How do you know when you are done?

sure.

only speak for my own journey, for sure i was targeting the point of my work retirement to wind down my planning for new things. and reach a stable listening enjoyment spot. i had a few irons in the fire that needed to play out and which did do that. i'm passed my end point with the various parts of my system and media inventory building.

would i use the word 'goal'? that's reasonable. 30 years in.......it's time. but no thinking about not continuing my serious listening and participating in the hobby culture. that is who i am and part of me. i'll still lust after gear and window shop mentally. why stop?

it's reasonable that system building would have an end game. reaching that you have various choices. you can (1) redefine your direction and chase that stuff, even (2) explore new system philosophy choices, or just (3) put it in cruise mode and listen and enjoy. all valid directions.

i'm solidly in #3, but reserve the right to reconsider. if were to downsize my home, that could trigger some changes. and opportunities. it could happen. a few buyers have made offers on my speakers, which i declined. if they upped their offers i might consider that. so that is possible but unlikely. and i'm fully satisfied with my speakers (a high bar to even equal let alone improve) but new one's might be fun (change for change sake). then i would need to re-tune the room (daunting idea). much easier to stand pat.
I love this topic. It really demonstrates so may ways to approach the hobby.

I have never heard a system that could extend my suspension of sonic disbelief for more than a second, ot two. So, every system ends up being a compromise, even 'no compromise' systems! ;)

No matter how terrific a piece of gear or system or room might be, none last beyond an initial instant of 'could this be it?' before settling in to 'nope, but not bad.'

So, from that vantage, I can never be done. I will always be looking for a way forward on that front.

Then, no matter how good a system is, the way it falls short of reality will be the same over time. I think I habituate and eventually move on from any system because it will always do what it does in the same fashion, day after day.

Even sonic success from artist to artist, recording to recording, genre to genre can be almost impossible to achieve.

So, I end up eventually facing some sort sonic ennui, and I start to notice the roving in my eye.

I love this hobby and search out new stuff to hear, but since nothing ever sounds like "mission fully accomplished" I don't think I will have a true "done" point. (I have plenty of "close enough" sonic toys, and I will rotate things in and out for fresh perspectives, but nothing has ever managed to make me think I am experiencing 'final destination' musical performance.)

None of that is meant in any contentious way, and I will go so far as to say this chase can be completely circular...sometimes our pursuit brings us back to where we were in the past and we 'reappreciate it' again before we pack up and move on again.

Maybe Hi Fi contains it's own version of "The Razor's Edge?" :cool:
 
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I love this topic. It really demonstrates so may ways to approach the hobby.
i think mostly different states of mind and degrees of effort. some of us break though to a level of music reproduction that builds on itself. what seemed untouchable becomes tangible. the taste of which pushes us further.
I have never heard a system that could extend my suspension of sonic disbelief for more than a second, ot two. So, every system ends up being a compromise, even 'no compromise' systems! ;)
music reproduction is never completely real. we know that. but then real can't match reproduction at it's best either. the unique experience of great reproduction on it's own terms can be life altering. it might only do the suspension of disbelief here and there but the actual experience might be off the scale and full of wonder. this is my experience.

is that a mind trick? not for me. whether it is for you is up to you and your own efforts. it's personal.

last week i had a visitor and we had a few of these 'over-the-top' experiences where we were transported into a special place. one was listening to a 33 minute tape of 'Mountain Jam' from the Allman Brothers. recorded at the Filmore East in 1971. we knew it was not real, but we had one of those connected music reproduction experiences. it transcended mere reproduction to something higher.

how much of that was the system and the media? how much was our expectations and imagination? is the effort to push system development harder worth it? did we have a sense that what we experienced was compromised?

it does take all the pieces lined up to find this special place. not every piece of music i play get's all the way there. and i'm not always in the right head space, or have a willing partner who is also there. but sometimes, it does all work like that.

i do think that this higher level of music reproduction is one big reason i stick with analog sources, even though i listen to mostly digital. analog has that over the top gear it goes to that taps into our imagination and emotions and fills in the missing pieces better than digital and transports us further up the road to the sublime feelings. although i can have those feelings sometimes with digital too.

also not all high level systems get out of the way of the music in the same way. sometimes they have distracting sameness that reduces the sense of reality. or lack full frequency performance so some music lacks dynamics or realism. so these artifacts or missing parts make the music less special and the likelihood of hitting these high highs less. so system building philosophy also plays a part of reaching a 'done' point. it's harder for sure to keep things as complete and real as possible, but if you do then there is a payoff.
No matter how terrific a piece of gear or system or room might be, none last beyond an initial instant of 'could this be it?' before settling in to 'nope, but not bad.'

So, from that vantage, I can never be done. I will always be looking for a way forward on that front.
when i can tap into this level of musical experience when i choose it's easy for me to be done. i don't need to push any more. and many visitors to my room seem to agree with me. we can be all the way there to a good spot to be done. and that spot is not the same as live music. but it could be better in some ways. or just where we need it to be.

would many/most agree with me? who knows?
Then, no matter how good a system is, the way it falls short of reality will be the same over time. I think I habituate and eventually move on from any system because it will always do what it does in the same fashion, day after day.
or.......the way it succeeds at taking us to that higher point of experience can be fully satisfying......time after time. not that it's real. but it delivers. and then delivers some more.

or we can rationalize that our system will never be completely real so our efforts are tempered.

both are states of mind and there is no right answer.
Even sonic success from artist to artist, recording to recording, genre to genre can be almost impossible to achieve.

So, I end up eventually facing some sort sonic ennui, and I start to notice the roving in my eye.
i respect how you see things.
I love this hobby and search out new stuff to hear, but since nothing ever sounds like "mission fully accomplished" I don't think I will have a true "done" point. (I have plenty of "close enough" sonic toys, and I will rotate things in and out for fresh perspectives, but nothing has ever managed to make me think I am experiencing 'final destination' musical performance.)

None of that is meant in any contentious way, and I will go so far as to say this chase can be completely circular...sometimes our pursuit brings us back to where we were in the past and we 'reappreciate it' again before we pack up and move on again.

Maybe Hi Fi contains it's own version of "The Razor's Edge?" :cool:
enjoy your journey.
 
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Mike, thank you for this topic

I think music has no relation to high end audio so these are two different worlds. I love my airpods when climb fast or my crap car stereo makes me happy after morning run.

Audio is very lovely but it is very complex hobby (most of audiophiles are not very happy after spending lots of time and money) and many audiophiles can not end this game for different reasons.

Enjoy beatuful life
 
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New to the forum, 1 post in.

I may well have retired stopped working last October, took a deal. I have a decent pension pot and saw a big dip in April which then recovered which meant I could justify (don't tell the wife and kids) my dream amp and now what I consider also my dream turntable...it certainly sounds like it.

I built a reasonably high end digital system and have a huge "audiophile" digital collection that I simply never listen to it so I plan to be a vinyl only guy. The last 3/4 years I have barely but a SACD or disc in my player. I plan to sell off both the equipment and discs.

So for me at 61 these three main components are the cornerstone of hopefully the last few decades of my listening time.
But the journey never stops and there are other areas with these cornerstones areas to improve and indeed the main reason having come across this forum only really recently I'm going to pick the brains on prioritising and putting in the final pieces of the jigsaw.
 
Mike, thank you for this topic
:)
I think music has no relation to high end audio so these are two different worlds.
respect that you feel this way.

my viewpoint is that high end audio is an enhancement to loving music. music being the catalyst. and when you add music + high end audio = an amazing thing to enjoy and make your life better. more joy. i have an equal vision of a system and the music media. the media is a separate idea from the music. and then you add the social interaction aspect of the audiophile community to the high end audio experience the whole picture is very positive.
I love my airpods when climb fast or my crap car stereo makes me happy after morning run.
many ways to consume music in our lives. it can be a background companion, or degrees of a main focus and works in many different contexts. and music memories can really enhance our feelings and allow pedestrian music sonic performance to have huge effects on us.
Audio is very lovely but it is very complex hobby (most of audiophiles are not very happy after spending lots of time and money) and many audiophiles can not end this game for different reasons.
like any hobby can get out of hand and bring all sorts of human reactions. every human handles things differently. the hobby can exert too much control. or be just right and the perfect life compliment....and life balance. if i had grandkids (or other life-style influences) my high end approach would be quite different, as my priorities would be different. hard to walk in other's shoes. and things can change and the hobby can become more or less significant.
Enjoy beatuful life
thanks.
 
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:)

respect that you feel this way.

my viewpoint is that high end audio is an enhancement to loving music. music being the catalyst. and when you add music + high end audio = an amazing thing to enjoy and make your life better. more joy.

Agreed. I can enjoy music in many ways, including on a crappy car stereo, but nothing quite gives me the thrill of music as my home stereo.
 
Mike, thank you for this topic

I think music has no relation to high end audio so these are two different worlds. I love my airpods when climb fast or my crap car stereo makes me happy after morning run.

Audio is very lovely but it is very complex hobby (most of audiophiles are not very happy after spending lots of time and money) and many audiophiles can not end this game for different reasons.
i suppose it is possible for someone who does not really care that much about music to enjoy high end audio. there are no rules, of course.

maybe some love to build speakers or electronics. some might love 'sounds' for their own sake. or measuring stuff. of just arguing. or just talking about it. some might be into collecting old gear. or just building a great expensive system to show their friends. or collect tape decks, or collect turntables. they are all certainly included under the big high fi tent.

i do think being an audiophile is more about the mind set of desiring great music reproduction performance. so lacking that intension does indicate maybe they are in another different hobby than mine.
 
i suppose it is possible for someone who does not really care that much about music to enjoy high end audio. there are no rules, of course.

maybe some love to build speakers or electronics. some might love 'sounds' for their own sake. or measuring stuff. of just arguing. or just talking about it. some might be into collecting old gear. or just building a great expensive system to show their friends. or collect tape decks, or collect turntables. they are all certainly included under the big high fi tent.
+1
 
If I ever get to the point where I am done, it would no longer be a hobby. And then, it would just be stuff, nice stuff perhaps, but just stuff that allows me to listen to music. There’s nothing wrong with that but, then I would be searching for a new hobby. This happened to me with firearms. When a friend first took me to the range I discovered that there was that third category of firearm owners (other than LEO/military and criminals) as in law-abiding citizen so I went through a period of “collecting” firearms: an M9 (Lethal Weapon), a .44 mag (Dirty Harry), a Walther PPK (James Bond), a 1911 (Vincent Vega), etc. etc. etc. Then, I kind of ran out of ones I wanted. Long story short, firearms collecting is no longer a hobby. I’m done. The excitement is gone. They are just there, simply tools/instruments for range practice and defense (successfully warding off an assault before it happened in one instance). I digress.

All that to say, I hope I am never done with audiophilia (and record “collecting”). I ran through several other hobbies back before I turned 30 (many moons ago). When I stopped gigging, I immediately lost my desire for more guitars and guitar amps; stopped building them, too; just tools, now. Audiophilia and record “collecting” have been with me the longest and are really all that’s left. Sad, but true. I am very thankful to God for all the experiences I’ve had and the items I’ve had and/or still have but, I have reached a point of contentment with all those things or lost interest altogether. However, even if it is a small thing such as a vintage signal tube I’ve never tried in a phono pre before, or a different cartridge or a “CD” that’s been released on vinyl for the first time, it fulfills that part of me that gets excited for the fresh experience. It need not necessarily be another step towards “nirvana”, It just needs to be a step: lateral, forward (or even backwards). Continual discovery. A journey rather than a destination.

I’ll know when I am done when I spend more time sewing alongside my wife, gardening with my wife or looking for a new wife. The latter being an even more expensive “hobby” than audiophilia/record collecting.
 
If I ever get to the point where I am done, it would no longer be a hobby. And then, it would just be stuff, nice stuff perhaps, but just stuff that allows me to listen to music.

Well thats the whole point of buying audiocomponents listening to music isnt it ?....

I know i know its all about collecting as many shiny boxes as possible so more arm thick cables with golden connectors are needed to put the stuff together
 
Well thats the whole point of buying audiocomponents listening to music isnt it ?....

I know i know its all about collecting as many shiny boxes as possible so more arm thick cables with golden connectors are needed to put the stuff together
Forgive me if I am misinterpreting your comment. I do not believe “audiophilia” (buying audio components) and listening to music are the same thing. They are not mutually exclusive but, I do not consider them to be one and the same nor one being the point of the other. I hope I have said that clearly.

Often it is about the shiny things. I am not really a car guy anymore, either. However, when you buy a chrome air cleaner cover or the chrome alternator or color matched hoses, pipes and wires which no one will ever see because it’s under the hood…. …yeah, it is about the shiny things. No one into hot rodding/car modding bats an eye at that stuff; totally unnecessary for the car to get you from point A to point B. At that point, it is about the “art” of it. Presentation matters and most men are visual creatures by design. Laws of attraction. Sounds good and appeals to the preferred aesthetic equals “Winner!”

If your comments were tongue-in-cheek and I missed it, again, please excuse. It has been a truly taxing week.
 
I agree. This forum (like most) is gearcentric. Lots of pictures too. Music is secondary..
 
i disagree with this line of thought.

being an audiophile is the pursuit and appreciation of great sounding music reproduction. music is the catalyst. music loving is complimentary. beyond that there are lots of variations. and parallel hobbies related to gear or collecting. or just sound effects. or measurements.

being an audiophile is a state of mind, and exists at all dollar levels of gear. or even if you don't own a system. or stop buying gear of media.

just because hifi forums cover all these different pursuits, and we view some of them as unworthy or a waste of time, does not change what being an audiophile is. the passion for better sounding music.
 
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I don't care if it's shiny. For example, I could care less about the wave form of the chassis of my Tambaqui DAC -- it's tucked away on the lower shelf of a rack anyway. All I care about is its natural sound, free from some typical digital artifacts.
 
I haven't read this entire thread, so this topic may have already been covered, but the responses highlight the different way that folks interpret the question "How do you know when you are done?" and the different answers to the same interpretation of the question.
I was walking my dog last night after having read some of the responses to this thread, and if Interpret the question as "when am I done changing my system", then for me, practically speaking, the answer is "when my hearing/cognitive capacity declines to the point where I can no longer hear/feel any positive improvements in my emotional reaction to the music being played through my system". It's an inflectoin point I'm not looking forward to. Hope it doesn't happen soon.
 
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