Due to my age I had the benefit of growing up while tube equipment was the only thing there was and then seeing solid state equipment develop and become the state of the art. I don't think that statement is hyperbole in the slightest. Here is my reasoning why I believe that SS equipment is superior in every way to tubes. In terms of pure performance, it measures better than tubes on any parameter you can pick. In terms of cost, SS wins hands down. The cost per watt even in very high end equipment is more favorable in SS. Many people it seems are taking low powered tube amps and driving high efficiency speakers with them, which kind of begs a few questions. Firstly, why would you deliberately use something that has an inherently higher noise floor (tubes) to drive a more sensitive speaker where the speaker's sensitivity can more easily reveal the shortcomings (noise floor) of the amplifier? This makes no logical sense to me. Tubes, due to the fact they run much hotter than transistors have an inherently higher thermal noise figure than SS equipment does. If the idea of hi-fi is to get as close to zero background noise and as close to having a straight wire with gain as possible, why would tube equipment even be given a second look? What am I missing here? Tubes add more hum, noise, and distortion to the signal than solid state equipment does but yet many people choose tubes? This is not even considering the huge difference in terms of maintenance costs. I just don't get it.
I know this is an age old debate, but I need a technical explanation why one would choose tubes over solid state
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I prefer SS amplifier because I listened music everyday....
If I have a amplifier with tube, I must change tubes each year I think...
But, for me , tubes amplifier has a delightful sound than SS amplifier....even if I have a Jeff Rowland Model 625....
If I have a amplifier with tube, I must change tubes each year I think...
But, for me , tubes amplifier has a delightful sound than SS amplifier....even if I have a Jeff Rowland Model 625....
I recognize that to you tubes sound better, but for the life of me cannot understand why. Everyone will choose what works for them if given the chance to do so, I suppose. I just don't understand why tube equipment is so cherished and when people say it sounds better that is where my real disconnect happens. There is no objective measurement that supports the assertion that tube equipment is more faithful to the recording.
Why do people sail classic wooden boats? Sometimes it’s not simply about distortion and maintenance costs.
The high-end is an hobby of individual preference, most of us do not base our choice just in technical aspects. Factors such as subjective preference and value for money also dictate my choices.
You need to do some auditioning. It is not about what’s logical. It’s about what sounds good to you.
William Zane Johnson was accused nearly 50 years ago of setting the industry back 20 years by promoting tube designs. He said that he could design for best sound with either tubes or SS. But he said it was easier to do it with tubes. FWIW, the market rejected his SS offerings, but his tube based designs became legendary.
You need to personally listen. No one can explain it to you.
Tubes are needless to me cos I do not want impedance mismatch relationship between my amp and speaker altering my speaker's frequency response for absolutely no reason.
So, I went for a pair of monoblock amps that added zero change to the frequency response of my speakers as I wanted to hear my speakers in all their full glory as only influenced by the room/room treatment/DSP. So always control for variables you can imo
Dabbled in tube amps and I am glad I went away from them
I consider myself fairly young at 43. I don't put much stock in measurements unless they are egregious. I switched from SS to tubes because they work well with my speakers and they don't add any negatively discernable background noise at the levels I typically listen at. They also look bad ass imo. The cost of maintenance has not been very high and I listen for about 2-4 hours a day. I've only had to replace a few tubes over 14 years for maintenance reasons. For me they also add a bit of texture, realism, and naturalness to the music. Obviously everyone will have a slightly different opinion.
Do you believe you can control room/room treatment/DSP in a more accurate and predictable way than the effect of about one ohm or even less output impedance?
I find the sweet spot is SS Class A amps and tube pre-amps and phono stages. Tubes last a loooong time in pre-amps and there’s just something about having a bit of tube goodness in the signal chain, especially phono pres. Forget about measurements and focus on the ear/brain connection and what draws you into the music.
I have tube amplification (pre and power). The idea that transistor amps are technically superior in every way is debatable. Negative feedback is not without sonic consequences, and tubes, being more linear amplification devices, require less of it. While SS amps have better THD numbers, the technically low distortions they do have, which often involve higher harmonics, can be more grating to the human ear. Not just absolute technical numbers need to be considered, but also their psychoacoustic effect. I am sure experts can chime in who have more to say on the subject.
Digital is also supposedly superior technically, but has been plagued with sonic problems for decades. For example, for a long time the problem of jitter has been vastly underappreciated, which the human ear is extraordinarily sensitive to. The psychoacoustic effects of digital jitter (timing errors affecting different frequencies differently) are just much more devastating than those of analog wow and flutter (timing errors affecting different frequencies the same way).
Also here the "better measurements" argument in favor of digital is deceptive, just like the "better measurements" argument in favor of solid state is deceptive.
Having said all that, not only do I have tube amplification, my exclusive source is digital (solid state DAC). With the progress that digital has made by now, I don't see the need for an analog source.
Like others have pointed out, tubes usually have a long life. I change them rarely.
Digital is also supposedly superior technically, but has been plagued with sonic problems for decades. For example, for a long time the problem of jitter has been vastly underappreciated, which the human ear is extraordinarily sensitive to. The psychoacoustic effects of digital jitter (timing errors affecting different frequencies differently) are just much more devastating than those of analog wow and flutter (timing errors affecting different frequencies the same way).
Also here the "better measurements" argument in favor of digital is deceptive, just like the "better measurements" argument in favor of solid state is deceptive.
Having said all that, not only do I have tube amplification, my exclusive source is digital (solid state DAC). With the progress that digital has made by now, I don't see the need for an analog source.
Like others have pointed out, tubes usually have a long life. I change them rarely.
I have indeed done that with my current setup, yup. Not worrying about what a component is doing is what made this more straightforward for me
The purity of water, or the intoxicating effect of wine? It’s the same with vinyl. Imperfect, expensive, difficult to maintain. And yet, and yet….
I have a SS amp for the summer and a tube amp for the colder months. I enjoy the change in seasons. The SS amp (Coda S125) is a bit cooler with tighter bass and more detailed presentation than the tube amp (Graaf GM100) that has a warmer glow with larger sounstage. New music that I first heard on the SS amp sounds new with tube amp and vice-versa. It is a way to keep the music fresh, and for me, avoid constantly buying new hardware for something different. And the "fun" of tube rolling offers a nice opportunity to experiment/explore different tonal tastes if that appeals to you.
I have a tube tester, and the Graaf 12 pentode power tubes last about 7500 hrs, and were cheap $25ea, and I have spares for longer than I will be alive. The one thing about tube preamp & amps, is that they are generally easy to service, offering them a lifetime purchase if you are so inclined, and tube rolling can keep the hardware "fresh", you do not tire of it. Of course, it can be very frustrating.
But, after all is said and done, it's all about different strokes for different folks. Each of us has our own individual tastes, our own priorties, and I always say, what is best is what is best for you.
I have a tube tester, and the Graaf 12 pentode power tubes last about 7500 hrs, and were cheap $25ea, and I have spares for longer than I will be alive. The one thing about tube preamp & amps, is that they are generally easy to service, offering them a lifetime purchase if you are so inclined, and tube rolling can keep the hardware "fresh", you do not tire of it. Of course, it can be very frustrating.
But, after all is said and done, it's all about different strokes for different folks. Each of us has our own individual tastes, our own priorties, and I always say, what is best is what is best for you.
The Japanese have a word for it. Wabi-sabi. “Flawed beauty”.
It’s all in one’s eye (or ear in the topic’s case).
It’s all in one’s eye (or ear in the topic’s case).
I can't understand why. Properly designed and implemented solid state is really technically superior.
Now you are addressing the subjective aspects ("sonic") of poor negative feedback designs.
No expert can give us absolute answers on matters of preference. I can say that the best preamplfiers and amplifiers I have listened were solid state. Unfortunately they are too expensive for my wallet, I am on tubes!
One the best sounding CD player systems I have owned - the Metronome Calypso (Kalista) had very high jitter. The same for the more praised CD transports of the past. IMO the jitter argument was simply a way to avoid the much more complicated and needed proper explanations involving digital sound.
Yes, as long as when we address just the few standard measurements shown in reviews. Fortunately the audio industry is a few steps ahead concerning measurements.
Ok.
The same for me since long, but it is also a matter of preference. I keep vinyl for jazz and nostalgia, knowing that many recordings were carried to be listened in vinyl and sound "better" in this format.
Well, in my case every three years on average, although some last longer.
I explained why, or at least I offered one argument why. I did caution against falling into the numbers game trap, which makes the argument of "technical superiority" questionable, which is a problem for digital as well.
So you do concede that up to certain price point tube amplification can sound superior or preferable. Regardless, I could happily live with some solid state amplification, including class D, even in the price range of my amplification. A brand that could compete just wasn't better in my system, and there were slight problems with synergy, specific to my particular system and room. Nothing to do with the quality of the amplification itself.
Sounds about right.
In my system each effort to reduce jitter has had an undeniably positive effect.
I now have a distinctly low-jitter CD transport, Jay's Audio CDT3, which additionally is slaved to a Mutec REF10 SE120 clock.
It is a fact that the speakers contribute the lions share of distortion.
And many tube system do not have audible hum.
Some may have high distortion, but many do not.
And it is an odd paradox that the majority of people like some distortion.
A lot of people go this route.
There is some allure to having low feedback amps, and many SS amps use a lot of feedback.
Coincidentally the Class-D stuff uses a lot of feedback and they can sound “pretty o’rioght”.
Currently I have the tube pre feeding into a pair of Class-D monoblocks, as the SS amps are going into a box to get some switches fixed.
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