Why are you so obsessed with pictures of systems? I have numerous systems in my house. For the big one, Imagine an MBL 101 system on a long wall, biamped by symphonic line Kraft (effortless dynamics) and CAT pre (tone), with different dacs for different flavors. I hope that satisfies some of your curiosity. Why not stick to the subject at hand?Nobel prize winner level decision making ???
Then make the simple decision to post a picture of your system , so we all know your not a AI robot
Is Wilson losing their marketing edge?
- Thread starter caesar
- Start date
What a disappointing cop-out.
There is no "hate speech."
A professor who can't read over 5,000 words? Some professor!
The fact that it's AI massaged does not make the essay substantively, factually or conceptionally inaccurate.
Well, it seems WBF owners are above moderators, TOS or any rules in WBF. We are learning every day.
Nice try to start a mud fight, I will not enter it.
Fortunately any of my students, many times disagreeing with my points of view, were sometimes irreverent, were never insulting.
Sure, you are correct: I didn’t perform field research. But in application of theory , based on observation of audiophile actions over many years- as we see on this very site , this is rock solid.
As I mentioned, I wanted to put my thoughts down as one cohesive think piece, rather than bits and pieces that could get misinterpreted. Plus, this is totally original.
PS. Additionally, in all honesty, since no one has ever written a piece like this in the context of high end audio, I wanted to get it out there , in case I get permanently banned
Some people might take exception with some of your specific examples. Regardless, in its general direction it is a good think piece, for sure, an interesting and compelling read. Of course you get pushback, but that's part of the game.
Please don’t club me with Ron on audiophile wisdom. On other topics it would be an honor.
You forgot Marc. He is still sticking to the Zus though the whole herd tried to get him off it
I appreciated Caesar’s long and thoughtful essay (diatribe?).He brings forward several pertinent points that are relevant to any company’s commercial success such as product quality, re-sale value, marketing and group think, but also omits or minimizes some key issues. To begin, Wilson does indeed make fine loudspeakers. But so do many other manufacturers. My main contention with Caesar’s perspective is that I don’t think people aren’t stupid and as much as he may believe otherwise, and are even less stupid when they are spending 50K or 100+K on loudspeakers. Do you really believe their purchase is primarily based on reading a review or group think? I firmly disagree because I believe their choice will be grounded primarily in what they hear and not what others think or say.
Contrary to what Caesar believes, the best way make the decision what to buy is not to listen to 4 or 5 brands or different designs, but to listen to live music and then ask yourself if that’s what you are trying to reproduce at home. You’d be surprised that the answers are not as uniform as you think they might be or what you would say. Some folks frankly don’t care about trying to reproduce the sound of unamplified music in their homes. If your source material is electronic or pop music or if your objective is to foster a club like environment that mimics a dance hall, your criteria for buying speakers will surely vary considerably and Wilson may not be your preference at all. Wilson’s sonic strength is the pedigree of David Wilson, his listening biases and the quality of the product they make. When he says he wants his midrange to sound like the way he hears music played at Musikverein in Vienna, that speaks volumes and may just underscore why people are attracted to the sound of Wilson speakers once they hear them. That bias is hardly relevant to support an argument that their success over decades is based on good or bad group think, or marketing, or positive reviewer comments. Rather, their success is based primarily on one thing- the sound and performance of their product line crafted from the specific vision and execution of the company’s founder (and now his successor, Daryl).
While Caesar’s essay was compelling, but I don’t think it requires much deep thinking or is it necessary to propose multi-faceted lesser elements to explain why they’ve achieved the commercial success that is surely the envy of many other companies. You don’t have to look much further than what is obvious- they simply make a very good speaker (as you yourself have said) that people like. End of story. Therefore, I’m afraid I’d have to conclude your argument is hardly bullet-proof and is unnecessarily complicated. It was however, a thoughtful perspective that was enjoyable to read.
Contrary to what Caesar believes, the best way make the decision what to buy is not to listen to 4 or 5 brands or different designs, but to listen to live music and then ask yourself if that’s what you are trying to reproduce at home. You’d be surprised that the answers are not as uniform as you think they might be or what you would say. Some folks frankly don’t care about trying to reproduce the sound of unamplified music in their homes. If your source material is electronic or pop music or if your objective is to foster a club like environment that mimics a dance hall, your criteria for buying speakers will surely vary considerably and Wilson may not be your preference at all. Wilson’s sonic strength is the pedigree of David Wilson, his listening biases and the quality of the product they make. When he says he wants his midrange to sound like the way he hears music played at Musikverein in Vienna, that speaks volumes and may just underscore why people are attracted to the sound of Wilson speakers once they hear them. That bias is hardly relevant to support an argument that their success over decades is based on good or bad group think, or marketing, or positive reviewer comments. Rather, their success is based primarily on one thing- the sound and performance of their product line crafted from the specific vision and execution of the company’s founder (and now his successor, Daryl).
While Caesar’s essay was compelling, but I don’t think it requires much deep thinking or is it necessary to propose multi-faceted lesser elements to explain why they’ve achieved the commercial success that is surely the envy of many other companies. You don’t have to look much further than what is obvious- they simply make a very good speaker (as you yourself have said) that people like. End of story. Therefore, I’m afraid I’d have to conclude your argument is hardly bullet-proof and is unnecessarily complicated. It was however, a thoughtful perspective that was enjoyable to read.
The fact that Dave Wilson went to Vienna and got an epiphany and made a speaker that sounds like classical in Vienna is hilarious that his fans believe.
Amsterdam, Berlin, London, US etc orchestras must be disappointed they don’t sound like Wilson’s
Amsterdam, Berlin, London, US etc orchestras must be disappointed they don’t sound like Wilson’s
Your obsessive refusal to disclose anything about yourself causes me, for one, and, I'm sure, many others, to discount everything you post.
We should remember that Wilson Audio has a large and competent network of high-end dealers and distributors around the world where audiophiles can easily listen to their products.
So, the Ryanair marketing style strategy can be applied - “It’s not important that people say nice things about us; what matters most is that they talk about us.”
IMO this type of thread helps their success ... Magico and Sonus Faber should be envious!
Magico has their fanboys on WBF although not as many as in years past.. Sonus Faber, not so much now. Not sure why but exposure could be the issue as you suggest. But horns?? Heh, heh, heh. They're everywhere!
Ryanair clearly gives a value in terms of price, reliability of time (compared to BA) and different airports
That’s the key. In Kotler’s 4ps of marketing, Place (distribution) is what Wilson is better at than others. Like Coke and Pepsi.
Oh please. Dave Wilson was not stupid enough to believe an orchestra could be faithfully reproduced by any transducer. Nor are you foolish enough to believe anyone's hyperbole. But at least Dave Wilson was smart enough to know he could never reproduce the sound of a Steinway D with a horn. It's unfortunate that you never got to experience a Wilson speaker that impressed you, which I'm betting is probably due to the fact you have never heard one set-up properly for your listening height. However, there's one awaiting you in NJ that could easily be adjusted to accommodate you if you ever want to stop by.
Is there any documented evidence of how his speaker design changed before and after the trip to Vienna? Or was it by the same amount my biceps changed before and after watching Ronnie Coleman’s video?
Apart from the fact that it should be obvious that classical epiphanies don’t hit this way by visit to one hall unless he had minimal exposure to classical before, which is likely. For a person with genuine classical understanding would already have that template from various exposures.
Ps: David Haigher who lives in Vienna dabbled a lot in acoustics of their hall, and additionally makes horns as a hobby and business.
Very well put, Marty. Try to understand one's goals before, not after, a purchase. I do think it is wise to hear a variety of speaker types with those goals in mind. For some of us it is a lesson to learn.
Wilson understands the heritage of their success as witnessed by its continuation. One does not need to be a Wilson owner to appreciate that.
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