I am sick of failing amplifiers
- Thread starter Kingrex
- Start date
That could be it.
Per my post in the SET thread. After repositioning my speakers, My kT88PP Blade amp is so much better than my SET 845, I will be ignoring the 845 for a while. I am shocked how good the Blade is at bass. And everything else. Blade is a transformer coupled, differential design PP with a Mercury rectifier. As well as tube voltage regulation, tube driver and a pair of KT88 power tubes. Mostly Monolith iron. 78 lbs per 40 watt monoblocks.
I tried a Blade vs Audion 845 compare again. First I was playing a 7.5 ips tape of Dylan on the 845. I was very pleased. Just nice. Nothing to worry about. I got deep into the music. When the side ended I put on a 15 ips of tchaikovsky's piano concerto. After a few minutes I was very aware the 845 was not sorting out the complexity. It was rich and warm. But not in a good way. I then turned it off and inserted the Blade. Cold, that KT120 PP just slaughtered the 845. The detail, speed, percussive force on drums. Way way higher with the Blade. Again, I got deep into the music.
I never botherd to put Dylan back on with the blade when Tchaikovsky was done.
If I were to compare my setup with a world class, Ked would come visit, I would say I have a foundation. My speaker can do it. But it needs work. I think I would have to biamp to get more power to the woofers. And I need the swarm of subs .
I never botherd to put Dylan back on with the blade when Tchaikovsky was done.
If I were to compare my setup with a world class, Ked would come visit, I would say I have a foundation. My speaker can do it. But it needs work. I think I would have to biamp to get more power to the woofers. And I need the swarm of subs .
Very generally speaking you are describing the difference between SET and PP, assuming both are as competent as possible. Quite simply if you don't push an SET they can sound alright, but throw anything complex at an SET and it will fall flat on its face.
Certainly they are responsible for a step or two backwards...Do they ever fall backwards?
I was just surprised how big the gap was. Mike L made a comment in another thread about giving up resolution for harmonic richness. On simple music like Dylan, it did not matter so much. I was really into the music. I got carried away and was listening to the song. My Audion is a good amp. But faced with complex music containing details such as in classical, it fell way far behind. It was actually a put off. I am very familiar with the tape. I was actually agitated, like, what's wrong. Where is the music. It was more like a homogonous sound coming at me. As soon as the KT120PP went in, it was night and day. I immediately relaxed and fell back into enjoying the performance for the performance. I wasn't looking fore missing information anymore.
FWIW, I am liking the Upscale Audio KT120 cryo tube. My favorite before that was the KT88 Shuguang Hidden Treasure 50th anniversary issue. Pretty similar. The KT120 has a little more body. The KT88 has a little more fluidity. Neither is right or wrong.
FWIW, I am liking the Upscale Audio KT120 cryo tube. My favorite before that was the KT88 Shuguang Hidden Treasure 50th anniversary issue. Pretty similar. The KT120 has a little more body. The KT88 has a little more fluidity. Neither is right or wrong.
I tried again. I like the warmth the 845 adds. But it also becomes a distraction if you think about it. And it does cover over detail. Maybe thats the distraction. I hear the bloat for the bloat. But I do like the added body. I'm wondering what a PP 300B would do. A friend was pushing one on me. But the $4000 in tubes every 2000 to 30000 hours was a turn off. The KT120 are $550 every 2000 to 3000.
I tested a Honda Civic once. It was just alright. A Ferrari must be just as mediocre because it's a 'car' as well and since the Honda Civic is just OK all cars must just be Ok.
That appears to be your argument on SET's.
Not everyone can get the best out of SET designs just like not everyone can design a car like Ferrari.
Contrasting a SET to a Ferrari seems like you are suggesting that that SET is Ferrari
However SETs may be more like a model-T in design?
Which, I suppose makes the differential and maybe the transmission equate to the transformer.
It is great if the speakers are 16 ohms and high sensitivity, but the trend has moved from 16 ohms to 8 and towards 4.
My SET is a $16,000 amp. Thats not a Chinese knock off. Its all factory parts with a current circuit. The only non factory part is the Output transformer. Yes this is a critical piece. Mine is a Electroprint fixed 6 ohm. Its probably as good as the stock.
And really, when I compare where my 845 is compared to $5000 PP, its way better. Those cheap PP are not that good. Maybe its my Blade PP is that good, impacting my perception of the 845.
Having said that, its obvious what is lacking with the 845.
My Blade is not perfect either. If I were to put a really nice SS amp on my speaker, which I have (Dartzeel, Thrax) I get more bass boost in the mid bass. More body. I don't hear the congestion. But I have a little natural. Good detail, but not as good as the Blade. But SS is not sensed as congestion or an issue sorting complex music. And the mid bass, mid boost is less pronounced with SS. Its more subtle. Its less dynamic and percussive than the Blade. But its more fleshed and full. Its more a preference choice with the Blade vs good SS. Its an obvious quality gap with the Blade and the 845.
And really, when I compare where my 845 is compared to $5000 PP, its way better. Those cheap PP are not that good. Maybe its my Blade PP is that good, impacting my perception of the 845.
Having said that, its obvious what is lacking with the 845.
My Blade is not perfect either. If I were to put a really nice SS amp on my speaker, which I have (Dartzeel, Thrax) I get more bass boost in the mid bass. More body. I don't hear the congestion. But I have a little natural. Good detail, but not as good as the Blade. But SS is not sensed as congestion or an issue sorting complex music. And the mid bass, mid boost is less pronounced with SS. Its more subtle. Its less dynamic and percussive than the Blade. But its more fleshed and full. Its more a preference choice with the Blade vs good SS. Its an obvious quality gap with the Blade and the 845.
Hi - not what I was saying. What I was commenting on what the oversimplification that SET's can't handle complex music.
The Aries-Cerat I've had here has easily powered "normal speakers" at a variety of loads and efficiency with no issues with everything from Gauder Acoustics, Audio solution, Tobain and several more.
The statement about it needing to be 16 ohms and high sensitivity has not shown to be true in my real world experience.
My current amplification is 22 years old. All original parts. I still have exciting sound (i.e. full of energy, very high level of resolution, and dynamics).
Very many years ago I had an Ampliton amp, originally designed for KT88 (WE) converted by the designer to 845. At the time, I had no idea what this was all about, but it drove my Apogee Calipers well enough enough & loud enough to keep me happy and alert the neighbours. Lucky for me they were cool music lovers...
I am surprised by the mid-bass boost you mention. I would have expected deeper bass reproduction and more linearity but less midrange realism...
Back to the original theme of this discussion: failing amps.
I recently met the person who now owns my old Ampliton: it still works and has recently (!) been given a new set of tubes!. The exclamation comes from the fact that I sold that amp 25 years ago -- i.e. it has been plodding with those same tubes for donkey's years...
Hi - not sure what you are trying to say.
Are you suggesting that because it's $16,000 it's the best 845 there is and it's not possible for a better design or a better 845 amp?
Or are you suggesting in a wide ranging statement that the 845 tube/design is flawed and incapable based on your experience with you amp?
Just trying to understand.
^Got it.^
I was coming at it from a more historical perspective with high impedance speakers and SETs in the olden days.
But I am also not sure what has changed in the circuit's in the last … years.
I wonder if it's not a little of, older SET on high efficiency speakers created a wonderful sound. Newer sets with heroic engineering by very intelligent designers can work on a broader range of speakers. Aries Cerat probably sounds great on many different systems. But just the amplifier costs as much as my entire stereo. So there's that to consider.
There is no doubt that they can and do sound good.
That is the paradox with distortion… we like it, more than we dislike it.
I do like the 845 on some music. More simple singer songs. Like Tony or Frank or Diana K. I was deep into Dylan with the 845. It was the classical that caused the issues.
I assume better SET on a horn would play classical fantastic. I have heard a SET 45 on horns playing punk rock. Great day of listening. When I would go to Howards and listen to his Voice of The Theater, he was a believer in power. He had Altec 1570B on the woofers and 1569 on the horn. Thats like, 140 Watts of 811 on the woofers and 40 watts or ElL34 on the mid/high.
I assume better SET on a horn would play classical fantastic. I have heard a SET 45 on horns playing punk rock. Great day of listening. When I would go to Howards and listen to his Voice of The Theater, he was a believer in power. He had Altec 1570B on the woofers and 1569 on the horn. Thats like, 140 Watts of 811 on the woofers and 40 watts or ElL34 on the mid/high.
I have heard a number of SET's that were fast and left nothing to be desired in terms of bass response or resolving orchestral or other complexity (e.g., Aric Audio, Melody Valve, Wavac, Zanden, etc). SET designs vary and the other components and accessories you use with them make a big difference.
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