I believe the ability of the large Goodwin's room to create a deep layered soundstage (superb on classical music) is tremendous. I can't expect to get the same presentation in my room.

- I believe that Wilson speakers are designed to be positioned close to the front wall whereas Magicos (and some other brands) are more flexible. I like to listen into a performance and like a deep soundstage. I think someone could argue that my Alexias (currently pulled out about 6 feet from the front wall to create a layered soundstage) might sound more tonally correct when placed closer to 3 feet from the front wall. Unfortunately in my situation, this means hitting a bass node and me sitting either too far away (not ideal!) or not in the best location for bass.

- I am under the impression that Magicos are more linear/smoother in the upper frequencies. Although my Alexias sounded pretty smooth with the D'Agostino Momentum (I auditioned the stereo amp recently), the presentation at Goodwins was smoother.

- I think Wilsons are a thinner sound (in the midrange up) than Magico and that's one of the reasons I use tube amps with mine (almost feels like a necessity for my brain to perceive something close to natural body on many instruments). I think Magico has plenty of body with solid state.

So yeah, plenty of variables. I would like to hear the S5's again (and I plan to) and I'd like to hear them with different electronics. I'm considering bringing my tube amps to Goodwins to hear that combination (I hear VAC tube amps mate very well so I'm curious).

 

[LL21]

Hmm, how to answer that one... What I heard at Goodwins (S5's + Spectral + large treated room) beats what I hear at home (Alexias + Doshi 90w + non-dedicated listening room). I heard content in classical music there that I never heard (and still can't hear) on my home system.

So many variables! I have some thoughts on the differences but some are just speculation. Here's a few:

- My Alexias have never been professionally setup. They are, however, sitting in the same general location as my Sashas - which were setup by Jim Smith. That said, Jim Smith's setup is very different from a typical Wilson setup.

- I'm using tube amps which will never produce the same bass and speed as a solid state amp (and in case someone takes exception to this let me add 'in my experience with the smaller, impedance challenged Wilson speakers')

- I believe the ability of the large Goodwin's room to create a deep layered soundstage (superb on classical music) is tremendous. I can't expect to get the same presentation in my room.

- I believe that Wilson speakers are designed to be positioned close to the front wall whereas Magicos (and some other brands) are more flexible. I like to listen into a performance and like a deep soundstage. I think someone could argue that my Alexias (currently pulled out about 6 feet from the front wall to create a layered soundstage) might sound more tonally correct when placed closer to 3 feet from the front wall. Unfortunately in my situation, this means hitting a bass node and me sitting either too far away (not ideal!) or not in the best location for bass.

- I am under the impression that Magicos are more linear/smoother in the upper frequencies. Although my Alexias sounded pretty smooth with the D'Agostino Momentum (I auditioned the stereo amp recently), the presentation at Goodwins was smoother.

- I think Wilsons are a thinner sound (in the midrange up) than Magico and that's one of the reasons I use tube amps with mine (almost feels like a necessity for my brain to perceive something close to natural body on many instruments). I think Magico has plenty of body with solid state.

So yeah, plenty of variables. I would like to hear the S5's again (and I plan to) and I'd like to hear them with different electronics. I'm considering bringing my tube amps to Goodwins to hear that combination (I hear VAC tube amps mate very well so I'm curious).

Thanks, Madfloyd...lots of good stuff to read in your comments. initial thoughts:

1. A lot of respect for Jim Smith, and I understand what you say about nodes. That said, I would be intrigued what a [really good] Wilson setup person would do.

2. It is relatively more difficult (in my ltd experience) to get seriously deep soundstages with Wilsons like what you and I heard with the Altairs at Goodwins...mainly because (I guess) Wilsons often are set up closer to the wall/corner.

3. That said, what I have definitely observed is that as I have pushed the boundaries of isolation on the rest of my electronics, I have watched the exact same tracks you and I played at Goodwins start to drop further and further back behind my speakers...its been quite cool. Sherlock Holmes II soundtrack (Track 1) started out right out in front...from 5 feet behind speaker back about 8-15 feet...too shallow. After a whole load of isolation, the orchestra now starts about 12 feet back and drops back a further 25+ feet when the kettle drums kick in...and that is quite close to what the Altairs were doing as I recall. And as you will no doubt recall. the Altair were waaay into the front half of the room. So, it is possible to get depth with Wilsons...but it has been much harder to do in my experience.

4. As far as thinner, the Alexias' treble was very very revealing when I heard it at my local dealers the first time...almost turned up actually...and I think that may have to do with the fact that they just plunked it down...and did not adjust the tweeters. If yours were not setup by Wilson, did you play around with the resistors with your Alexias? It throws the balance off (or on) quite a bit.

5. I do believe the Alexias have a noxious impedance load at around 80hz??...sub 1ohm? I imagine your tube amps are super, though I do wonder what happens when you stick some SS power against that load. In which case, when you bring your Doshis to the S5, you might find they like the load better as well...though will SS go better with the slightly voiced manner of the S5 than Doshis? Only time will tell...when are you going back to hear the S5s?

 

[MadFloyd]

Thanks, Madfloyd...lots of good stuff to read in your comments. initial thoughts:

1. A lot of respect for Jim Smith, and I understand what you say about nodes. That said, I would be intrigued what a [really good] Wilson setup person would do.

2. It is relatively more difficult (in my ltd experience) to get seriously deep soundstages with Wilsons like what you and I heard with the Altairs at Goodwins...mainly because (I guess) Wilsons often are set up closer to the wall/corner.

3. That said, what I have definitely observed is that as I have pushed the boundaries of isolation on the rest of my electronics, I have watched the exact same tracks you and I played at Goodwins start to drop further and further back behind my speakers...its been quite cool. Sherlock Holmes II soundtrack (Track 1) started out right out in front...from 5 feet behind speaker back about 8-15 feet...too shallow. After a whole load of isolation, the orchestra now starts about 12 feet back and drops back a further 25+ feet when the kettle drums kick in...and that is quite close to what the Altairs were doing as I recall. And as you will no doubt recall. the Altair were waaay into the front half of the room. So, it is possible to get depth with Wilsons...but it has been much harder to do in my experience.

4. As far as thinner, the Alexias' treble was very very revealing when I heard it at my local dealers the first time...almost turned up actually...and I think that may have to do with the fact that they just plunked it down...and did not adjust the tweeters. If yours were not setup by Wilson, did you play around with the resistors with your Alexias? It throws the balance off (or on) quite a bit.

5. I do believe the Alexias have a noxious impedance load at around 80hz??...sub 1ohm? I imagine your tube amps are super, though I do wonder what happens when you stick some SS power against that load. In which case, when you bring your Doshis to the S5, you might find they like the load better as well...though will SS go better with the slightly voiced manner of the S5 than Doshis? Only time will tell...when are you going back to hear the S5s?

Thanks for your thoughts, Lloyd.

I am planning to try out Stillpoints at some point soon. As for resistors, I have received some in the mail but I don't have any info on them. I don't know what they're for - tweeter, midrange? Attenuate or boost? Why did I get them - I have no idea. Seems my dealer was thinking something - or perhaps Wilson suggested it based on a conversation they might have had. I have no idea and keep meaning to ask him (but keep forgetting).

Regarding the S5's. Yes, I am planning to go back (with my amps in tow) but have to figure out a good time (this weekend wasn't good). One of the four individuals who was with me the last time wants to hear them again with my amps so I need to coordinate it. Hopefully soon. I might try them in the smaller room as well. I do suspect that I won't prefer tube amps with the S5's for the reasons you already mentioned. Somebody told me Vitus is a good match but I don't know anything about that brand.

 

[stereo]

I would love to get your thoughts on other amps that work with the S5's.

I have heard Magico with the following amps. Within each category, the amps are classified by order of preference (starting with best). For the amplifier with which I had only short experience with a Magico speaker (around 1hr), I have put them in italic:
Gold standard
Vitus SL102+SS101: amazing, really sweet sound (a tube sound.... with the slam in the bass and the extension of the best solid state amp. Only slight weakness is that highs are very slightly recessed compared to my Dartzeel for example, but this adds to the sweetness). Would work with any Magico speakers. Only the Q5 may further improve (?) with a bit more power- would have to hear the Vitus from the Master series
Dartzeel NHB-458: best amp I have heard with the Vitus combo. Best amp for Q5
Vitus integrated SIA-025: never heard a 25W amp sounding so good, and it sounds like much more than 25W. If you listen very loud, you may want more power, but it is an amazing amp! Works well will S5 or Q3 if your room is not a cathedral. May be a bit underpowered for my Q1 (Q1 has lower sensitivity), but I still have one coming
Dartzeel NHB-108: my current amp. Not as sweet as the Vitus, but very fast, with an amazing decay. Enough power for all Magico speakers except Q5. Balance is a bit thinner and a tad more transparent than the Vitus. Planning to compare it with a Vitus in my room to have same reference.
Gryphon Colosseum: Class A sound, similar to Vitus. May be higher in the list, but didn't hear it long enough to be sure

Silver standard
Hegel combo: excellent sound for the price, great value for money. When showed at Tokyo audio show last year with the S5, it was significantly better than the much more expensive Pass mono amps they were using alternatively
Soulution 700 and 500 series: super low noise floor (which makes it a candidate for my Ultimate), super transparent and neutral. But a bit cold (like the Spectral, but better than a Spectral), I would like something warmer without losing on details
D'Agostino amp
Audio research Ref150: I am not a big fan of AR, but I was positively surprised by this model. Sounds different from the classical AR. Works wonder on Q3
Spectral DM-400: very transparent, very fast, but a bit "mono-tone", lacks richness of tone of my Dartzeel, a bit too cold for me to be my long term amp.
A big Boulder (don't remember the number, but sound was nice- may be higher in ranking)
VAC450 reference: heard it on Q7. Super sweet mid, but lacks extension in the highs vs. the best solid state, and bass is sluggish. Typical tubes sound.


Bronze standard
Constellation Centaur (stereo): average quality of construction (open one, what a mess). Sounds very good, is not doing anything bad but also nothing great, but would expect more at this price point. Not the ultimate transparency. I however still prefer it over the 110V DM360
Devialet D-Premier: excellent solution for a no thrill system (have also one). One box for streamer, DAC, pre and power amp, so very good value for money. But sound quality not at the level of a solution with separate elements, or of a Vitus integrated. With Q1, sounds improve significantly when you use 2 in mono configuration
Spectral DM360: had mixed experience. on a 110V model, very fast amp but cold, and bass was sluggish (worse than the Constellation which I listened on same day, with Q7). On a 220V model, same characteristic but with outstanding bass. As often, 220V version of amp works much better. And I had the impression that DM400 was a significant improvement (but I listened to them on a different day)
Ayre MX-R: nice monoblocks. Sounds quality at similar level as the Devialet.

Not a good match
APL hifi UA-S4: I have one (hybrid tube-solid state) that I was using with my APL speakers. Lacks current to work well on Magico.
McIntosh: Believe it was the Mc452 or Mc302. Sluggish, slow, lacks transparency. Like all solid state mcIntosh I heard in the past....

Not heard but probably competing for the Gold standard category
MSB M203: heard very good things on it from 2 trusted Magico owners, I have never heard it myself
Gryphon Mephisto: Jeff Fritz is raving about it driving his Q7. Have not heard it yet, but if it is really better than a pair of Collosseum then it really must be something!

On specific fit of an amp on different models of Magico: All Magico speakers are very transparent and neutral. If an amp is good, you will hear it. If it is a poor design, you will hear it. The only caveat is that some Magico are easier to drive. Q5 is the most demanding: works well with a lot of power, and a lot of current. S5 is in fact not so difficult to drive. Easier than a 2 way like the Q1. But for what it is worth, my 150W Dartzeel never clipped on the Q1.
Q3 and Q7 are the easiest to drive. Any amp on the list above would work well.

On S5 vs Alexia: with S5 you have more bass extension, cleaner bass (when your ear get used to closed bass, you will find any bass reflex bloated and slow), more transparent mid range and sweeter tweeter. Speaker overall is also more neutral due to more linear frequency response. I have moved away from Wilson a while back and did never look back. Even if an S5 is 40% cheaper, I would take an S5 over an Alexia.
PS: on using variable resistors to adjust tweeter on your Alexia: it introduces impedance issue, which can affect phase. It also changes frequency response of tweeter which (in passive XO) can affect balance of all of the XO. Not a very good idea, flexibility of set up has a cost.
Hope it helps!

 

[LL21]

Thanks for your thoughts, Lloyd.

I am planning to try out Stillpoints at some point soon. As for resistors, I have received some in the mail but I don't have any info on them. I don't know what they're for - tweeter, midrange? Attenuate or boost? Why did I get them - I have no idea. Seems my dealer was thinking something - or perhaps Wilson suggested it based on a conversation they might have had. I have no idea and keep meaning to ask him (but keep forgetting).

Regarding the S5's. Yes, I am planning to go back (with my amps in tow) but have to figure out a good time (this weekend wasn't good). One of the four individuals who was with me the last time wants to hear them again with my amps so I need to coordinate it. Hopefully soon. I might try them in the smaller room as well. I do suspect that I won't prefer tube amps with the S5's for the reasons you already mentioned. Somebody told me Vitus is a good match but I don't know anything about that brand.

Hi MadFloyd,

Feel free to let me know when you start trying out Stillpoints. In my experience, they really require very very careful setup. They can work exceptionally well if you plunk them down...you can also [on rare occasion] get a really funky result. And then if you get it really right, its pure magic. Pain in the neck to figure it out by trial and error...but get it right, and I don't think you'll ever take them out.

As for resistors, the answer is dpending on the value of resistor, you can either attenutate or boost any of the drivers independently. And again depending on the resistor value, you can do so by increments of something like 0.7db or something around that level of specificity. On the back you will see the resistors for tweeter (right?) and mids (left?)...you can add a resistor that boosts or attenuates to either in order to finetune the balance of your Alexia. Trust me, it makes a huge huge difference...2db of extra treble can take your ears off...they took mine off with my X1s. I was so upset, I told the dealer not to bring them over to the house until he 'could fix the X1s'...the Distributor was so confident he guaranteed the install or he would take them out. Sure enough, the pair had their tweeters boosted by 2.5db to accommodate a super long nyc apartment. they brought it back 2.5db and it got a touch recessed...a different resistor that put it back up 0.7db and bingo.

Finally, as to Vitus, most of them are pure Class A powerhouses...designed to be extreme in their power handling capabilities where the headroom allows 50 watts to compare well in reviews with far bigger wattage amps (think 200). Very very focused on delivering a pure pure signal. Some people place them in a similar category with Gryphon...and I have been told by others not quite a good comparison. In any event...think extreme effortlessness and purity of signal...from what people whove owned them all tell me, it seems like somewhere between Boulder and Gryphon if that helps at all.

 

[MadFloyd]

I have heard Magico with the following amps:
Gold standard
Vitus SL102+SS101: amazing, really sweet sound (a tube sound.... with the slam in the bass and the extension of the best tube amp)
Vitus integrated SIA-025: never heard a 25W amp sounding so good. If you listen very loud, you may want more power, but it is an amazing amp!
Dartzeel NHB-458: best amp I have heard with the Vitus combo
Dartzeel NHB-108: my current amp. Not as sweet as the Vitus, but very fast, with an amazing decay. Balance is a bit thinner and a tad more transparent than the Vitus. Planning to compare it with a Vitus in my room to have same reference.
Gryphon Colosseum: Class A sound, similar to Vitus

Silver standard
VAC450 reference: super sweet mid, but lacks extension in the highs vs. the best solid state, and bass is sluggish
Spectral DM-400: very transparent, but a bit "mono-tone", lacks richness of tone, a bit too cold for me.
Soulution 700 and 500 series: super low noise floor (which makes it a candidate for my Ultimate), super transparent and neutral. But a bit cold and boring (like the Spectral, but better than a Spectral), I would like something warmer without losing on details
Hegel combo: excellent sound for the price, great value for money
Audio research Ref150: I am not a big fan of AR, but I was positively surprised by this model. Sounds different from the classical AR.
A big Boulder (don't remember the number, but sound was nice)
D'Agostino amp

Bronze standard
Devialet D-Premier: excellent solution for a no thrill system (have also one). One box for streamer, DAC, pre and power amp, so very good value for money. But sound quality not at the level of solution with separate elements, or of a Vitus integrated
Spectral DM360: had mixed experience. on a 110V model, very fast amp but cold, and bass was sluggish. On a 220V model, same characteristic but with outstanding bass. As often, 220V version of amp works much better
Constellation Centaur (stereo): average quality of construction (open one, what a mess). Sounds good, is not doing anything bad but also nothing great, but would expect more at this price point. I however still prefer it over the 110V DM360
Ayre MX-R: nice monoblocks. Sounds quality at similar level as the Devialet.

Not a good match
APL hifi UA-S4: I have one (hybrid tube-solid state) that I was using with my APL speakers. Lacks current to work well on Magico.

On S5 vs Alexia: with S5 you have more bass extension, cleaner bass (when your ear get used to closed bass, you will find any bass reflex bloated and slow), more transparent mid range and sweeter tweeter. Speaker overall is also more neutral due to more linear frequency response. I have moved away from Wilson a while back and did never look back.
PS: on using variable resistors to adjust tweeter on your Alexia: it introduces impedance issue, which can affect phase. It also changes frequency response of tweeter which (in passive XO) can affect balance of all of the XO. Not a very good idea, flexibility of set up has a cost.
Hope it helps!

Thank you so much for this, stereo. Great to know that Spectral isn't a necessity (given that I don't own MIT cables).

 

[LL21]

I have heard Magico with the following amps:
Gold standard
Vitus SL102+SS101: amazing, really sweet sound (a tube sound.... with the slam in the bass and the extension of the best tube amp)
Vitus integrated SIA-025: never heard a 25W amp sounding so good. If you listen very loud, you may want more power, but it is an amazing amp!
Dartzeel NHB-458: best amp I have heard with the Vitus combo
Dartzeel NHB-108: my current amp. Not as sweet as the Vitus, but very fast, with an amazing decay. Balance is a bit thinner and a tad more transparent than the Vitus. Planning to compare it with a Vitus in my room to have same reference.
Gryphon Colosseum: Class A sound, similar to Vitus

Silver standard
VAC450 reference...
Spectral DM-400...Soulution 700 and 500 series...Hegel combo...Audio research Ref150...A big Boulder (don't remember the number, but sound was nice)...D'Agostino amp

Bronze standard
Devialet D-Premier...Spectral DM360...Constellation Centaur (stereo)...Ayre MX-R; ...

Not a good match
APL hifi UA-S4...

Thanks! Always nice to see the Gryphon Colosseum made your vaunted Gold List for the S5s...

 

[PeterA]

I have heard Magico with the following amps:
Gold standard
Vitus SL102+SS101: amazing, really sweet sound (a tube sound.... with the slam in the bass and the extension of the best tube amp)
Vitus integrated SIA-025: never heard a 25W amp sounding so good. If you listen very loud, you may want more power, but it is an amazing amp!
Dartzeel NHB-458: best amp I have heard with the Vitus combo
Dartzeel NHB-108: my current amp. Not as sweet as the Vitus, but very fast, with an amazing decay. Balance is a bit thinner and a tad more transparent than the Vitus. Planning to compare it with a Vitus in my room to have same reference.
Gryphon Colosseum: Class A sound, similar to Vitus

Silver standard
VAC450 reference: super sweet mid, but lacks extension in the highs vs. the best solid state, and bass is sluggish
Spectral DM-400: very transparent, but a bit "mono-tone", lacks richness of tone, a bit too cold for me.
Soulution 700 and 500 series: super low noise floor (which makes it a candidate for my Ultimate), super transparent and neutral. But a bit cold and boring (like the Spectral, but better than a Spectral), I would like something warmer without losing on details
Hegel combo: excellent sound for the price, great value for money
Audio research Ref150: I am not a big fan of AR, but I was positively surprised by this model. Sounds different from the classical AR.
A big Boulder (don't remember the number, but sound was nice)
D'Agostino amp

Bronze standard
Devialet D-Premier: excellent solution for a no thrill system (have also one). One box for streamer, DAC, pre and power amp, so very good value for money. But sound quality not at the level of solution with separate elements, or of a Vitus integrated
Spectral DM360: had mixed experience. on a 110V model, very fast amp but cold, and bass was sluggish. On a 220V model, same characteristic but with outstanding bass. As often, 220V version of amp works much better
Constellation Centaur (stereo): average quality of construction (open one, what a mess). Sounds good, is not doing anything bad but also nothing great, but would expect more at this price point. I however still prefer it over the 110V DM360
Ayre MX-R: nice monoblocks. Sounds quality at similar level as the Devialet.

Stereo, that is a very helpful and interesting list. Thanks for being so specific and detailed. In your experience, would you say this list might be shifted a bit depending on which Magico speaker you're talking about, or do all Magicos behave about the same way with various amps? I've read, for instance, that the Q3 is a considerably easier load than my Mini2 or the Q5. Also, could you rank in order of preference the Magico speakers that you have heard at length? Finally, have you ever heard a Magico speaker paired with Pass Labs amps?

I really appreciate your contributions to Magico threads on WBF because of your candor and experience with the brand.

 

[asiufy]

Regarding the S5's. Yes, I am planning to go back (with my amps in tow) but have to figure out a good time (this weekend wasn't good). One of the four individuals who was with me the last time wants to hear them again with my amps so I need to coordinate it. Hopefully soon. I might try them in the smaller room as well. I do suspect that I won't prefer tube amps with the S5's for the reasons you already mentioned. Somebody told me Vitus is a good match but I don't know anything about that brand.

MadFloyd,

If you do take your amps there, ask them to plug in a Q3 as well. Do not miss the chance to try your amps on the Q3, as they're more refined AND easier to drive than the S5, which will probably do wonders for your tube amps!


alexandre

 

[PeterA]

MadFloyd,

If you do take your amps there, ask them to plug in a Q3 as well. Do not miss the chance to try your amps on the Q3, as they're more refined AND easier to drive than the S5, which will probably do wonders for your tube amps!


alexandre

Completely agree with this, however, MadFloyd listens to a variety of music and I think feels the S5 has more "slam".

 

[stereo]

Thank you so much for this, stereo. Great to know that Spectral isn't a necessity (given that I don't own MIT cables).

I would take a lot of other amps over the Spectral (and I already own MIT Oracle MAX-2 and Oracle Matrix SHD-120, so cable not an issue for me). To my ears, Spectral is very impressive at the beginning, but a bit fatiguing after 30min. I personally prefer the warmth of a good class A.

 

[stereo]

Stereo, that is a very helpful and interesting list. Thanks for being so specific and detailed. In your experience, would you say this list might be shifted a bit depending on which Magico speaker you're talking about, or do all Magicos behave about the same way with various amps? I've read, for instance, that the Q3 is a considerably easier load than my Mini2 or the Q5. Also, could you rank in order of preference the Magico speakers that you have heard at length? Finally, have you ever heard a Magico speaker paired with Pass Labs amps?

I really appreciate your contributions to Magico threads on WBF because of your candor and experience with the brand.

I have updated the list with some comments specific to speakers. I have also heard the S5 with 2 large Pass monoblocks. I unfortunately forgot which model it was, that's why I have not put them in the list. But for what it is worth, it was at Tokyo audio show last year. Distributor was switching between Hegel and Pass, and the (much cheaper) Hegel was working much better. In comparison, the Pass lacked transparency and sounded slow and a bit muddy in the bass. Was a surprise for me as I have a lot of respect for Nelson Pass as a designer (used some of his designs when I was young in some DIY amps).

 

[microstrip]

Hmm, how to answer that one... What I heard at Goodwins (S5's + Spectral + large treated room) beats what I hear at home (Alexias + Doshi 90w + non-dedicated listening room). I heard content in classical music there that I never heard (and still can't hear) on my home system.

So many variables! I have some thoughts on the differences but some are just speculation. Here's a few:

- My Alexias have never been professionally setup. They are, however, sitting in the same general location as my Sashas - which were setup by Jim Smith. That said, Jim Smith's setup is very different from a typical Wilson setup.

- I'm using tube amps which will never produce the same bass and speed as a solid state amp (and in case someone takes exception to this let me add 'in my experience with the smaller, impedance challenged Wilson speakers')

- I believe the ability of the large Goodwin's room to create a deep layered soundstage (superb on classical music) is tremendous. I can't expect to get the same presentation in my room.

- I believe that Wilson speakers are designed to be positioned close to the front wall whereas Magicos (and some other brands) are more flexible. I like to listen into a performance and like a deep soundstage. I think someone could argue that my Alexias (currently pulled out about 6 feet from the front wall to create a layered soundstage) might sound more tonally correct when placed closer to 3 feet from the front wall. Unfortunately in my situation, this means hitting a bass node and me sitting either too far away (not ideal!) or not in the best location for bass.

- I am under the impression that Magicos are more linear/smoother in the upper frequencies. Although my Alexias sounded pretty smooth with the D'Agostino Momentum (I auditioned the stereo amp recently), the presentation at Goodwins was smoother.

- I think Wilsons are a thinner sound (in the midrange up) than Magico and that's one of the reasons I use tube amps with mine (almost feels like a necessity for my brain to perceive something close to natural body on many instruments). I think Magico has plenty of body with solid state.

So yeah, plenty of variables. I would like to hear the S5's again (and I plan to) and I'd like to hear them with different electronics. I'm considering bringing my tube amps to Goodwins to hear that combination (I hear VAC tube amps mate very well so I'm curious).

MadFloyd,

Just to add one more detail to your speculation - you were listening to a DCS source. Every time I listened to my recordings in systems using DCS gear I discovered new layers of music in them, particularly in string sections in classical music and singers.

 

[jap]

Has anyone heard the S5s with the Aesthetix amps?

 

[mbovaird]

I've heard the S5's numerous times. My favorite was the Vitus Class A stereo amp - by far. That being said, I've wondered about Accuphase on S5's. A new E-600 integrated might just be the ticket. Add the built in 24/192 USB DAC and Phonostage and you're set.

In addition, I've also wondered about Accuphase Class AB amps. Their use again of MOSFETS may make this the perfect combination of warmth, bass control and dynamics. Maybe even better than the Class A?

FWIW - I don't think the S5 is better than the Alexia's IF the Alexia's are paired with D'Agostino amps. Anything else is a crap shoot in my opinion and no, I don't think its a weakness, just an undeniable terrific synergy.

I've heard the Alexia's sound incredible with D'Agostino and McIntosh 601's (yes, Mcintosh!) and I've heard them sound a little thin with ARC and VTL.

I've heard the S5's sound incredible with pretty much everything but Constellation. Vitus Class A being tops.

MadFloyd - good luck on your journey!