ANOTHER series of mat/clamp comparisons.

[spiritofmusic]

I'm unable to utilize the Washi on its own, my VTA adjustment can't go down to 0.5-1mm thickness on platter mat.
FWIW, I quite like the Washi as a sub mat under my Acoustic Revive, although the Stack mat does not favour having the Washi under it.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Always interesting returning to a major system change the following day after the day before.
Whether the shock/surprise of a major sonic uplift is maintained, whether anything starts to irk you - either something you thought was an improvement but is actually a euphonic coloration - & whether your upbeat mood is maintained and taken further.
Well, I'm glad to report that second day around with the Stack duo, all is good, nothing has gone backwards, nothing was misinterpreted from the first day's trial.
Right now I'm picking up a genuine increase in detail and resolution, again very apparent into the treble, as cymbals and percussion are resolved very clearly, but it's also very evident that the bass is superlative too, never quite had this level of roundness, impact and speed.
Mids are superlative, everything sounds very natural in terms of tone and timbre.
Certainly my remaining aim in terms of completion of a decade plus journey to max out my analog front end, the need to eradicate grain, grit and a tendency to aggressiveness, is being wholly addressed by the Stack mat and puck.

 

[mtemur]

My personal thinking is that a soft compliant may mat damp singing aluminum platters, but the the reflextions from the vinyl record would add a spectrum of resonances which are not good. Better to have a dead platter/delrin/synthetics and couple the record tight to the high mass platter to make is as stable and inert as possible

Your personal reasoning is incorrect. Delrin and similar plastic-based materials have a “plastic” sonic character and tend to smear the sound. Since Delrin does not have the density of metal, it cannot be used to create a truly high-mass platter, which is essential for high-performance turntable design.

In contrast, high-mass metal platters do not inherently ring when engineered properly, and they can be effectively coupled with other materials for optimized isolation and damping. Plastics like Delrin are relatively soft and absorb mechanical energy—including the micro-vibrations read by the stylus. That means part of the musical information is lost.

If using soft materials were the key to superior turntable design, then platters would be made out of sponge—because sponge is even more “dead” than Delrin.

Keep in mind that higher-performance plinths, platters, cartridge bodies, armboards, etc., are all made from harder, stiffer materials—typically metal.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Your personal reasoning is incorrect. Delrin and similar plastic-based materials have a “plastic” sonic character and tend to smear the sound. Since Delrin does not have the density of metal, it cannot be used to create a truly high-mass platter, which is essential for high-performance turntable design.

In contrast, high-mass metal platters do not inherently ring when engineered properly, and they can be effectively coupled with other materials for optimized isolation and damping. Plastics like Delrin are relatively soft and absorb mechanical energy—including the micro-vibrations read by the stylus. That means part of the musical information is lost.

If using soft materials were the key to superior turntable design, then platters would be made out of sponge—because sponge is even more “dead” than Delrin.

Keep in mind that higher-performance plinths, platters, cartridge bodies, armboards, etc., are all made from harder, stiffer materials—typically metal.

So, how does the Spec mat fit into your theory that hard mats are best?

 

[Balle Clorin]

Thanks for your comments @mtemur I would not call Delrin soft.. but I see your point.
Ideally I think the record should be coupled to something that makes it as stable and inert as possible. I still wonder about the reflections that will be caused by the interface between different materials. If the material are identical the reflection would be minimized, that is an argument for coupling the vinyl record tight to A Delrin platter, . Having different materials will cause more reflection , adding rubber in between makes r more complicated to understand. I wish I could figure a way to measure the effects. Just measuring the frequency response or a single tone has so far not revealed much, mostly VTA effects I think( crosstalk, balance, frequency )

 

[spiritofmusic]

Interestingly re mixing materials, the Acoustic Revive mat works with the Teac Washi paper sub mat underneath.
But the Teac ruins the effects of the Stack mat.

 

[Balle Clorin]

Article abouts mats here

https://www.worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Audio/Archive-Audio/80s/Audio-1988-04.pdf

 

[mtemur]

So, how does the Spec mat fit into your theory that hard mats are best?

I didn't say anything about hard mats and I haven't heard Spec mat yet. My response was about delrin platter.That said, the purpose of the mat is ensuring a good coupling between platter and record. A hard mat may do that very well but other softer alternatives can do it more easily IMO.

 

[spiritofmusic]

I didn't say anything about hard mats and I haven't heard Spec mat yet. My response was about delrin platter.That said, the purpose of the mat is ensuring a good coupling between platter and record. A hard mat may do that very well but other softer alternatives can do it more easily IMO.

Apologies, I've mixed you up with Djsina2 who has used it.

 

[djsina2]

I liked the SPEC mat a lot on my CSPort sound wise but I didn’t like the metal to metal contact, the special coating on the mat gets so scratched up.

 

[spiritofmusic]

I liked the SPEC mat a lot on my CSPort sound wise but I didn’t like the metal to metal contact, the special coating on the mat gets so scratched up.

Wouldn't this apply to the interface with LPs as well? It is a thought that's crossed my mind, no anxieties placing an LP on a soft mat like my Acoustic Revive and the Stack that I'm auditioning, but LP on the metal comprising the Stack, especially after multiple uses and escalating wear.

 

[djsina2]

Wouldn't this apply to the interface with LPs as well? It is a thought that's crossed my mind, no anxieties placing an LP on a soft mat like my Acoustic Revive and the Stack that I'm auditioning, but LP on the metal comprising the Stack, especially after multiple uses and escalating wear.

I know others put the LP directly on the metal CSPort platter but I don’t do it. Did it briefly and thought this isn’t right, then started exploring mats. SPEC was a big improvement over no mat for me.

 

[spiritofmusic]

I know others put the LP directly on the metal CSPort platter but I don’t do it. Did it briefly and thought this isn’t right, then started exploring mats. SPEC was a big improvement over no mat for me.

Yes, but you're commenting on wear issues (metal to metal contact Spec mat on CS Port platter), so isn't there the potential for wear on LPs from long term use of the Spex (ie vinyl to Spec metal contact)?

 

[djsina2]

Yes, but you're commenting on wear issues (metal to metal contact Spec mat on CS Port platter), so isn't there the potential for wear on LPs from long term use of the Spex (ie vinyl to Spec metal contact)?

I don’t think so, the SPEC has a coating on it.

 

[spiritofmusic]

So, LPs are fine on the Spec re wear, it's just Spec mat to metal platter contact that is an issue re wear?

 

[djsina2]

So, LPs are fine on the Spec re wear, it's just Spec mat to metal platter contact that is an issue re wear?

That’s my experience, correct.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Well, the Spec mat is winging it's way from Japan to the UK as we speak (type). I'm really fascinated for this comparison versus the Stack mat, so fundamentally different are they in materials and principle of working.
The Stack mat and stabilizer feels "totally and inherently right", while my Acoustic Revive mat always left me with some room for doubt.
Can there be *another* "totally and inherently right"?
I mean, can one love two women? I've not tried myself, seems even more stress inducing than this hobby.

 

[Barry]

I have used the Spec Audio AP-UD1 mat for several years now on my TW Acustic Raven Anniversary (Audio Technica record weight, Tri-Planar arm & Etna Lambda cartridge latest) with great results. Records on the bare copper platter or on the original TW rubber mat (ugh) didn't work for me. I probably tried some other mats and weights, but it was a while ago. There are no LP wear issues.

Off topic, but the answer to your last question is "Yes".

 

[spiritofmusic]

I have used the Spec Audio AP-UD1 mat for several years now on my TW Acustic Raven Anniversary (Audio Technica record weight, Tri-Planar arm & Etna Lambda cartridge latest) with great results. Records on the bare copper platter or on the original TW rubber mat (ugh) didn't work for me. There are no LP wear issues.

Off topic, but the answer to your last question is "Yes".

Cheers, appreciate the comment on (lack of) LP wear.
I've not seen one negative comment anywhere yet on the Spec.

 

[djsina2]

I have used the Spec Audio AP-UD1 mat for several years now on my TW Acustic Raven Anniversary (Audio Technica record weight, Tri-Planar arm & Etna Lambda cartridge latest) with great results. Records on the bare copper platter or on the original TW rubber mat (ugh) didn't work for me. I probably tried some other mats and weights, but it was a while ago. There are no LP wear issues.

Off topic, but the answer to your last question is "Yes".

Is the coating on the bottom side of the SPEC scratched up? Do you replace records on the fly?