Mark Levinson on today’s audio industry
- Thread starter bonzo75
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Now I understand. I think it’s a fair debate about value/$ spent. For me it’s worth the investment given my goals/preferences and resources I’m willing to commit. I fully understand that others with other values/tastes would not think it is. My opinion only as the subject was brought up. I respect your opinion
I had similar cabinets in my Magico mini II. Built to be extremely stiff and non-resonant given all of the epoxy between the layers of the Baltic birch plywood. It’s almost like it’s a plastic speaker with wood fibers in the epoxy mix. I did like the look. The big thing was the aluminum baffle in which the drivers were mounted and the clamping system with the rear baffle which made the whole box extremely stiff. They also talked a lot about the importance of the stand and the driver materials. Well, apparently the cabinet was not inert enough because Magico switched to all aluminum boxes with extensive internal bracing. Now their cabinets are even more inert with carbon fiber and aluminum baffles.
No it's not about value spend either. You can't keep putting lipstick on a pig, costlier and denser and more coats of lipstick, and think it makes an improvement. It makes a difference, for sure. It is not about value spend. It is worthless and just a marketing tool to make consumers pay up, because they think a more inert cabinet will get the orchestra in the room and get Led Zep to reunite. It is not going to happen.
Lot of consumers think in terms of linearity - previous noisy cabinet to quieter cabinet made a difference, so keep quietening it to make more difference. There was a time when people kept piling Stillpoints, one guy had isolation platforms on top of stillpoints and more stillpoints on that isolation platform. He heard a difference with each addition, sure, but his overall sound did not improve. It just went sideways, which it what it usually does.
Hard to know from that level of research. How many have they made? Do they get traded in? Do they get sold quietly? I once asked somebody why he thought there were so many amplifiers from Pass labs listed on the Internet for sale. He said one simple reason. They sell more amplifiers than anyone else. And secondarily, people like to upgrade within the line, so they sell one amplifier to buy another.
Now, I don’t know about speakers. As I wrote, I would be interested in seeing the results of such a study or survey or even having the discussion.
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This is an excellent point. The broader choice of amplification with some speakers is a huge advantage.
It’s not an argument Al. It is a post that supports my comment about the difficulty of hearing the differences in cabinet material on a system video in part because we see very few videos of these speakers with inert cabinets.
Yes, I posted a lot of videos of my old speakers. In fact, much of my system set up improvements were basically guided by sharing videos documenting various changes to people whom I trusted. This is when I was convinced that system videos are a great tool by which to judge certain aspects of system performance when listeners cannot hear the system in person.
People claim system videos don’t represent the sound of the system. I suspect that some just don’t have the confidence to post videos of their systems. It is a choice and a risk.
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Isolation strategies can not be randomly applied. Very few know how to do it properly so that it actually does make a difference. Not sure which pig you’re referring to but Led Zeppelin isn’t reuniting for obvious reasons. I listen to music every day and have so for over 60 years. I started buying gear in 1976. For decades I had season tickets at Chastain amphitheater. I travel to listen to live music. I visit every hole in the wall. I travel all over to listen to other people’s systems. I am typing this in the New Orleans airport where I just spent several days at multiple live venues each day soaking in the best sounds in the universe. I hear a difference clearly and obviously. You are not in a position to tell me what makes a difference or not. All you can say is that it’s lost on you. Maybe with more experience it will. Why fight. Next time you’re in Atlanta come by for a listen. Drinks are in me. Until then let’s agree to disagree. Peace. (I remember when Zepplin 1st came out. Loved it. Left it. Now I’m back to it.)
Yours don't. I know that because I have heard both your system in person and your system videos.
Which makes my point.
Same with Ron’s system in person vs his videos, BTW.
Nonsense. A lot of people who don't post videos have explained their entirely rational reasons for not doing so. You may not accept those rational reasons, but that is no justification to come up with a silly argument that tries to bully people into posting videos or to shame them for not doing so. You are not the only video proponent with this tactic, BTW. Makes you wonder what that says about the video crowd...
Curious that people still rely on their sensory feeling of stiff and non-resonant concerning speaker boxes. Since long proper instruments used in speaker development have shown how they misleading can be.
Sorry, no it isn't at all. These is fairy tale version of speaker technology.
Me too. I have listened to my old pair a few months ago.
Again, apparent stiffness and inert is just the tip of the iceberg. It is much more complex than that. I suggest you read the old papers of Goldmumd on aluminum boxes, bracing and mechanical diodes if you are interested on the subject.
Surely high-end marketing must be written in simple terms that people memorize easily and feel they understand. Enough to help us buying things but not enough to debate them.
Thanks.. No offence I don't visit digital only systems anymore, and not analog ones with WA, Magico, Rockport, etc...heard them too many times. No change.
Devore, old tannoys, electrostats, audionec evo 2, something llike Treehaus fieldcoil (which I haven't heard), horns, especially custom built horns, or modifications of vintage, trips to help understand SUTs, records, low watt amps and their components (transformers etc). So if you ever go that way, will hop over. Some cones in there if they are analog centric. If a record-led audiophile wanted to show me something not on my radar, that too.
Or systems whose videos attract interest. There are video threads, people can post. Let's start with videos which sound better than this 10k system. https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/system-for-under-us-10-000-msrp.38228/post-1082846
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It’s not Mark saying it is Richard Vandersteen. The mark L part is old, I added the Richard v part to it earlier yesterday (or today depending on time zone). Both essentially calling out the practices in the industry
I knew that. But it slipped my mind being the title was Mark L. I do respect Vanderstein. But I would still say no one manufacturer is the end all authority. If that were the case, there would be one best speaker. And everyone would be trying to mimic it.
I personally believe the material and shape of the enclosure could be used to control resonant frequency of drivers. As well as standing waves in the enclosure, or pressure wave peaks and dips. That may mean something other than absolutely rigid. But figuring it out may be costly. A simple good box, good drivers as well as a good crossover can make an excellent speaker. But who is to say what is the very best speaker. Selling customers on an expensive box and components is a non questionable path. Its cost oodles to make it, so we charge oodles to putchase it.
That is incorrect. It is not 'realism', it is real. Reality is not realistic, it is real.
This touches on why rebuilt vintage or replica speakers often do not equal originals even when they match the blueprint. The same materials (wood) and joinery (glue) and technique, etc. are no longer used or available or even known. It is harder to find 'all original' originals.
May be OT at this point, but pricing in the audio industry represents what's happening in our society -- very little middle class disposable income to go after, so many more manufacturers than, say, a few decades ago, are competing where the money is at the top. And 'value' is much less of a concern by and large in the top bracket these days.
I think there's often more value to be found in Canadian or European manufacturers, countries w/much larger middle classes to appeal to.
I think there's often more value to be found in Canadian or European manufacturers, countries w/much larger middle classes to appeal to.
Who said I’m digital only? I’ve spent the last year and a half planning and purchasing analog. I’ve hit a snag recently but it should be up and running in a few months. I grew up on vinyl and I intend to die with it. I miss everything about it. If your open to some Pms I’d like to pick your brain
I don’t mind PMs. I haven’t seen analog in your signature nor posts from you on that front hence my comment. My recommendations are simple. By Dava as one cartridge, there are many you can try as the other one, Airtight opus is a safe steady bet, and spend to your heart’s content on the table. Records is a complex discussion
I think there is more value to be found in used gear.
Hmm, not sure. What about the luxury SOTA $ 300,000 dCS Varese (European) vs the great value for money offered by Schiit DACs and amps (American), for example?
Or which counter examples would you have in mind?
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