THE HIFI FIVE ROUNDTABLE DISCUSSION STREAMING LIVE ON YOUTUBE PREMIERING IN OCTOBER!

[microstrip]

(...) OTOH negative tweak bias = ignorance. which is my point. if that subject comes up only someone who has done them in a mature system can defend them. and a big part of tweaking is reaching the point of a stable mature system. in other words, when to do tweaks is a big part of whether they actually do something.

and another word for tweaks is 'system tuning'......or even 'tweak-tuning'. which again requires a stable system. the hifi retail/manufacturing environment is not friendly to it. and it's not sexy to talk about by influencers or dealers as it's hard to sell. they need pretty boxes.

We can always have a different perspective, equally valid IMO, that tweaks are only needed when we are not able to master all the fundamental aspects properly. I do not consider that negative tweak bias = ignorance.
But ignoring the effects of some tweaks is surely ignorance.

The high end is an hobby and we can have very different ways of enjoying it.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

We can always have a different perspective, equally valid IMO, that tweaks are only needed when we are not able to master all the fundamental aspects properly.

respect your personal opinion. which is all it is.

I do not consider that negative tweak bias = ignorance.

ones they have not tried they are ignorant of. OTOH they could be right about not trying it.

But ignoring the effects of some tweaks is surely ignorance.

The high end is an hobby and we can have very different ways of enjoying it.

i'm not making a case defending any particular tweaks.

 

[treitz3]

Thanks for the circular answer.

Hi, I did not give a circular answer. You asked a simple question and I offered a simple answer.

We can't put everyone in the same class. Some people measure a lot of things that audiophiles did not even dream about. There is life in measurements beyond the Stereophile section of measurements and their simplistic interpretation. Designers and manufacturers carry a lot of elaborated and proprietary measurements that are not released to the public. Current top audio analyzers are extremely powerful and give us a lot of information.

Audio measurements is a very complex technical subject and can't be translated in easily understood consumer talk. Unfortunately the audio press and the audio marketing use them mostly in a promotional way, giving people a false idea of their capabilities.

I don't quite know what you are looking to debate here, or why. I presented a theory of mine to answer Elliot's query on post 121. Nothing more, nothing less. I understand fully that some of the measurements delve deeper into what we ultimately hear. My answer was my own theory as to why. This wouldn't be the appropriate thread to discuss this anyways.

Tom

 

[Ron Resnick]

I thought the masters and makers interviews were really a model of how it should be done. Always very informative and asked relevant, straightforward questions

Thank you!

 

[Elliot G.]

I have an opinion, but its not for me to tell someone else what they hear. If cable performance enhancers or tuning crystals deliver a more enjoyable listening experience for someone, that's what its all about. Good for them-I don't pass judgment on how someone else chooses to spend their money. Too many people in this hobby claim a monopoly on being right. Knowing where a panelist, or reviewer, draws these lines, however, provides context to better understand their point of view. Which is why I raised the question during the show.

I agree it is not for me either to tell people what they like or how to spend their money. I do not promote such items but as a dealer if a company makes these things and someone wants to buy I will take their order. I don't go down the rabbit hole there but I do with getting the system set up correctly. I think this is far more important . I think tweaks for many are fun and something that the can do without spending huge amounts or actually doing serious work.( not meant as an insult just what I have observed)
If you buy salt lamps, and ferrities, and cable elevators and want to make homemade contraptions to do all sorts of things if it makes you happy then go ahead, i feel like I ll focus on the larger items required to get the best results. I want to be really honest here most people do not do that, they really do not know how to get the best results. I mean no offense as this forum has more experienced listeners but these are facts the result are really self evident.
As Clint Eastwood said " a man has to know his limitations" this is not a bad thing in fact it is the best way to grow and get better at almost anything

Now let me strap on my colander coated with tin foil antennas and go listen

 

[microstrip]

(....) As Clint Eastwood said " a man has to know his limitations" this is not a bad thing in fact it is the best way to grow and get better at almost anything

Now let me strap on my colander coated with tin foil antennas and go listen

Oops! Are you saying that there are ethical and legal limits to tweaks?

Sorry, I could not resist!

 

[Elliot G.]

Oops! Are you saying that there are ethical and legal limits to tweaks?

Sorry, I could not resist!

"this being a 44 magnum and the most power handgun which could blow your head clean off you need to ask yourself Do you feel lucky punk? "

I think however if I wind the tin foil counter clockwise the cymbals have less shine LMAO

 

[Ron Resnick]

Elliot, don't you mean:

"This being a Gobel Divin Majestic and the most powerful 18" driver in the world which could blow your hair clean off you need to ask yourself 'Do you feel lucky, audiophile?'"

 

[Al Stewart]

I watched episode six. As someone who has had audio systems at varying levels of price and performance, I share this observation that wasn’t discussed. Most audio hobbyists I know haven’t stayed with their original gear. Why not? Generally, it isn’t because they “saw" different performance specifications that moved them to make an additional purchase. In almost every circumstance it appears they “heard" different gear that sounded better to their ears. I’m not talking about the billionaire and millionaire class who may buy for status and possibly aren’t deeply interested in sound quality or haven’t listened to a lot of gear over a substantial period of time. I’m talking about the overwhelming majority of folks that own an audio rig that cost in total more than $1,000 USD. Either Dennis is right and they (we) are all simply fools and he and others like him are the wise sages that know better. Or he and those in his camp are unwilling to accept aural sensory perceptions they cannot explain as still being very real and directly attributable to the gear that produces those sensory perceptions.

Elliot is spot on in his repeated mantra that this is a listening hobby not a hearing hobby. The best analogy belonged to Eliot when he likened Dennis’ switch model comparisons to two different frozen pizzas. A switch designed to focus on minimizing a noisy network is built differently than a switch that doesn’t view minimizing noise as mission critical for audio sound quality. Most folks using a switch aren’t using it to maximize their audio enjoyment. Dennis acknowledged noise as a reality and then hand-waved the issue away by pointing to “uncorrupted packets”. Wrong focus. Here is a link from almost a decade ago pointing out all the steps where noise can and does affect a network signal.
https://www.benchu-group.com/how-to-solve-the-problem-of-signal-interference-causing-network-noise I have A/B/A/B/A tested different network switches in my system over time. I am not a gear churner. But I do know how to “listen” critically. In my system I could easily discern the presence or absence of a high quality switch—without me being the one determining which switch I was listening to during the process. IMO if a person can’t hear the difference a high quality switch makes in their system, then they probably have a very large amount of noise being generated elsewhere in their system that is masking the reduction in noise provided by the high quality switch. The other possibility is the person isn’t accomplished at knowing how to critically listen. That is not meant to be a slight or jab at anyone. If you can’t hear a difference, save the money and carry on—I agree it is a foolish decision to buy something simply because the world around you is buying it.

 

[Elliot G.]

Elliot, don't you mean:

"This being a Gobel Divin Majestic and the most powerful 18" driver in the world which could blow your hair clean off you need to ask yourself 'Do you feel lucky, audiophile?'"

No Ron I don’t