New Gryphon Amp coming!

[ApUk25]

That’s some se

ApUk25 said:
Also the mephisto monos were making the room soo hot in full bias so the halcro was a welcome change

That I could totally believe. We have Robert Koda K160 Monos now (235 Watts Pure Class into 4ohms). 1100 watts constant draw from the wall. Beautiful and in the UK manageable given the temperatures

 

[ApUk25]

That’s some serious amplification what speakers are you driving with them

 

[LL21]

That’s some serious amplification what speakers are you driving with them

Wilson XLFs alongside a single Velodyne DD18+ running in parallel. I am thinking hard about a major upgrade in the bass...your magnificent REL 32s certainly on the list, along with the Wilson Benesch IGXs and Perlisten D215Ss.

 

[microstrip]

(...) ...your magnificent REL 32s certainly on the list, along with the Wilson Benesch IGXs and Perlisten D215Ss.

Do you know that a pair of Wilson Benesch IGXs it will cost you around euro 60k?

 

[heihei]

Yep bonkers prices compared to the old Torus! Paid £5k for my pair off eBay a few years' ago!

 

[ApUk25]

Wilson XLFs alongside a single Velodyne DD18+ running in parallel. I am thinking hard about a major upgrade in the bass...your magnificent REL 32s certainly on the list, along with the Wilson Benesch IGXs and Perlisten D215Ss.

Wow seriously high end system
My dealers raves about Perlisten having DSp So easy To integrate says they are the best on the market
And I think you can get a pretty good deal on them normally

 

[LL21]

Wow seriously high end system
My dealers raves about Perlisten having DSp So easy To integrate says they are the best on the market
And I think you can get a pr

Do you know that a pair of Wilson Benesch IGXs it will cost you around euro 60k?

Yes, aware and agree with both of you...you could get 3 Perlisten D215Ss for the price of 1 IGX. Yikes.

 

[LL21]

Wow seriously high end system
My dealers raves about Perlisten having DSp So easy To integrate says they are the best on the market
And I think you can get a pretty good deal on them normally

Thank you! That is super helpful, and I have heard/read nothing but all-out superlatives. Certainly a great place to start and possibly finish. The key is whether I will want to cut off the XLFs below 45hz-48hz +/- as my dealer is strongly recommending we try using the Wilson XOver.

 

[ApUk25]

Thank you! That is super helpful, and I have heard/read nothing but all-out superlatives. Certainly a great place to start and possibly finish. The key is whether I will want to cut off the XLFs below 45hz-48hz +/- as my dealer is strongly recommending we try using the Wilson XOver.

I guess won’t know till you try it , we’re in the UK ARE U based ime in Cornwall

 

[aangen]

The Diablo 333 is an absolute stunner. I have heard it so many times. Any speakers, driven by any other amplifier, (maybe not Commander and Apex), will sound so very much better. The 333 is absolute magic. And it requires one less pair of interconnects. I really want to own one, I look for an excuse and I just can't find one. Many of my friends have listened to me rave and purchased a 333. None of them can actually believe it once they get it. Everyone says "During the break-in process it will get better???". Yep, accept this.

I want to be one of them but owning the Commander, Apex, Ethos, and PowerZone I just can't justify it. If any of you are getting near that point where separates take up so much room, consider the 333. If you lack separates and desire them, The Commander and Apex seem nice.

 

[ApUk25]

The Diablo 333 is an absolute stunner. I have heard it so many times. Any speakers, driven by any other amplifier, (maybe not Commander and Apex), will sound so very much better. The 333 is absolute magic. And it requires one less pair of interconnects. I really want to own one, I look for an excuse and I just can't find one. Many of my friends have listened to me rave and purchased a 333. None of them can actually believe it once they get it. Everyone says "During the break-in process it will get better???". Yep, accept this.

I want to be one of them but owning the Commander, Apex, Ethos, and PowerZone I just can't justify it. If any of you are getting near that point where separates take up so much room, consider the 333. If you lack separates and desire them, The Commander and Apex seem nice.

I know exactly what you mean for me it sounded better than the antillion or the mephistos with commander but I guess they are both 13 year old tech compared to
The 333 which is meant to be a mini APEX in terms of sonics
Maybe I’ll get one for a second room

 

[JiminGa]

I know exactly what you mean for me it sounded better than the antillion or the mephistos with commander but I guess they are both 13 year old tech compared to
The 333 which is meant to be a mini APEX in terms of sonics
Maybe I’ll get one for a second room

I really don't understand this. The 333 was never meant to be a mini Apex. One is a pure class A power amp and one is a class AB integrated with no actual design overlap. The 333 only outputs 10 watts in class A before switching over to AB. I have extensively listened to every Gryphon amp since the original Antileon back in the 90s . I've owned various Gryphons since 1999. I've listened to the 120, 300 and 333. A lot. They are fantastic AB integrated amps but they Flemming never claimed they were competitive with his class A designs. He was making a more affordable AB integrated. The Mephisto has its faults. It's a little "dry' but has tremendous grip. I would guess that it will be replaced in 2026 with a true mini Apex. The Evo is light years ahead of the original Antileon or the Antileon Signature in every way especially the treble. The new Revelation is actually a lot more like a mini Apex. It now has the exact same transistors as Apex. Same IECs. Same binding posts. New circuit board. New input stage. These changes were intentional to replicate as much of the Apex as possible. The 333 has absolutely nothing in common with Apex. Class AB vs. A. Different everything. Sonically class A and AB are very different. It is the best AB integrated I've heard but it was never meant to be a mini Apex sonically. Ask Rune about that. It's a totally different beast with a totally different mission. Yes, it's fantastic for what it is. I'm not trying to be argumentative but for the people reading I wanted people to understand the design differences. You can prefer the 333. That's fine. I would go as far as saying that a 333 would be a great foundation for anyone wanting to spend more elsewhere but if cost is no object I would buy any of Gryphons Class A amps in a heartbeat.

 

[Ricky64]

I am intrigued by this also. I've inquired with several different dealers about the 333 vs Essence separates, and (while acknowledging there may be bias for price heirarchy) there has been a preference for Essence separates. The knock on the latter is bass response, which can be lacking a bit.
I suspect based on personal preference and system matching, the Essence is going to be be more liquid in the mids and highs, while still being neutral, while the 333 iwill be superior in the lower frequencies.

 

[JiminGa]

I am intrigued by this also. I've inquired with several different dealers about the 333 vs Essence separates, and (while acknowledging there may be bias for price heirarchy) there has been a preference for Essence separates. The knock on the latter is bass response, which can be lacking a bit.
I suspect based on personal preference and system matching, the Essence is going to be be more liquid in the mids and highs, while still being neutral, while the 333 iwill be superior in the lower frequencies.

The issue with the Essence bass (potentially) involves the sensitivity and impedance curve of the mated speaker. A speaker with low sensitivity and impedance minima (usually in lower frequencies) would make it very difficult to keep up and would lack any headroom for large transients. You would hear this as less bass and higher distortion. 50 watts is borderline for many current dynamic speakers. Simple as that.

 

[nonesup]

You have an interesting decision to make. Either option will be a significant upgrade. Sharing the same tweeter/midrange is not the way to think about the Lynx. The cabinets internal volume coupled with the 10 inch woofer make it play MUCH bigger. The cabinets construction being much quieter allows you to hear much deeper into the recording resulting in much better resolution. On the other hand while Rockports sensitivity is 90db their impedance minimus is usually in the low 2s in the 50hz range. This means your Essence is struggling to play linearly and with low distortion when you really turn up the volume. A Revelation would really help with this. Part of your decision tree needs to be how far you typically push your amplifier. If it were me I would buy Lynx and then eventually look for a used Evo which you could pick up for under 25k. There is a gentleman Sorren Wintrup here in the US who is an expert working on Gryphons if you are worried about out of warranty repairs sometime in the future.

This value of 2 Ohms at 50 Hz, I assume, is for the Lynx. Do you also have the minimum impedance data for the Atria?

 

[JiminGa]

This value of 2 Ohms at 50 Hz, I assume, is for the Lynx. Do you also have the minimum impedance data for the Atria?

This value of 2 Ohms at 50 Hz, I assume, is for the Lynx. Do you also have the minimum impedance data for the Atria?

That came from the Orion measurements. I can find out about Lynx and Atria.

 

[nonesup]

Yes, I would be very interested, because Rockport doesn't publish that information.

 

[Laurusri]

I really don't understand this. The 333 was never meant to be a mini Apex. One is a pure class A power amp and one is a class AB integrated with no actual design overlap. The 333 only outputs 10 watts in class A before switching over to AB. I have extensively listened to every Gryphon amp since the original Antileon back in the 90s . I've owned various Gryphons since 1999. I've listened to the 120, 300 and 333. A lot. They are fantastic AB integrated amps but they Flemming never claimed they were competitive with his class A designs. He was making a more affordable AB integrated. The Mephisto has its faults. It's a little "dry' but has tremendous grip. I would guess that it will be replaced in 2026 with a true mini Apex. The Evo is light years ahead of the original Antileon or the Antileon Signature in every way especially the treble. The new Revelation is actually a lot more like a mini Apex. It now has the exact same transistors as Apex. Same IECs. Same binding posts. New circuit board. New input stage. These changes were intentional to replicate as much of the Apex as possible. The 333 has absolutely nothing in common with Apex. Class AB vs. A. Different everything. Sonically class A and AB are very different. It is the best AB integrated I've heard but it was never meant to be a mini Apex sonically. Ask Rune about that. It's a totally different beast with a totally different mission. Yes, it's fantastic for what it is. I'm not trying to be argumentative but for the people reading I wanted people to understand the design differences. You can prefer the 333. That's fine. I would go as far as saying that a 333 would be a great foundation for anyone wanting to spend more elsewhere but if cost is no object I would buy any of Gryphons Class A amps in a heartbeat.

Copy/paste from Gryphon web site:
Circuit advancements and parts from the new Apex and Commander, Gryphon’s flagship Amplifier and Preamplifier, have “Trickled-Down” to the Diablo 333. New, ultra-fast, pre-driver transistors deliver both enhanced musicality and superior measured performance while output devices—ten per channel—are identical to those found in our State-of-the-Art Apex.

I assume you know, the working point can be adjusted as needed, and the 333 is adjusted to AB class.

 

[JiminGa]

Copy/paste from Gryphon web site:
Circuit advancements and parts from the new Apex and Commander, Gryphon’s flagship Amplifier and Preamplifier, have “Trickled-Down” to the Diablo 333. New, ultra-fast, pre-driver transistors deliver both enhanced musicality and superior measured performance while output devices—ten per channel—are identical to those found in our State-of-the-Art Apex.

I assume you know, the working point can be adjusted as needed, and the 333 is adjusted to AB class.

The pre driver transistors. 10 per channel. Then

Copy/paste from Gryphon web site:
Circuit advancements and parts from the new Apex and Commander, Gryphon’s flagship Amplifier and Preamplifier, have “Trickled-Down” to the Diablo 333. New, ultra-fast, pre-driver transistors deliver both enhanced musicality and superior measured performance while output devices—ten per channel—are identical to those found in our State-of-the-Art Apex.

I assume you know, the working point can be adjusted as needed, and the 333 is adjusted to AB class.

The

Copy/paste from Gryphon web site:
Circuit advancements and parts from the new Apex and Commander, Gryphon’s flagship Amplifier and Preamplifier, have “Trickled-Down” to the Diablo 333. New, ultra-fast, pre-driver transistors deliver both enhanced musicality and superior measured performance while output devices—ten per channel—are identical to those found in our State-of-the-Art Apex.

I assume you know, the working point can be adjusted as needed, and the 333 is adjusted to AB class.

The 333 has 10 transistors and 68,000 mf /channel and amplifies in AB after 10 watts. Stereophile has the measurements for you to look at. It transitions to AB at 10 watts/8ohns. The Revelation has 40 transistors and 335,000 mf/channel. It never converts to AB at full bias. Over 1200 watts of pure class A into 1 ohm loads. They are completely different beasts. The reason Gryphon spent so much effort on the transistors and power supply on the Revelation is so that it will stay in class A under all circumstances. Gryphons whole philosophy is that class A creates better sound than AB. I agree with them. You may not which is ok. The 333 was not designed for this and is not capable of it. I really like the 333. A lot. I could easily see building a system around it but it is an AB integrated with moderate A biasing. I have heard the Apex, Evo, Mephisto, 333, 300, 120 many many times. I've heard the original Antileon, the Signature and the Coliseum. Each has its own pluses and minuses. if you are looking for ultimate sound qualitiy get the power amps. My friends with 333s love them but go to any of my friends with Apex and you will see/hear that they are not similar. Is the 333 maybe a better "value"? Yes. I recommend it to anyone who wants to keep the box count and the price down.

 

[ApUk25]

I really don't understand this. The 333 was never meant to be a mini Apex. One is a pure class A power amp and one is a class AB integrated with no actual design overlap. The 333 only outputs 10 watts in class A before switching over to AB. I have extensively listened to every Gryphon amp since the original Antileon back in the 90s . I've owned various Gryphons since 1999. I've listened to the 120, 300 and 333. A lot. They are fantastic AB integrated amps but they Flemming never claimed they were competitive with his class A designs. He was making a more affordable AB integrated. The Mephisto has its faults. It's a little "dry' but has tremendous grip. I would guess that it will be replaced in 2026 with a true mini Apex. The Evo is light years ahead of the original Antileon or the Antileon Signature in every way especially the treble. The new Revelation is actually a lot more like a mini Apex. It now has the exact same transistors as Apex. Same IECs. Same binding posts. New circuit board. New input stage. These changes were intentional to replicate as much of the Apex as possible. The 333 has absolutely nothing in common with Apex. Class AB vs. A. Different everything. Sonically class A and AB are very different. It is the best AB integrated I've heard but it was never meant to be a mini Apex sonically. Ask Rune about that. It's a totally different beast with a totally different mission. Yes, it's fantastic for what it is. I'm not trying to be argumentative but for the people reading I wanted people to understand the design differences. You can prefer the 333. That's fine. I would go as far as saying that a 333 would be a great foundation for anyone wanting to spend more elsewhere but if cost is no object I would buy any of Gryphons Class A amps in a heartbeat.

Mate not sure what’s wound you up so much it’s only my opinion and i am entitled to it
From
What I’ve read the 333 has the the same Toshiba transistors as the apex the same binding posts and There actually a 333 video on you tube with rune stating that an apex and commander owner on
Listening to it referred to the 333 as a
Mini apex , either ways I’ve got an apex and commander arriving imminently and I will probably also get a 333 for one of my other lounges so I’ll make up my own mind