New tape pre-amp king!!

[Bruce B]

I would not expect a tape pass through to be entirely neutral. Tape will add gentle compression and extremely low level dither to the audio thereby gently compressing dynamic range. This process adds warmth and lifts detail slightly. Those are characteristics that lead a lot of musicians to run their mixes through a tape machine and/or purchase software that emulates several famous tape paths.

Exactly... mastering engineers do this all the time. It's called "tape layback". A lot of studios are also mixing down their multi-tracks to tape. This is nothing new and has been going on for decades.

 

[Ki Choi]

I would not expect a tape pass through to be entirely neutral. Tape will add gentle compression and extremely low level dither to the audio thereby gently compressing dynamic range. This process adds warmth and lifts detail slightly. Those are characteristics that lead a lot of musicians to run their mixes through a tape machine and/or purchase software that emulates several famous tape paths.

In my design, one of the biggest differences over a standard studer electronics path is that (if my memory serves me right) - no input / output transformers and no eq in a feedback loop. The latter, i feel, contributes to a more open/dynamic sound. I observed the same characteristics when auditioning the unit at my listening room with a stock technics RS-1500 head vs my stock Studer A-810 (trafoless outputs) and Sony APR 5003. I was surprised at the amount of detail and resolution existed in tapes that i had heard many times. On a Varese track the effect was spooky and kind of frightening!

Hi Nick:

Nice preamp you have built. As for the "tape sound"- I understood it to be the rare odd (3rd) harmonic distortion effects from tape that adds the special "flavor" to music played via tape media. It is pleasing to my ears a little different way than the sound from the classic tube devices that I know to produce even harmonic distortions.

Of course, no tape machine will reproduce perfectly flat frequency responses but like the LP with only two null points but still sounding good, flat response is overrated, IMHO.

Optimally set up Sony APR-5003 is a nice performer. My only complaint was its super loud fan. I once measured closed to 80dB standing in front of the Sony. Two APR 5003s I have, they had received fan modification to be whisper quiet. Let me know if you are interested in learning what I did to them.

Ki

 

[rockitman]

Interesting review on th Doshi phono stage too. Wouldn't it be cool if you could do tape and phono (with all those MC load options) from the same unit ? The Doshi Universal...

 

[doshiaudio]

Interesting review on th Doshi phono stage too. Wouldn't it be cool if you could do tape and phono (with all those MC load options) from the same unit ? The Doshi Universal...

It would be easier to do RIAA and NAB but IEC would be slightly tougher. Also, MC carts have lower output impedances than heads so the voltage vs current noise equations get too compromised for one vs the other if you use the same type of pre-preamplifier. Besides, having seperates is more manly right?

 

[doshiaudio]

I have done exactly that to both my APR machines (i only have one now), rebuilt the PSU and put in a 32dba fan. We should trade war stories. Mine are mostly about old ampex machines though

 

[microstrip]

It would be easier to do RIAA and NAB but IEC would be slightly tougher. Also, MC carts have lower output impedances than heads so the voltage vs current noise equations get too compromised for one vs the other if you use the same type of pre-preamplifier. Besides, having seperates is more manly right?

Nick,
The reason why you choose different type of input devices in the phono and tape units was mainly noise? Or did you use the FET / transformer approach because it "sounded" better on vinyl?

 

[c1ferrari]

I would not expect a tape pass through to be entirely neutral. Tape will add gentle compression and extremely low level dither to the audio thereby gently compressing dynamic range. This process adds warmth and lifts detail slightly. Those are characteristics that lead a lot of musicians to run their mixes through a tape machine and/or purchase software that emulates several famous tape paths.

In my design, one of the biggest differences over a standard studer electronics path is that (if my memory serves me right) - no input / output transformers and no eq in a feedback loop. The latter, i feel, contributes to a more open/dynamic sound. I observed the same characteristics when auditioning the unit at my listening room with a stock technics RS-1500 head vs my stock Studer A-810 (trafoless outputs) and Sony APR 5003. I was surprised at the amount of detail and resolution existed in tapes that i had heard many times. On a Varese track the effect was spooky and kind of frightening!

Hello, Nick,

Your response is appreciated.

At this point in time, my opinion reflects an all-analog capture and reproduction, i.e. direct-to-two track recording, employing minimal mic technique (analog mics x 2-->mic pre-->2-track analog R2R recorder/reproducer), of acoustic music is realizable and has the potential to offer the greatest approximation of the live event via two-channel stereo.

Regards,
Sam

 

[tony ky ma]

Hello, Nick,

Your response is appreciated.

At this point in time, my opinion reflects an all-analog capture and reproduction, i.e. direct-to-two track recording, employing minimal mic technique (analog mics x 2-->mic pre-->2-track analog R2R recorder/reproducer), of acoustic music is realizable and has the potential to offer the greatest approximation of the live event via two-channel stereo.

Regards,
Sam

Hi Sam
+1 that is what we are doing now
tony ma

 

[doshiaudio]

Sam,
There is no doubt that your approach has a great chance of providing state of the art results. Over time though I have heard some amazing multitrack recordings and some amazing multi track digital recordings of events where I was present and helped setup mics (the engineer being Peter MaGrath).

 

[doshiaudio]

I got my start as a recording engineer in NYC. I used to work part time at RCA and remember setting up Telefunken ELAM mics for the Marsalis quintet as well as other classical sessions. What you guys do is near and dear to my heart and is the reason I got into audio. Somewhere in a closet, my mic collection is stashed away, ready to come out when I have more time. (among my mics are a mint pair of 414's with c-2 capsules, perfect for M+S miking on small jazz groups). The MC section in my Phono stage started life as a Mic preamp and one day, I hope to get that project back on track.

 

[doshiaudio]

There are specific advantages to using FETs for MC's and bipolars for tape heads that have to do with output impedance. My goal is always to do the most elegant solution possible. The version of the Tape playback unit that i demoed at RMAF actually used FETS in the input. For Bruce's application i needed a more robust input section so i could drive 2 seperate eq sections. To do this, i chose the IC solution and the results are as good or better.

 

[c1ferrari]

Hi Sam
+1 that is what we are doing now
tony ma

Hi Tony,

I find your approach -- inspired
I don't know if I'll ever release any titles, but my brief excursions with direct-to-two track recordings has persuaded me that is where it's at

 

[c1ferrari]

Sam,
There is no doubt that your approach has a great chance of providing state of the art results. Over time though I have heard some amazing multitrack recordings and some amazing multi track digital recordings of events where I was present and helped setup mics (the engineer being Peter MaGrath).

Nick,

I wasn't going to pursue direct-to-two track recording, until my Studer tech tantalized me with the potential results available via this technique.
I know I shouldn't do it, but I'm now shopping for an A827

 

[c1ferrari]

I got my start as a recording engineer in NYC. I used to work part time at RCA and remember setting up Telefunken ELAM mics for the Marsalis quintet as well as other classical sessions. What you guys do is near and dear to my heart and is the reason I got into audio. Somewhere in a closet, my mic collection is stashed away, ready to come out when I have more time. (among my mics are a mint pair of 414's with c-2 capsules, perfect for M+S miking on small jazz groups). The MC section in my Phono stage started life as a Mic preamp and one day, I hope to get that project back on track.

OMG Excellent
I'm using a factory-matched stereo pair of Schoeps CMC6 mics with MK 5 capsules, MK 8 capsule, into a Gordon Model 5 micamp, recorded into a Studer A820 and/or Korg MR-2000s at DSD128. On-location recording is a VERY exciting proposition, indeed Before it's all over, I'd like to record with some C12's, M49's, and M50's
I'm informed there's plenty of talent down here, e.g. San Diego. I guess I have to get out and take advantage of it...darn day job

 

[rockitman]

Schoeps, my favorite live on location recording mics...

 

[c1ferrari]

Schoeps, my favorite live on location recording mics...

Christian,

Have you done some recording

 

[rockitman]

Christian,

Have you done some recording

Yes, I was a very active taper from about 1989 -2000. Was using DAT with schoeps mk4 active wires. Recorded quite a few big name acts that don't allow recording along with those that did...specifically Grateful Dead from '89-'95.

 

[Joe Galbraith]

Yes, I was a very active taper from about 1989 -2000. Was using DAT with schoeps mk4 active wires. Recorded quite a few big name acts that don't allow recording along with those that did...specifically Grateful Dead from '89-'95.

Ditto. At the end of my taping days, my final rig was AKG 481 >Grace Lunatec V2 mic pre >Apogee a/d 1000 > Tascam DAP1 w/ Audio Magic Excalibur II cables throughout, powered by Eco-Charge batts. 95 - 2001 was focused on Bruce Hornsby, Allman Bros, some DMB, Phish... After 95 or so, it started feeling more like work than the fun it once had been. I knew then it was time to lower the mic stand for the last time. Sold off almost everything to buy a Walker turntable. Still have the cables and my original first deck: the trusty Sony D5M cassette.

 

[Bruce B]

My very first 'professional' location recording was with a stereo pair of mics, Neve mic pre and a Teac 3440 at a Woody Herman concert at my college in '78

Then I upgraded to a Revox B-77

 

[rockitman]

After 95 or so, it started feeling more like work than the fun it once had been. I knew then it was time to lower the mic stand for the last time.

I hear that. Taping was work, especially when you had to go stealth for those bands it was required for. I still have one of my portable DAT machines and AKG 568EB shotgun/hyper card hybrid mics I used when in taping sections for bands behind the soundboard. The schoeps always required a great seat in front of the soundboard for them to perform best. I am dabbling with the idea of taping some symphonies during the summer but that would require me to purchase another set of mics and a Sound Devices 702. Maybe I will get back into it. There is no better souvenir from a concert than a well recorded tape to enjoy it again in the comfort of your home.