What are the Top Horn Speakers in the World Today? Vox Olympian vs Avantgarde Trio vs ???

[Kozak170]

So does the Wilson Alexia V.

If you have the TAD R1’s impedance and phase graphs, why are you showing data from a completely different speaker? That’s not a valid comparison.

I meant the Reference Compact model, not the R1. The impedance and phase response graph is not available for the TAD R1, and is only available for the compact models, I wanted to provide a comparative graph of the new models from both companies. The new TAD TX series only has measurements for that model, while the Compact Reference model reviewed by Stereophile is quite old, from 2011. However, even when looking at that graph, you can see that the Wilson Alexia V has a more controlled and flatter impedance and phase response, which typically indicates better driver integration and overall system performance. On the other hand, the TAD CR-1 shows some irregularities that could affect integration and overall sound coherence.

Are you aware that TAD uses a coaxial midrange and tweeter? The key feature of coaxial drivers is that the voice coils share the same physical center, which naturally ensures time alignment at the driver level. Of course "time alignment" or in better words "time coherent" is not the result of just physical arrangement of drivers but also electrical adjustments. So, don't rely solely on "physical" about this.

Yes, you're correct that TAD uses a coaxial midrange and tweeter driver, which helps in achieving physical time alignment between the midrange and tweeter, as they share the same acoustic center. However, the main issue is that this unit (midrange/tweeter coaxial driver) is not physically time-aligned with the woofers.
In a speaker design like Wilson, where physical time alignment is ensured across all drivers (including woofers), the drivers are placed at specific distances so that the sound from all of them reaches the listener’s ear at the same time.

How can you claim that based solely on an impedance-phase-frequency graph from an entirely different speaker? That evidence doesn’t support your conclusion.

because if you look at the impulse response of the Vandersteen speaker, which claims phase and time alignment, and compare it with TAD and Wilson, you will see that there is only one impulse peak. This means that all drivers respond to the input signal at the same time, and the sound from all the drivers arrives simultaneously, ensuring cohesive and coherent sound integration. The single sharp impulse peak followed by a smooth decay is a typical characteristic of proper time alignment. However, in speakers like TAD and Wilson, you will notice that the tweeter responds to the impulse first, followed by the midrange, and then the woofer.

In order: Vandersteen Treo, Wilson Alexia V, TAD CR-1.




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The result of matching the drivers and achieving proper phase and time alignment, instead of taking the easy route with complex crossovers, is that the impedance remains between 6 and 10 ohms across most of the frequency range, resulting in a benign phase angle.

 

[bonzo75]

Alexia or TAD - what a nightmarish dilemma

 

[DasguteOhr]

If you're looking for time-accurate, low phasangle, and constant impedance, then you have to listen to Förster Audiotechnik speakers.

F ö r s t e r - Produkte / Zeitrichtige High-End Audiosysteme

Zeitrichtige HighEnd Audiosysteme - Entwicklung, Fertigung, Vertrieb

www.foersteraudio.de

10hz square wave signal and phase&impedance

 

[bonzo75]

105 plus db sensitivity, 8 on impedance, first order crossover, phase and time aligned

Thread 'Zero Distortion: Altec Assault Redux: orchestra and rock'
https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/zero-distortion-altec-assault-redux-orchestra-and-rock.35975/

 

[bonzo75]

. This problem of delayed response and poor integration was addressed in the XD series and onward, with the introduction of new active modules and DSP, allowing for seamless and integrated sound from both the Duo and Uno.

So you can’t hear the DSP integration?

 

[morricab]

So you can’t hear the DSP integration?

DSP is only on the bass.

 

[bonzo75]

DSP is only on the bass.

That starts at 170 or so? Not at below 80

 

[morricab]

That starts at 170 or so? Not at below 80

Yes, around 170 Hz. But there is no DSP on the mid horn…in fact it has no filter at all. It uses a mechanical crossover to roll off the lows in addition to the horns natural roll off.

 

[bonzo75]

Yes, around 170 Hz. But there is no DSP on the mid horn…in fact it has no filter at all. It uses a mechanical crossover to roll off the lows in addition to the horns natural roll off.

which they never got right

 

[Legolas]

Thanks. I find it rather strange sounding. Weird, colored lower mids to upper bass. Homogenized sounding and lacking resolution. Some other horn videos sound much better.

I agree, that is what I heard at Munich on the Viva horn system. Lack of integration. I thought it had promise, but seemed unfinished.

 

[Legolas]

Back to there OP, I heard the Vox Olympian twice at 2 Munich shows.Both times they were using Kondo monos with 300B on the mids / highs. The bass units are active. The power supply was battery for the first time I heard them. Up to that point this was the best system I had ever heard, and fitted my ideal sound in a room v live sound.

Since then I have heard many more big horn systems, mainly at Munich, Avante Garde, Tune Audio, Viva, Cessaro, the huge Chinese horn system, the original WE horns circa 1930s. Then Aries Cerat. The Symphonia's and bass horns squeezed into the floor 1 room in 2020 I believe it was, were superb, lots of fun was had in that space over 4 days.


I can now say hand on heart, both the Symphonia's system and later the Aurora was so close to the Living Voice, but (the Aurora) in a much more compact and practical form. This year I heard the Pallas horns, and they ARE going beyond the Living Voice, without a doubt. Smoother, more body, more dynamic. And cheaper I believe?





So to date, my vote is the Aries Cerat Pallas. I have yet to hear the Contendo II. It is not a mystery why the Pallas sounds so good, who uses an 8 inch compression driver for lower mids / upper bass? And a 4 inch midrange compression driver (both new manufacture). Along with active bass which is open backed, which IMO really fixes a lot of the bass nodes many full extension speakers suffer from. Much less room interaction. That is what my ears were telling me.

 

[Kozak170]

Alexia or TAD - what a nightmarish dilemma

End this nightmarish dilemma by choosing duo.

If you're looking for time-accurate, low phasangle, and constant impedance, then you have to listen to Förster Audiotechnik speakers.

F ö r s t e r - Produkte / Zeitrichtige High-End Audiosysteme

Zeitrichtige HighEnd Audiosysteme - Entwicklung, Fertigung, Vertrieb

www.foersteraudio.de

10hz square wave signal and phase&impedance
View attachment 157229

View attachment 157230

The goal is not merely to achieve time alignment through digital crossovers. While this may result in precise alignment in terms of timing, the sound might still be accurate in terms of measurements but lack the natural soul and warmth that many listeners associate with 'natural' sound. The Magico Ultimate horn also uses a digital crossover for time alignment, but does it produce natural sound?

 

[DasguteOhr]

End this nightmarish dilemma by choosing duo.

View attachment 157248

The goal is not merely to achieve time alignment through digital crossovers. While this may result in precise alignment in terms of timing, the sound might still be accurate in terms of measurements but lack the natural soul and warmth that many listeners associate with 'natural' sound. The Magico Ultimate horn also uses a digital crossover for time alignment, but does it produce natural sound?

Förster use a passive xover,they are a simple load, 20- 30 watt tube or class a amps sounds pretty good.

 

[Salectric]

Back to there OP, I heard the Vox Olympian twice at 2 Munich shows.Both times they were using Kondo monos with 300B on the mids / highs. The bass units are active. The power supply was battery for the first time I heard them. Up to that point this was the best system I had ever heard, and fitted my ideal sound in a room v live sound.

Since then I have heard many more big horn systems, mainly at Munich, Avante Garde, Tune Audio, Viva, Cessaro, the huge Chinese horn system, the original WE horns circa 1930s. Then Aries Cerat. The Symphonies and bass horns squeezed into the floor 1 room in 2020 I believe it was, were superb, lots of fun was had in that space over 4 days.

View attachment 157245
I can now say hand on heart, both the Symphony system and later the Aurora was so close to the Living Voice, but (the Aurora) in a much more compact and practical form. This year I heard the Pallas horns, and they ARE going beyond the Live Voice, without a doubt. Smoother, more body, more dynamic. And cheaper I believe?
View attachment 157246

View attachment 157247

So to date, my vote is the Aries Cerat Pallas. I have yet to hear the Contendo II.

What did you think of the WE horns in comparison to modern horn systems?

 

[Bonesy Jonesy]

It's not about loudness it is about woofer control. The SJS 300b is an excellent 8w amp with the silver nano trans and everything, and midrange is great, but with it the R80 struggles to show control on drums for black sabbath and wooly when cellos and double bass are in full swing. Possibly the higher powered SJS tha Kevin uses on the Olympian might manage it.

Definitive Audio have used the SJS Model 10 (Premier version) 300B Mono-Blocks with the Living Voice R80 Speakers at recent past (UK 2023 & Munich 2024 and UK 2025) HiFi Shows to give approx. 20W to the R80's.

 

[bonzo75]

End this nightmarish dilemma by choosing duo.

Will never be able to sound good as a 5k tannoy gold, used Devore O96, or this speaker that cost a bit over 5k

 

[abeidrov]

Will never be able to sound good as a 5k tannoy gold, used Devore O96, or this speaker that cost a bit over 5k

Would you put these speakers in your living room?

 

[Argonaut]

Then Aries Cerat. The Symphonies and bass horns squeezed into the floor 1 room in 2020 I believe it was, were superb, lots of fun was had in that space over 4 days.

Pretty sure that was 2019 … Moiz recorded a number of nice audio vids of Aries Cerat during that particular show Viz:

Moiz Audio

The Hi-Fi Ruckus

www.youtube.com

 

[Argonaut]

Will never be able to sound good as a 5k tannoy gold, used Devore O96, or this speaker that cost a bit over 5k

The latter does for sure convey the weight , tone and texture of symphonic recordings exceptionally well … For silly money by comparison…

 

[AudioHR]

I enjoyed reading Roy's "Loudness Wars" think piece. I agree with much of what he has to say. If I were to summarize what I think his thesis is then it would be:

Loudspeaker sensitivity and ease of drive tend to point to a speaker's ability to reproduce engaging music. Sensitiveity specs for loudspeakers are poorly defined and misleading. Loudspeaker manufactuers are making poor design decisions. They are pounding the frequency response flat with an overly complicated crossover and trying to achieve too much bass extension for the cabinet size. By doing this they are trading off high(er) sensitivity and impedance (ease of drive).

Is this what you guys came away with?

Actually for the most part yes!

Some of the various criticisms of the article are valid. It's hard to be completely comprehensive in a think piece but he put it out there and so it is open for comment.

At the end of the day I have always felt that a system must be judged on how the various components including the room work together. His article speaks to that.