ANOTHER series of mat/clamp comparisons.

[spiritofmusic]

I had considered the Funk Firm mat. Certainly at 5mm thick it'll work here versus the 2mm Les Davis one which just isn't practical.
Thanks for reminding me about the Funk Firm.
Re whether these things *actually* make *meaningful* differences, all I can say is going from my stock Trans Fi Audio Reso mat to the Acoustic Revive RTS-30 mat I'm currently using has been a night and day improvement.
I'm somewhat biased against Funk Firm after what was in the end an unproductive experience using Arthur's Houdini cartridge de-coupler.

 

[Paul1960]

I had considered the Funk Firm mat. Certainly at 5mm thick it'll work here versus the 2mm Les Davis one which just isn't practical.
Thanks for reminding me about the Funk Firm.
Re whether these things *actually* make *meaningful* differences, all I can say is going from my stock Trans Fi Audio Reso mat to the Acoustic Revive RTS-30 mat I'm currently using has been a night and day improvement.
I'm somewhat biased against Funk Firm after what was in the end an unproductive experience using Arthur's Houdini cartridge de-coupler.

Arthur was definitely pretty self aggrandizing on the podcast which is always a warning sign. The Achromat was very cheap at TurntableLab.com so I thought it was worth taking a chance. With both that mat and the Les Davis I liked the fact that they have a clear explanation of a mechanism that makes sense and that might make a positive difference. But listening is the only real test.

 

[Anton D]

I am really looking forward to your reports!!!

 

[spiritofmusic]

Arthur was definitely pretty self aggrandizing on the podcast which is always a warning sign. The Achromat was very cheap at TurntableLab.com so I thought it was worth taking a chance. With both that mat and the Les Davis I liked the fact that they have a clear explanation of a mechanism that makes sense and that might make a positive difference. But listening is the only real test.

Arthur self aggrandising? Never! Lol.
I wish his Houdini cartridge de-coupler gave as good as his sales pitch did.
The Black Forest Audio Däd!Mät is the closest thing to the Achromat that I'm going to try, with the main difference being it'll will have a hard surface ie not floppy.

 

[spiritofmusic]

I am really looking forward to your reports!!!

Haha, I'll try and make the wait worthwhile.
Remember, as in all things audio, YMMV really is the only truthful conclusion one can make, at the same time, some the smallest details/changes can make some of the biggest differences/improvements (and detriments).
For me, the platter mat/puck choice is my last area of analog front end experimentation/tweak/modification.
I'm already getting great results with the move from my stock Trans Fi Audio Reso-mat to Acoustic Revive RTS-30 mat.
I'm just curious if very different mat approaches will produce very different outcomes.
Unfortunately, heavier mats like graphite ones, and very thin ones like the Spec, can't be considered in my system.

 

[Paul1960]

Arthur self aggrandising? Never! Lol.
I wish his Houdini cartridge de-coupler gave as good as his sales pitch did.
The Black Forest Audio Däd!Mät is the closest thing to the Achromat that I'm going to try, with the main difference being it'll will have a hard surface ie not floppy.

The Achromat that I got in the mail today definitely isn't floppy. And I was surprised to discover that it had a second hard surface laminated onto the mat as you can see in these photos. I never saw any mention of this except in the version for Technics turntables which isn't what I bought. Total thickness is 5 mm. The Technics mat is supposed to be thicker.

 

[spiritofmusic]

The Achromat that I got in the mail today definitely isn't floppy. And I was surprised to discover that it had a second hard surface laminated onto the mat as you can see in these photos. I never saw any mention of this except in the version for Technics turntables which isn't what I bought. Total thickness is 5 mm. The Technics mat is supposed to be thicker.

I think you'll find that's the APM version of the Achromat, a glass layer bonded to the 3mm mat for a total thickness of 7mm.
Tbh, I've never yet found glass works in any audio application incl hifi shelving, meaning the option of a (part) glass platter mat doesn't appeal.
Again, at 730g, too heavy for my TT.
The Black Forest Audio Däd!Mät is a variation on the bubbles-based concept of the Achromat/APM, but minus the glass sheet.

 

[Paul1960]

I think you'll find that's the APM version of the Achromat, a glass layer bonded to the 3mm mat for a total thickness of 7mm.
Tbh, I've never yet found glass works in any audio application incl hifi shelving, meaning the option of a (part) glass platter mat doesn't appeal.
Again, at 730g, too heavy for my TT.
The Black Forest Audio Däd!Mät is a variation on the bubbles-based concept of the Achromat/APM, but minus the glass sheet.

I emailed Arthur and got a response. Apparently it is the 5 mm version which they have now discontinued which explains why I got such a good price. He said "It very much outperforms the 3mm". The APM version has 4mm of that glass instead of 2mm and is 7 mm thick. I will need to adjust the height of my tonearm before I can test it. I am hearing the Les Davis Soul Mat make an improvement in the sound. It is my intention to record some samples with the various mats using my Tascam DA-3000 and post them for comment. My previous experience with the DA-3000 is that it only captures some of the nuances of these sorts of changes. We shall see.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Well, that rules out both too heavy 700g+ APM and too thin 3mm Achromat for my uses.
Actually, some Tascam recorded comparo samples is a great way to present these products, good on you for volunteering to do such critical work in this hobby, lol.
Put it this way, Fremer compares TTs in the $hundreds of thousands via digital file needledrops.

 

[Paul1960]

I think you'll find that's the APM version of the Achromat, a glass layer bonded to the 3mm mat for a total thickness of 7mm.
Tbh, I've never yet found glass works in any audio application incl hifi shelving, meaning the option of a (part) glass platter mat doesn't appeal.
Again, at 730g, too heavy for my TT.
The Black Forest Audio Däd!Mät is a variation on the bubbles-based concept of the Achromat/APM, but minus the glass sheet.

I'm not sure why you think the Achromat weighs 730 grams. My 5 mm Achromat with the 2mm glass base weighs 260 grams. The 3 mm would be a fair amount less. The 7 mm APM version would weigh more but my guess is it would be less than 420 grams but you would have to ask Funk to get a real weight. The glass part is about 10 mm smaller than the foamed acrylic.

 

[Paul1960]

Here is a link to the needle drops I made this evening of my turntable with different mat and clamp configurations. I recorded permutations of the Les Davis Soul Mat and the Funk 5 mm Achromat with and without a record weight or ring clamp. There is a text file in the directory with a full explanation of the file naming convention if you are desperate to figure out which versions of the recording correlate with which mat/weight/ring clamp setup. The most straightforward thing is to simply compare VER1, VER3, and VER7 of each track and decide what you like best. There are real differences and they are achievable at very reasonable costs but I wouldn't describe any of them as being transformative. I will say the differences are subtle enough that I don't think there is any point it listening to the tracks on your computer or phone. I copied them to a directory Roon has access to and listened on my main system which also makes it easy to compare tracks. Files are DSF and BIG! I think Yo-Yo Ma's Matsushima-Ondo track shows the clearest differences.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/wk6d...ey=6cocoqmuvwyeuqipo8z115u0z&st=voscaugz&dl=0

I don't use Dropbox to share files very often so let me know if there is a problem accessing that folder.

I would be interested in any thoughts people have. I developed a clear preference but I imagine opinions might vary.

 

[spiritofmusic]

I'm not sure why you think the Achromat weighs 730 grams. My 5 mm Achromat with the 2mm glass base weighs 260 grams. The 3 mm would be a fair amount less. The 7 mm APM version would weigh more but my guess is it would be less than 420 grams but you would have to ask Funk to get a real weight. The glass part is about 10 mm smaller than the foamed acrylic.

Sure, just what a cursory online search suggested.

 

[allvinyl]

If anyone has suggestions for carbon fiber, graphite mats, let me know.
The only ones I can find are discontinued.

Though I haven't yet had the chance to listen to the mat, as my system is down due to home renovation, I recently acquired a Oracle mat on Ralph's (atmasphere) recommendation.
https://hifiheaven.net/product/oracle-audio-hard-acrylic-mat/

 

[spiritofmusic]

If Funk can confirm the APM is well under 500g, I'll add it to my list.

 

[Paul1960]

Though I haven't yet had the chance to listen to the mat, as my system is down due to home renovation, I recently acquired a Oracle mat on Ralph's (atmasphere) recommendation.
https://hifiheaven.net/product/oracle-audio-hard-acrylic-mat/

Unless you believe the "slightly concave surface" is the critical factor you can buy an acrylic mat for <$20 https://www.amazon.com/Acrylic-Turntable-Mat-BlueLit-Slipmat/dp/B01N5TMHTI you should get one for yucks and do a comparison when your system is back up. I've also read that some people think an old record is one of the best turntable mats you can use.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Too bad.
Arthur just confirmed the APM is 695g.
Too heavy for my uses.

 

[Paul1960]

Too bad.
Arthur just confirmed the APM is 695g.
Too heavy for my uses.

That is weird. It makes me want to buy one just to figure out how it is so much different from the 5mm mat I have. The underlayer must be a different material rather than the same material twice as thick. But 7 mm is too thick to use with my arm.

 

[spiritofmusic]

He's reduced the standard Achromat 5mm foam layer down to 3mm, to then bond that 3mm layer to 4mm thick glass, making 7mm. The 5mm Achromat is discontinued.
That would certainly make sense and account for the serious extra weight.
The way I see it, as a user who can only accommodate 5-7mm mat thicknesses, the Black Forest Audio Däd!Mät utilizing something very similar in principle to the Achromat, but at 5mm thick, serves my purposes very well.
--
Early next week I'll order said Däd!Mät with it's Däd!Clämp, the Hexmat Absolute mat/clamp, the Stack Audio Serene Stabilizer puck, and run this three-way comparison to include my existing Acoustic Revive RTS-30 mat/Origin Live Gravity One puck.
I'm particularly curious about the Stack Audio Serene Stabilizer puck in relation to my Origin Live Gravity One puck.
In a perfect world I'd love to try some of the super-heavy copper and gunmetal mats & heavier clamps, medium-heavy mats like the various graphite ones.out there, and thinner mats like the Spec sheet, but ergonomics and physical concerns preclude these other options.

 

[Tuckers]

I got the Origin Live Gravity Two record weight to try on my TT. Unfortunately my TT has been down last month.

https://www.originlive.com/hi-fi/turntable-upgrades-modification/turntable-record-weight-best/

 

[spiritofmusic]

I got the Origin Live Gravity Two record weight to try on my TT. Unfortunately my TT has been down last month.

https://www.originlive.com/hi-fi/turntable-upgrades-modification/turntable-record-weight-best/

Ah, too bad you haven't been able to use it.
Tbh, their Gravity One puck has only been marginal in it's benefits here, I'm not really minded to try this.
I'm also somewhat miffed by yet more lack of clear description as to how this thing works, as per the Origin One and so many ideas and products in this hobby.
I quite Stack Audio's explanation of their Serene Stabilizer, so this is the one I'm going to try versus my Gravity One, and the clamps that come with the Hexmat and Däd!Mät.