New Gryphon Amp coming!

[ApUk25]

I am intrigued by this also. I've inquired with several different dealers about the 333 vs Essence separates, and (while acknowledging there may be bias for price heirarchy) there has been a preference for Essence separates. The knock on the latter is bass response, which can be lacking a bit.
I suspect based on personal preference and system matching, the Essence is going to be be more liquid in the mids and highs, while still being neutral, while the 333 iwill be superior in the lower frequencies.

I felt that the essence STEREO was amazing very musical but could not drive my blades and when pushed actually clipped
it became evident to me that the class A sonic character was better that AB
The 333 was not as musical but had amazing control headroom and overall was a better amp if I could chose between the 2 its would be the 333
Cause I like a to play my music loud and the essence would not be enough for me

 

[Ricky64]

The issue with the Essence bass (potentially) involves the sensitivity and impedance curve of the mated speaker. A speaker with low sensitivity and impedance minima (usually in lower frequencies) would make it very difficult to keep up and would lack any headroom for large transients. You would hear this as less bass and higher distortion. 50 watts is borderline for many current dynamic speakers. Simple as that.

I am not having any bass issues with mine, and I do not tend to listen at high

I felt that the essence STEREO was amazing very musical but could not drive my blades and when pushed actually clipped
it became evident to me that the class A sonic character was better that AB
The 333 was not as musical but had amazing control headroom and overall was a better amp if I could chose between the 2 its would be the 333
Cause I like a to play my music loud and the essence would not be enough for me

Good reference point. I listen at fairly low volume levels, so really haven't experienced this.

 

[JiminGa]

Mate not sure what’s wound you up so much it’s only my opinion and i am entitled to it
From
What I’ve read the 333 has the the same Toshiba transistors as the apex the same binding posts and There actually a 333 video on you tube with rune stating that an apex and commander owner on
Listening to it referred to the 333 as a
Mini apex , either ways I’ve got an apex and commander arriving imminently and I will probably also get a 333 for one of my other lounges so I’ll make up my own mind

not worked up. all good. enjoy!

 

[Solartiger]

I have not heard the Apex yet, but the Diabolo 333. In the "bang for the buck" category, it is hard to beat. True Gryphon sound in one box. I was very impressed. It is a big box that screams "power". The improvement from the old Diabolo seems huge.

My Antileon Evo monos will be replaced by Antileon Revelation monos early next year.

 

[Laurusri]

The pre driver transistors. 10 per channel. Then

The

The 333 has 10 transistors and 68,000 mf /channel and amplifies in AB after 10 watts. Stereophile has the measurements for you to look at. It transitions to AB at 10 watts/8ohns. The Revelation has 40 transistors and 335,000 mf/channel. It never converts to AB at full bias. Over 1200 watts of pure class A into 1 ohm loads. They are completely different beasts. The reason Gryphon spent so much effort on the transistors and power supply on the Revelation is so that it will stay in class A under all circumstances. Gryphons whole philosophy is that class A creates better sound than AB. I agree with them. You may not which is ok. The 333 was not designed for this and is not capable of it. I really like the 333. A lot. I could easily see building a system around it but it is an AB integrated with moderate A biasing. I have heard the Apex, Evo, Mephisto, 333, 300, 120 many many times. I've heard the original Antileon, the Signature and the Coliseum. Each has its own pluses and minuses. if you are looking for ultimate sound qualitiy get the power amps. My friends with 333s love them but go to any of my friends with Apex and you will see/hear that they are not similar. Is the 333 maybe a better "value"? Yes. I recommend it to anyone who wants to keep the box count and the price down.

My reference was just your statement that Apex and 333 have nothing in common, nothing else.

I have listened to 333 and Essence on EOS2 speakers on several occasions in different rooms and with different preamps (Essence), my opinion is that Essence is more musical than 333.

I currently have 300 and EOS2 and don't have much space for a preamp/amp combo, but I'm thinking of upgrading next year:
333 is integrated, less space, less heat then Essence (also less than 300), less cables, sound much better than 300, authoritative, perfect match for EOS2.
Essence needs preamp, space, more cables, sound much better than 300, more musical than 333, also perfect match for EOS2.

Hope to hear them in my space to bring final decision.

 

[aangen]

My reference was just your statement that Apex and 333 have nothing in common, nothing else.

I have listened to 333 and Essence on EOS2 speakers on several occasions in different rooms and with different preamps (Essence), my opinion is that Essence is more musical than 333.

I currently have 300 and EOS2 and don't have much space for a preamp/amp combo, but I'm thinking of upgrading next year:
333 is integrated, less space, less heat then Essence (also less than 300), less cables, sound much better than 300, authoritative, perfect match for EOS2.
Essence needs preamp, space, more cables, sound much better than 300, more musical than 333, also perfect match for EOS2.

Hope to hear them in my space to bring final decision.

Well now you are just being silly.

 

[Laurusri]

Well now you are just being silly.

I don't understand what you meant?

 

[Ricky64]

Well now you are just being silly.

This post was sent at 3:47 am his time... Guessing a music/Oryctolagus cuniculus delirium...

 

[Laurusri]

This post was sent at 3:47 am his time... Guessing a music/Oryctolagus cuniculus delirium...

Today at 8:54 AM my time in Croatia

 

[Corinthian]

I've owned 300, Essence, Pandora and Mephisto and spent time listening to Commander and Apex, curiously I have never heard any of the Antileon variants but I bet the new Revelation is pretty amazing, and if you've ordered one I'm sure that you'll be pleased. IMO all of the Gryphon products I've heard have been impressive.

I still haven't heard a 333 yet either but a dealer that I know is of the opinion that it is 'better' (whatever that might mean) than the Essence pre/power combo. Personally, I really liked the Essence pre/power but agree that the power amp could have been a bit more punchy. Technology advancements must count for something and clearly there will be trickledown from Apex but it would be an interesting decision for Gryphon to put out a product like the 333 in direct competition/superior to all of the rest of its lineup but the Apex - that seems a little unlikely?

Whatever, I'm happy with my Pandora/Mephisto and whilst I could be tempted by a Commander I don't see me changing to an Apex - the cost jump is just too large.

 

[ApUk25]

I've owned 300, Essence, Pandora and Mephisto and spent time listening to Commander and Apex, curiously I have never heard any of the Antileon variants but I bet the new Revelation is pretty amazing, and if you've ordered one I'm sure that you'll be pleased. IMO all of the Gryphon products I've heard have been impressive.

I still haven't heard a 333 yet either but a dealer that I know is of the opinion that it is 'better' (whatever that might mean) than the Essence pre/power combo. Personally, I really liked the Essence pre/power but agree that the power amp could have been a bit more punchy. Technology advancements must count for something and clearly there will be trickledown from Apex but it would be an interesting decision for Gryphon to put out a product like the 333 in direct competition/superior to all of the rest of its lineup but the Apex - that seems a little unlikely?

Whatever, I'm happy with my Pandora/Mephisto and whilst I could be tempted by a Commander I don't see me changing to an Apex - the cost jump is just too large.

This is the exact reasoning I went with that the 333 can’t better than the more expensive line up
And the apex and commander should
Be a lot better before I placed an order without having listened to an apex ,
However there is the argument that they are likely to sell many more 333’s Than apexes and the overall profit at the end of the year may be greater on 333 sales so In terms of diminishing returns bang for buck on investment the 333 is probably the best in the gryphon line up especially if u then add the dac and phono stage modules for 10k your laughing

 

[JiminGa]

My Revelation finally shipped from the EU 12/5. This time of year to go from dealer to me I’d guess I’ll have it in 2-3 weeks

 

[wfolio]

I just upgraded my Gryphon Essence preamp and monoblocks to Commander and Apex last week. I also struggled for some time to decide between the Apex and the Antileon.

 

[JiminGa]

I just upgraded my Gryphon Essence preamp and monoblocks to Commander and Apex last week. I also struggled for some time to decide between the Apex and the Antileon.
View attachment 162700

That’s got to be great!

 

[ApUk25]

I just upgraded my Gryphon Essence preamp and monoblocks to Commander and Apex last week. I also struggled for some time to decide between the Apex and the Antileon.
View attachment 162700

Stunning setup how does it sound
Compared to the essence is it as musical
I guess power and control are a given

 

[LL21]

I just upgraded my Gryphon Essence preamp and monoblocks to Commander and Apex last week. I also struggled for some time to decide between the Apex and the Antileon.
View attachment 162700

Wow…congrats! Are those Martens a current model? They look new. What were your prior speakers…curious as to how you find them and how you find they mate with your Gryphons.

 

[wfolio]

Upgrading from the Essence and choosing between the Antileon and Apex highlights the nuances in the ontology of musicality and neutrality. The headroom of the Apex unlocks my speakers’ full performance and raises the threshold of their limitations. I’m very happy with this upgrade.

 

[JiminGa]

Upgrading from the Essence and choosing between the Antileon and Apex highlights the nuances in the ontology of musicality and neutrality. The headroom of the Apex unlocks my speakers’ full performance and raises the threshold of their limitations. I’m very happy with this upgrade.

Some people think an amp should produce as few watts as you can get away with (and make them really count) but like you I am a big believer in serious headroom. Your Apex has that in spades!

 

[aangen]

The Apex is only a 210

Some people think an amp should produce as few watts as you can get away with (and make them really count) but like you I am a big believer in serious headroom. Your Apex has that in spades!

The Apex Stereo is only rated at 210 watts per channel. Class A watts but still. For mega power the Diablo 333 would do. LOL

 

[Ricky64]

Upgrading from the Essence and choosing between the Antileon and Apex highlights the nuances in the ontology of musicality and neutrality. The headroom of the Apex unlocks my speakers’ full performance and raises the threshold of their limitations. I’m very happy with this upgrade.

Curious, do you notice differences at lower listening levels?