SS Amp Performance Characteristics

[morricab]

I did like the Devialet but in mono config only ..

Devialet sounds poor. Lots of people I know bought them and then sold them…I also had one in house for a couple months…dry like all the others…

 

[Kingrex]

7Yes all had bad timbre , Crown best drive bad timbre vs others. The hi freq hash is also obvious with few exceptions..

SS amps of high Quality does dverythign it toob counterparts do but better, the problem with SS people buy them and throw them in and think tjey are done , yet by a bad sounding tooby amp and spend months tweaking everything known to man to get them sounding good and when they do proclaim better to SS .

Take the same effort on selecting a pre and matching amp to speaker load when using an SS amp like you do on a toob and it will deliver..!

Are you saying you like a class A or AB SS amp. But do not like a class D amp so much?
That was sort of why I opted to try the A3cr. Its class AB and I didn't think it could go so wrong.

But, to your point, I have not moved my speakers around. Changed speaker cables and interconnect as well as power cables. I plugged it in, attached it to my existing setup and played it about 8 hours over 3 days to let it settle. Then listened in earnest.

Who knows. Maybe it needs to be recapped. But after my last fiasco with the SET845 and $15k bleading out of my bank, I am very gun shy to rebuilding a less than optimum amp.
I have no idea what the spec sheets linked in post 83 mean as pertains to sound quality. But if they were posted with a, no wonder, type comment, then it sounds like this amp will never rise very high.

 

[morricab]

Are you saying you like a class A or AB SS amp. But do not like a class D amp so much?
That was sort of why I opted to try the A3cr. Its class AB and I didn't think it could go so wrong.

But, to your point, I have not moved my speakers around. Changed speaker cables and interconnect as well as power cables. I plugged it in, attached it to my existing setup and played it about 8 hours over 3 days to let it settle. Then listened in earnest.

Who knows. Maybe it needs to be recapped. But after my last fiasco with the SET845 and $15k bleading out of my bank, I am very gun shy to rebuilding a less than optimum amp.
I have no idea what the spec sheets linked in post 83 mean as pertains to sound quality. But if they were posted with a, no wonder, type comment, then it sounds like this amp will never rise very high.

Wait! You spent $15k rebuilding your Audions which aren’t worth a fraction of that on the used market??

 

[Audiohertz2]

Devialet sounds poor. Lots of people I know bought them and then sold them…I also had one in house for a couple months…dry like all the others…

Not sure what version software etc , i heard a pr on ESL’s mono config was not dry at all
Plenty drive , ran very hot …

 

[Audiohertz2]

Are you saying you like a class A or AB SS amp. But do not like a class D amp so much?
That was sort of why I opted to try the A3cr. Its class AB and I didn't think it could go so wrong.

But, to your point, I have not moved my speakers around. Changed speaker cables and interconnect as well as power cables. I plugged it in, attached it to my existing setup and played it about 8 hours over 3 days to let it settle. Then listened in earnest.

Who knows. Maybe it needs to be recapped. But after my last fiasco with the SET845 and $15k bleading out of my bank, I am very gun shy to rebuilding a less than optimum amp.
I have no idea what the spec sheets linked in post 83 mean as pertains to sound quality. But if they were posted with a, no wonder, type comment, then it sounds like this amp will never rise very high.

Most audiophile SS amps are class A A/B , with a few exceptions which are low wattage full class A @8 only bias …!

 

[morricab]

Not sure what version software etc , i heard a pr on ESL’s mono config was not dry at all
Plenty drive , ran very hot …

Several versions, including 1000 pro.monos, smaller ones in stereo and mono an original, etc. corresponds pretty closely to class D I have owned and many many others I have heard besides. Your first comment was right, timbre is all wrong…always.

 

[Audiohertz2]

Thought Devialet was not Class D , they run pretty hot ..

 

[morricab]

Thought Devialet was not Class D , they run pretty hot ..

Input is class A and output is class D.

 

[Atmasphere]

Poorly designed ones do , with enuff open loop gain and bandwidth this is not an issue…

Yes. It wasn't until recently (the last 20 years or so) that the semiconductors needed to really raise the Gain Bandwidth Product really existed.

The tubes do very well because they can mask higher orders which the ear finds objectionable.

Are you saying you like a class A or AB SS amp. But do not like a class D amp so much?
That was sort of why I opted to try the A3cr. Its class AB and I didn't think it could go so wrong.

The class of operation isn't important. The harmonic spectrum generated by the amp is.

Input is class A and output is class D.

Nope. Any class D has class A at its inputs if it has a decent input buffer. The Devialet runs hot because its got a small class A amplifier inside in tandem with the class D output. A least as far as their website suggests...

 

[DasguteOhr]

Are you saying you like a class A or AB SS amp. But do not like a class D amp so much?
That was sort of why I opted to try the A3cr. Its class AB and I didn't think it could go so wrong.

But, to your point, I have not moved my speakers around. Changed speaker cables and interconnect as well as power cables. I plugged it in, attached it to my existing setup and played it about 8 hours over 3 days to let it settle. Then listened in earnest.

Who knows. Maybe it needs to be recapped. But after my last fiasco with the SET845 and $15k bleading out of my bank, I am very gun shy to rebuilding a less than optimum amp.
I have no idea what the spec sheets linked in post 83 mean as pertains to sound quality. But if they were posted with a, no wonder, type comment, then it sounds like this amp will never rise very high.

Just a quick question: Was the Musical Fidelity new? They take a long time to break in. Super good power supply with a big choke for the price.

 

[Kingrex]

Just a quick question: Was the Musical Fidelity new? They take a long time to break in. Super good power supply with a big choke for the price.View attachment 159471

No. Not new. I am the 3rd owner?
I will pop the lid and look to see if there are visible issues. I have no idea how to test it with a scope.

 

[Kingrex]

Wait! You spent $15k rebuilding your Audions which aren’t worth a fraction of that on the used market??

Yes. I was a stupid sucker that went back many times under the promise that this was the fix. It was a slow blead. But I was also lead to believe that SET was the best way to go. My speaker is 96db. And the 845 makes about 17 watts. So I was believing I was chasing gold. I ended up with a hunk of lead. I got Fd from start to finish.

 

[DasguteOhr]

No. Not new. I am the 3rd owner?
I will pop the lid and look to see if there are visible issues. I have no idea how

So, in YouTube repair videos, you often see that they have a heat problem and die. I always thought musical fidelity sounded beautiful. I always think of David Amp. It looked weird but was still a lot of fun to listen to music. It also often died from heat.
Reviews from owner

Musical Fidelity A3CR Amplifiers user reviews : 4.9 out of 5 - 35 reviews - audioreview.com

Musical Fidelity A3CR Amplifiers user reviews : 4.9 out of 5 - 35 reviews - audioreview.com

www.audioreview.com

 

[microstrip]

My backup unit is a Devialet D200 which is a class A/D hybrid. Nice sounding unit. It needs some effort to setup as you need to create a configuration file and flash it. Easy thing to do. More information at Devialetchat.com.

You are welcome to take it and play with it to see if you like it. Let me know. I am in Kirkland.

I also owned a D200 years ago. An interesting amplifier, that needed some work and proper matching to sound very good - not an easy plug and play device. I also found it very sensitive to cables (power, digital and speaker).

In my experience I found the AES/EBU much more articulate and musical than the USB input or WIFI, that using a PC server could sound sterile in my system. Unfortunately the best sound I could get from it was using the Metronome Calypso (Kalista) CD transport, that could make it have body , presence and slam, at a price of almost ten times the price of the amplifier! Fortunately a much cheaper belt drive CEC CD transport wit AES/EBU could also sound very decent. I still own the best kept secret in such system - the top AES/EBU Transparent Audio AES/EBU cable, that I found was mandatory .

Edit - just wanted to add that the D400 (two D200 monoblocks) sounded great on the Soundlab A1 Ps. These electrostatic speakers have controls for bass, middle and treble, that could be used to optimize the sound balance to overcome the Devialet extremely low output impedance.

 

[microstrip]

Input is class A and output is class D.

No. ADH (Analog Digital Hybrid) is a complex scheme invented by Devialet.

See https://www.devialet.com/en-us/ampl...cWW17Q2ULXdEZ-mnmGQJWka3w_Ma0QtRbeNQb8E4wBrLK

 

[Kingrex]

So, in YouTube repair videos, you often see that they have a heat problem and die. I always thought musical fidelity sounded beautiful. I always think of David Amp. It looked weird but was still a lot of fun to listen to music. It also often died from heat.
Reviews from owner

Musical Fidelity A3CR Amplifiers user reviews : 4.9 out of 5 - 35 reviews - audioreview.com

Musical Fidelity A3CR Amplifiers user reviews : 4.9 out of 5 - 35 reviews - audioreview.com

www.audioreview.com

Is it easy to recap?

 

[morricab]

No. ADH (Analog Digital Hybrid) is a complex scheme invented by Devialet.

See https://www.devialet.com/en-us/ampl...cWW17Q2ULXdEZ-mnmGQJWka3w_Ma0QtRbeNQb8E4wBrLK

“The world’s first hybrid amplification technology delivers all the refinement of Analog amplification (Class A) with all the power and compactness of Digital amplification (Class D).Based on the same principle as advanced driver assistance, the idea of ADH is to maintain the analogue amplifier's voltage generating function (to maintain their excellent audio performance levels), while entrusting the current generation function, and accordingly, that of generating power for the load, to an amplifier equipped with drastically superior energy efficiency: in this case a digital amplifier, otherwise known as a switch amplifier.”
So, Class A for voltage gain and Class D for current.

 

[morricab]

Yes. It wasn't until recently (the last 20 years or so) that the semiconductors needed to really raise the Gain Bandwidth Product really existed.

The tubes do very well because they can mask higher orders which the ear finds objectionable.

The class of operation isn't important. The harmonic spectrum generated by the amp is.

Nope. Any class D has class A at its inputs if it has a decent input buffer. The Devialet runs hot because its got a small class A amplifier inside in tandem with the class D output. A least as far as their website suggests...

“The world’s first hybrid amplification technology delivers all the refinement of Analog amplification (Class A) with all the power and compactness of Digital amplification (Class D).Based on the same principle as advanced driver assistance, the idea of ADH is to maintain the analogue amplifier's voltage generating function (to maintain their excellent audio performance levels), while entrusting the current generation function, and accordingly, that of generating power for the load, to an amplifier equipped with drastically superior energy efficiency: in this case a digital amplifier, otherwise known as a switch amplifier.“

Says here Class A for voltage and D for current.

 

[DasguteOhr]

Is it easy to recap?

Sure, but i think it had nothing to do with real problem.
It's often said that the quiescent current & voltage on this model is drifting. I'd have a technician check it first. If it's too high, the surrounding components will die over time.

P.S
Measure the DC offset at the speaker terminal, the multimeter, and the DC voltage. Start the amp. Wait 15 minutes. If high values appear there, that's an indication that something is wrong.this amp has no protection circut with relay

 

[analogsa]

Says here Class A for voltage and D for current

I don't think so. From a distant recollection this hybrid was akin to Quad's ancient current dumping bridge: a class A amp connected to the load at all times with class B dumpers providing extra current when needed. Class D instead of the class B dumpers.

The voltage gain comes from a class A amplification circuit, but here this is not the focus.