What is Your Test for Comparing Two Audio Components?

[Elliot G.]

Sure.

Last month I went o hear Max Richter at Disney Concert Hall. I was in the 12th row (I think it was 12th). After the concert when I got home I immediately spun up the same tracks I had heard. My rough comparisons:
1) There was greater mid- and upper mid-range richness at home.
2) The bass heft was much greater live but lacked some resolution.
3) The 'noise floor' was much higher live!
4) Soundstaging was better in my home! Most of the instruments are being heard both direct and through amp/speakers live.
5) Treble got etchy live

I think this is an excellent way to calibrate your listening to make a plan for what you are trying to achieve at home .
Live music has a lot of traits that people don’t understand unless they experience it .
This is different for different venues and especially for different types of music.
I do think it’s a little easier to try to understand with small unamplified sound but that is only a small portion of what is available and what people like.

 

[Rt66indierock]

I do think it’s a little easier to try to understand with small unamplified sound but that is only a small portion of what is available and what people like.

Not for me, no amps is too rare to use.

 

[the sound of Tao]

Nice post as it summarizes an approach some follow. "Aiming for realism" can be the target. It is true that systems can't equal real but some get very close with some music on the best recordings. And that is the driving force for some in the hobby, perhaps many. It is hard to say because few discuss and name their goals.

Writing up a system philosophy and defining system design goals is invaluable. It allows us to be more consciously directed in our gear choices and helps uncover and frame priorities when researching and analysing new gear. Just taking time out with pen and paper and jotting down a few paragraphs and or bullet points and naming the things you ultimately want your system to be is the defining step in the process of gear evaluation. Naming our goals is an excellent way to understand more about our preferences and helps us navigate the direction.

 

[PeterA]

Writing up a system philosophy and defining system design goals is invaluable. It allows us to be more consciously directed in our gear choices and helps uncover and frame priorities when researching and analysing new gear. Just taking time out with pen and paper and jotting down a few paragraphs and or bullet points and naming the things you ultimately want your system to be is the defining step in the process of gear evaluation. Naming goals is an excellent way to understand more about our preferences and helps us navigate our direction.

You said it better than I could have Graham.

 

[Ron Resnick]

The only proper method with no relation to different tastes is “comparison by contrast”.

If dCS Verase shows more contrast than GPA Monaco turntable then microstrip is correct and if GPA Monaco shows more contrast than dCS Verase then you are correct.

No. Both ends of the comparison by contrast still are subjective. The conclusion is subjective.

This comparison by contrast concept does not allow one to escape the immutable subjectivity of this hobby.

 

[Ron Resnick]

And defining what is contrast in this particular context would also led to a never ending thread.

+1

 

[PeterA]

No. Both ends of the comparison by contrast still are subjective. The conclusion is subjective.

This comparison by contrast concept does not allow one to escape the immutable subjectivity of this hobby.

It’s an interesting critique. I’m curious about Amir’s response. I don’t see any inherent issue with judgment being subjective. It’s a hobby and we do it it for our own enjoyment.

We all remember amplifiers with vanishing distortion. Many people did not enjoy the way they sound. Something seemed missing. And we see a vibrant DIY community plus continued interest in vintage audio. There are lots of ways to enjoy this fascinating hobby.

 

[microstrip]

Nice post as it summarizes an approach some follow. "Aiming for realism" can be the target. It is true that systems can't equal real but some get very close with some music on the best recordings. And that is the driving force for some in the hobby, perhaps many. It is hard to say because few discuss and name their goals.

Can you nominate three accessible recordings that in your opinion get very close to real?

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Can you nominate three accessible recordings that in your opinion get very close to real?

these are accessible in the sense that the music is easy to 'get'. but maybe not so easy to buy. although probably the first two can be found if you want to pay. a clean 'VooDoo' might be hard to find.

Ray Brown & Laurindo Almeida - Moonlight Serenade

View credits, reviews, tracks and shop for the 1981 Vinyl release of "Moonlight Serenade" on Discogs.

www.discogs.com

make sure you use Jeton 100 3315 direct to disc pressing, there are vinyl transferred to tape and then re-pressed too. not the same. track 1, Ray Brown's double bass defines 'real' in a recording.

Ben Webster - At The Renaissance

View credits, reviews, tracks and shop for the 2002 Vinyl release of "At The Renaissance" on Discogs.

www.discogs.com

45rpm AP pressing. Webster's opening riff on "Georgia On My Mind" is awesome played loud.

The Sonny Clark Memorial Quartet - Voodoo

View credits, reviews, tracks and shop for the 1986 Vinyl release of "Voodoo" on Discogs.

www.discogs.com

Black Saint pressing only. every cut is alive. but especially "VooDoo"

 

[Al M.]

Writing up a system philosophy and defining system design goals is invaluable. It allows us to be more consciously directed in our gear choices and helps uncover and frame priorities when researching and analysing new gear. Just taking time out with pen and paper and jotting down a few paragraphs and or bullet points and naming the things you ultimately want your system to be is the defining step in the process of gear evaluation. Naming our goals is an excellent way to understand more about our preferences and helps us navigate the direction.

While I haven't formally written it down I had a pretty well defined system philosophy since decades, supplemented by listening experiences along the way of course. It has helped me to remain focused on what I really want, my listening priorities and preferences. And while I had a good amount of gear turnover in my system over the years, it seems to have been much less than that of a good number of other audiophiles. Knowing what I want has saved me quite a bit of money that way.

 

[the sound of Tao]

I like this word in the context of audio… “authentic.” Can’t say I’ve seen it used too often but highly descriptive.

It is such a good word. I’m sure we mostly get that it’s a tough gig doing much more than approximating for authenticity but even just developing a background of the different recording labels track histories on aiming at authenticity in recordings or if they are labels that have greater tendencies to editorialise in producing a more processed house sound is a learning process and even all that can be variable.

There is little easy about this pursuit if we chase for actual headway. Think that’s part of the attraction for many of us.

 

[the sound of Tao]

Probably sideways though I am not directed to a prescrbed outcome. I do think 'realism' can be a criteria for comparison.

Possibly the fundamental criteria even.

 

[Lee]

Sure.

Last month I went o hear Max Richter at Disney Concert Hall. I was in the 12th row (I think it was 12th). After the concert when I got home I immediately spun up the same tracks I had heard. My rough comparisons:
1) There was greater mid- and upper mid-range richness at home.
2) The bass heft was much greater live but lacked some resolution.
3) The 'noise floor' was much higher live!
4) Soundstaging was better in my home! Most of the instruments are being heard both direct and through amp/speakers live.
5) Treble got etchy live

Amplification does create problems in this context.

But purely acoustic performances are valuable.

 

[the sound of Tao]

I believe that we are seeking a sound that is NOT realistic. It is something else.

We are all navigating ourselves in our own way… so I believe we are not all seeking a sound that will be high on realism and that is completely good. We can be more actively involved in editorialising the experience but there is some cost (for some) if you are actively engaged in changing the sound to be as you like it if you are not the best ultimate interpretator of the music. Not an issue if the sound is all you are mostly focused on shaping. Just sometimes my aim is more stepping back from the process and just riding in the passengers seat rather than driving the experience of the original creation.

Seriously not a subject to be blasting people over at any rate. This hobby is high range and multi layered so just one ring ruling all is just very unlikely.

 

[Al M.]

I believe that we are seeking a sound that is NOT realistic. It is something else.

Realism in the strict sense is not attainable. I look for believability.

 

[PeterA]

these are accessible in the sense that the music is easy to 'get'. but maybe not so easy to buy. although probably the first two can be found if you want to pay. a clean 'VooDoo' might be hard to find.

Ray Brown & Laurindo Almeida - Moonlight Serenade

View credits, reviews, tracks and shop for the 1981 Vinyl release of "Moonlight Serenade" on Discogs.

www.discogs.com

make sure you use Jeton 100 3315 direct to disc pressing, there are vinyl transferred to tape and then re-pressed too. not the same. track 1, Ray Brown's double bass defines 'real' in a recording.

Ben Webster - At The Renaissance

View credits, reviews, tracks and shop for the 2002 Vinyl release of "At The Renaissance" on Discogs.

www.discogs.com

45rpm AP pressing. Webster's opening riff on "Georgia On My Mind" is awesome played loud.

The Sonny Clark Memorial Quartet - Voodoo

View credits, reviews, tracks and shop for the 1986 Vinyl release of "Voodoo" on Discogs.

www.discogs.com

Black Saint pressing only. every cut is alive. but especially "VooDoo"

Mike, as to the rest of my comment, do you think these recordings of this type of music get close to sounding real on any of the systems you have heard?

 

[Ron Resnick]

I like this word in the context of audio… “authentic.” Can’t say I’ve seen it used too often but highly descriptive.

Hello Bob,

In the context of this hobby how do you define "authentic"?

 

[the sound of Tao]

You said it better than I could have Graham.

Many thanks Peter, I’ve been super slack in formal action on it… I do write down a mission statement every now and then every few years but just as scribbles on note paper or in notes on my phone… I’ve done very little to actively post on it which you have done really well. When people talk about how they compare gear I’m not sure how they can distance that from having a (current understanding) big picture plan for navigation for the system and what they specifically want it to deliver and be as an experience.

 

[Doc76]

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Mike, as to the rest of my comment, do you think these recordings of this type of music

are you suggesting that one genre type does this better than others? i might somewhat agree if you are. jazz does boogie and the best artists really connect.

get close to sounding real on any of the systems you have heard?

we can pick out aspects of these recordings that fulfil micro's "very close to real" on my system. and when i play them that is exactly the comments i get from my visitors. and i have a few tapes that generally get even a little bit closer as the tapes can capture just that much more of the ambience and presence.

i say aspects because it's how our minds work. our senses are tuned to be very sensitive to those moments of 'suspension of disbelief'. we get tipped over and our emotive state takes over a little. i say aspects because real is still something different.

but to be fair i'm guessing there are other systems and vinyl set ups that might get even closer according to peoples tastes and preferences. and other systems that maybe don't get quite as close where the our reaction would still be within micro's 'very close to real' phrase. i believe that past a certain level of system performance with analog it's more a media than hardware or system issue....and we do mostly need to have some degree of preference for the particular music.