Why, oh why, does vinyl continue to blow away digital?

[Mike Lavigne]

I think Ron’s point about emotional engagement from an original analog signal not improving after a digital conversion was completely lost.

i think Ron just went a little overboard in his dismissal of digital. but understandably he has never been really serious about pursuing it for himself given his perspective. not saying he hates it. just it does not get him excited.....and has it to check a box off.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Google is your friend.

that's funny. i'll show it to my wife, then duck.

she hates google. so i say that same thing to her to get under her skin when she askes me a question. works every time.

 

[Al M.]

Google cannot find any credible ones. It seems to be quoting you, micro, and your other digital friend from this forum.

Ok, here is one of many:

Interview by Lawrence Schenbeck with Northstar’s Bert van der Wolf in

[Introduction: Bert van der Wolf is a Netherlands-based engineer/producer with over thirty years’ experience in developing and advancing high-resolution, multichannel classical recording. Recently he agreed to share his thoughts with us on a variety of topics.] You have an extraordinary wide...

spiritofturtle.com

Of course, it depends on your biases what you find credible. If you are biased against any information that contradicts your opinions, then the number of credible voices in that respect will drop to zero.

 

[bonzo75]

Ok, here is one of many:

Interview by Lawrence Schenbeck with Northstar’s Bert van der Wolf in

[Introduction: Bert van der Wolf is a Netherlands-based engineer/producer with over thirty years’ experience in developing and advancing high-resolution, multichannel classical recording. Recently he agreed to share his thoughts with us on a variety of topics.] You have an extraordinary wide...

spiritofturtle.com

Of course, it depends on your biases what you find credible. If you are biased against any information that contradicts your opinions, then the number of credible voices in that respect will drop to zero.

So with your lack of bias you seem to have found a credible one?

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Ok, here is one of many:

Interview by Lawrence Schenbeck with Northstar’s Bert van der Wolf in

[Introduction: Bert van der Wolf is a Netherlands-based engineer/producer with over thirty years’ experience in developing and advancing high-resolution, multichannel classical recording. Recently he agreed to share his thoughts with us on a variety of topics.] You have an extraordinary wide...

spiritofturtle.com

Of course, it depends on your biases what you find credible. If you are biased against any information that contradicts your opinions, then the number of credible voices in that respect will drop to zero.

i have maybe 80 to100 of his high rez recordings, and they are wonderful. probably as a group my most played digital pieces. but he is very seriously invested in high rez digital multi-channel recordings. so hardly a neutral user of all formats. in a general sense, i have compared his recordings to my vinyl many times. obviously not the same mic feed, or conductor.

i would choose my vinyl. my personal preference. but enjoy his recordings plenty and most times they are more accessible and complimentary of what i'm doing at the moment and my state of mind. my listening is 70-75% digital, and lots of large scale classical. so these recordings are in my wheelhouse.

 

[PeterA]

that's funny. i'll show it to my wife, then duck.

she hates google. so i say that same thing to her to get under her skin when she askes me a question. works every time.

Whether Al’s claim can be supported by actual quotes from recording engineers or not, seeing something from a Google search does not override the value of extensive personal experience. You seem to rely on yours to support your opinion. I respect that.

I was relying on mine when I wrote earlier that I have not experienced increased emotional connection to, or simple enjoyment of, the music after an original analog signal has been converted to digital. That is only my opinion based on my experience.

I don’t see Ron defending his rather strong claim, and I don’t see any support for his claim from others disputing that nothing good comes from the conversion in terms of emotional involvement or connection or whatever you want to call it.

 

[Vicks7]

i have maybe 80 to100 of his high rez recordings, and they are wonderful. probably as a group my most played digital pieces. but he is very seriously invested in high rez digital multi-channel recordings. so hardly a neutral user of all formats. in a general sense, i have compared his recordings to my vinyl many times. obviously not the same mic feed, or conductor.

i would choose my vinyl. my personal preference. but enjoy his recordings plenty and most times they are more accessible and complimentary of what i'm doing at the moment and my state of mind. my listening is 70-75% digital, and lots of large scale classical. so these recordings are in my wheelhouse.

Mike, do you have any recommendations of say a dozen of these albums to purchase/download?

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Mike, do you have any recommendations of say a dozen of these albums to purchase/download?

i will later today when i get a chance. the ones i have are all either dxd (352/24) or dsd256......so are large files....especially the dxd files.

 

[nirodha]

obviously i'm a serious tape guy with very high level tape decks. so i get that part. but if they seriously think their digital competes musically with their decks then more reason to see their views as incomplete.

I consider sentences without the use of capital letters incomplete.

 

[Kingrex]

I was mulling last night how this thread could go on so long. Then I got a little twinge thinking what a shame for the people that can't find a way to fully enjoy digital. A sad loss for them. Trapped in one media.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I consider sentences without the use of capital letters incomplete.

like digital is incomplete by degrees?

as a baby boomer never learned to type. so later when we got computers in my job i just started two finger hunting and pecking. and soon at work the programs did most of the capitalization for me. so there ya go. i'm a path of least resistance kinda guy. there were communications at work where i had to go and edit my work. but not often. and now i'm retired.

my apologies if it offends you. none intended. wish the forum cleaned things up like Outlook.

 

[PeterA]

I was mulling last night how this thread could go on so long. Then I got a little twinge thinking what a shame for the people that can't find a way to fully enjoy digital. A sad loss for them. Trapped in one media.

I don’t really understand what you’re trying to say. I don’t think anyone on either side feels trapped.

I enjoy digital in my truck and on YouTube. I also enjoyed listening to Al M’s digital only system last night. I would not attribute the sound of his system to the fact that it is digital only.

 

[Rexp]

I don’t really understand what you’re trying to say. I don’t think anyone on either side feels trapped.

I enjoy digital in my truck and on YouTube. I also enjoyed listening to Al M’s digital only system last night. I would not attribute the sound of his system to the fact that it is digital only.

Did you take a video or was that strictly verboten?

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Mike, do you have any recommendations of say a dozen of these albums to purchase/download?

Burt van der Wolf's label is 'Challenge Classics. our member @Audiocrack started a thread about it 10 years ago. it's a good place to get more info. Spirit of Turtle is where you can find the downloads for the files.

here are a few i play often. not found a dog yet in any of these from this label but some music is an acquired taste like anything.

Bruckner Symphonies #1, #6, & #8. all Jaap van Zewden; i own both the dxd and 256dsd files on all three.
Beethoven Symphonies #2 and #3, #4 and #6, #1 and #5, #7 and #8, #9 all JW de Vriend; i own both dxd and 256dsd files for all 5.
Prokofiev Symphonies #1 and #5, #3 and #4, #6 and #7. and by James Gaffigan, also own both dxd and 256dsd for all three.

also have all 5 of the Beethoven Piano Concerto's; Hannes Minnaar, JW van Vriend.

obviously all ultra epic pieces and i can go to these anytime for some superb musical enjoyment. they never fail.

 

[Vicks7]

Burt van der Wolf's label is 'Challenge Classics. our member @Audiocrack started a thread about it 10 years ago. it's a good place to get more info. Spirit of Turtle is where you can find the downloads for the files.

here are a few i play often. not found a dog yet in any of these from this label but some music is an acquired taste like anything.

Bruckner Symphonies #1, #6, & #8. all Jaap van Zewden; i own both the dxd and 256dsd files on all three.
Beethoven Symphonies #2 and #3, #4 and #6, #1 and #5, #7 and #8, #9 all JW de Vriend; i own both dxd and 256dsd files for all 5.
Prokofiev Symphonies #1 and #5, #3 and #4, #6 and #7. and by James Gaffigan, also own both dxd and 256dsd for all three.

also have all 5 of the Beethoven Piano Concerto's; Hannes Minnaar, JW van Vriend.

obviously all ultra epic pieces and i can go to these anytime for some superb musical enjoyment. they never fail.

thanks so much Mike for these recommendations

 

[microstrip]

anecdotal. a data point. unless we had an all analog mic feed pressing to compare we just tip our hat that that digitally recorded one is very fine and move on. performance and the whole recording process are big parts of any result. not just the format.

Surely just a a data point. But fortunately from someone who has an open mind and is well known to the audiophile community.

The known comparisons with mic feeds are of limited value, as the source is usually simple music because of the involved logistics - a piano or just a few instruments. But they are interesting and favor the digital transparency.

 

[PeterA]

Did you take a video or was that strictly verboten?

I was listening to recent set up changes and knew better than to suggest a video, although in hindsight, it might’ve been very interesting for Al to record the before and after results of the changes.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Surely just a a data point. But fortunately from someone who has an open mind and is well known to the audiophile community.

The known comparisons with mic feeds are of limited value, as the source is usually simple music because of the involved logistics - a piano or just a few instruments. But they are interesting and favor the digital transparency.

no. not true at all for this one. it favored the analog. more textures and clear micro dynamics, as well as more tonal weight and drive. but the digital is very good for sure.

one such "NOT SIMPLE MUSIC" dual mic feed example is Reference Recordings "Arnold Overtures"; where you have a very well respected iconic engineer and producer; Keith Johnson and J. Tamblyn Henderson, and their tape deck, along with the Pacific Microsonic II ADC capturing it at 176/24.

so you have a RR CD, and a RR HRX 176/24 file, along with a Stan Ricker mastered vinyl and the Tape Project 15ips 1/4" master dub. no place to hide.

i've done this compare with all 4 a few times, and yes....it's still anecdotal but also profound. the music is admittedly a bit 'meh' but you cannot argue with the sonics.

 

[microstrip]

i have maybe 80 to100 of his high rez recordings, and they are wonderful. probably as a group my most played digital pieces. but he is very seriously invested in high rez digital multi-channel recordings. so hardly a neutral user of all formats. in a general sense, i have compared his recordings to my vinyl many times. obviously not the same mic feed, or conductor.

i would choose my vinyl. my personal preference. but enjoy his recordings plenty and most times they are more accessible and complimentary of what i'm doing at the moment and my state of mind. my listening is 70-75% digital, and lots of large scale classical. so these recordings are in my wheelhouse.

I have said it before - IMO your system favors vinyl and I am happy you personally prefer vinyl. I never listened to your particular speakers, but listened to the MM3 several times when they were distributed in my country and hosted the top Dartzeel's for few weeks a few years ago, as I have considered buying both. The reason I gave up on them was just because IMO they were not able to show the best of digital.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I have said it before - IMO your system favors vinyl and I am happy you personally prefer vinyl. I never listened to your particular speakers, but listened to the MM3 several times when they were distributed in my country and hosted the top Dartzeel's for few weeks a few years ago, as I have considered buying both. The reason I gave up on them was just because IMO they were not able to show the best of digital.

that is the cop out of cop outs.