But still no critical thinking or robust sources of data around replacement.
I do agree with his point about music formats driving a lot of this.
Is Audiophilia a Dying Hobby or Just in Need of a Tune-Up?
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But still no critical thinking or robust sources of data around replacement.
I do agree with his point about music formats driving a lot of this.
While I don't have the most expensive kind of system, I have heard both cheaper and more expensive variants of most of my components, in several instances in side-by-side comparisons. I am very confident that I got my money's worth.
I was at Munich in 2019 and saw a lot of families with young people. I was encouraged by that.
Merry Christmas to you as well!
I think it would be cool to link gear demo rooms with record sales stores. One room with vinyl vintage receivers and Klipsch or Altec speakers. Another room with vinyl streaming and contemporary electronics and medium size cone speakers. Make them cool places to hang out. Offer cocktails at night and tea and coffee and pastries during the day. Locate them in neighborhoods in big to medium size cities where young people live and hang out, and where there are vintage clothing, stores, and an art scene.
I went to just such a neighborhood in Dallas when my daughter was going to college there. The place was hopping on a Saturday morning and the only thing missing were the listening demo rooms. Audio used to be a shared experience with people hanging out together and flipping records. Young people like to socialize, though they seem to be listening to music by themselves with headphones. Combine the music with the socializing and a cool factor and located where they already live and hang out. Then it won’t seem so elite and exclusive.
And this might be controversial, but I would hire attractive younger women to serve the drinks. That gets the boys there, and then more girls will follow because that’s where the boys are. It’s an old formula that works.
I went to just such a neighborhood in Dallas when my daughter was going to college there. The place was hopping on a Saturday morning and the only thing missing were the listening demo rooms. Audio used to be a shared experience with people hanging out together and flipping records. Young people like to socialize, though they seem to be listening to music by themselves with headphones. Combine the music with the socializing and a cool factor and located where they already live and hang out. Then it won’t seem so elite and exclusive.
And this might be controversial, but I would hire attractive younger women to serve the drinks. That gets the boys there, and then more girls will follow because that’s where the boys are. It’s an old formula that works.
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From 2005 to 2021 my system was little changed. I was working and didn’t have time to do much. I visited Harry’s store now and then when in town and a couple of other stores in other cities. Harry showed me a streaming setup around 2012 and it intrigued me but I didn’t get into streaming until 2022. Once retired I revamped my entire system. It was a 2 year project in earnest and then some follow up changes on the digital side over the next couple of years. It required perseverance and determination. It paid off but only because I had the time to work at it. I do my own yard work, house repairs and oil changes so it would be difficult for me to let someone design and build an audio system for me.
I would say that the higher cost gear requires more effort and tuning to get rewarding results- or expected results versus lower cost gear. What I mean is, the room, the setup, the cables all matter more. System synergy is independent of cost. That means find speakers that you like in your room- step 1, both visually and aurally and then match amps to those speakers- step 2, then cables and up the chain to the source.
Step 1 is the hardest part. Some people want you to tell them what they like.
I would say that the higher cost gear requires more effort and tuning to get rewarding results- or expected results versus lower cost gear. What I mean is, the room, the setup, the cables all matter more. System synergy is independent of cost. That means find speakers that you like in your room- step 1, both visually and aurally and then match amps to those speakers- step 2, then cables and up the chain to the source.
Step 1 is the hardest part. Some people want you to tell them what they like.
Does anyone here follow Darko Audio?
John is the guru of what many refer to as "future fi", and bridges the gap between the high-end gear we discuss on WBF and affordable high-fidelity gear that includes head-fi, wireless speakers, DSP, non-wired speakers, affordable amplifiers, Apple TV, Roon, Atmos you name it. He's also into hip music that younger generations dig. That said, I always see John Darko roaming the halls of HE Munich usually with another aging hipster (compliment is meant here to both men), Michael Lavorgnia who features all manner of uber high-end gear on his channel Twittering Machines.
I know many of us will laugh but companies like Bluesound, Wiim, Eversolo, Technics, Focal, Cambridge Audio, Kef, etc. are building brands that will drive future music lovers into better sound, yes even high-end.
Perhaps the big problem with audiophilia is that we refer to people who love great sound audiophiles. Does anyone have a better name to define us - yeah that's the ticket!
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays all!
John is the guru of what many refer to as "future fi", and bridges the gap between the high-end gear we discuss on WBF and affordable high-fidelity gear that includes head-fi, wireless speakers, DSP, non-wired speakers, affordable amplifiers, Apple TV, Roon, Atmos you name it. He's also into hip music that younger generations dig. That said, I always see John Darko roaming the halls of HE Munich usually with another aging hipster (compliment is meant here to both men), Michael Lavorgnia who features all manner of uber high-end gear on his channel Twittering Machines.
I know many of us will laugh but companies like Bluesound, Wiim, Eversolo, Technics, Focal, Cambridge Audio, Kef, etc. are building brands that will drive future music lovers into better sound, yes even high-end.
Perhaps the big problem with audiophilia is that we refer to people who love great sound audiophiles. Does anyone have a better name to define us - yeah that's the ticket!
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays all!
The idea of listening rooms in record stores once existed here in the UK, still does in Japan. Not sure why they stopped here, probably around wastage, profits.
Hiring attractive college women to serve drinks sounds like "Hooters". I think that attraction has been thought of before.
It certainly has been. In Manhattan there was the restaurant “Live Bait” and the W bar near where I used to work. Young guys wanted to go to these places and young women went because that’s where the boys were. They were wildly popular and hip because they were cool places to hang out. Hooters is different.
Pardon me, but how exactly would something like “Live Bait” address the question posed in this thread?
My suggestion is to expose young people to a quality listening experience. One way to do that, is to lure them in to a setting that is hip and cool. They are already in the record store. Add some listing rooms in the back, create a relaxed setting where they wanna hang out, maybe have a drink and socialize enveloped in a good listening experience. If it’s cool enough, they may even wanna come back or think about staying after they buy their records.
Live Bait was a really popular place to go to for young people when I lived in New York studying architecture. It was affordable and hip and a fun place to hang out. Throw in some good music reproduced on systems that are affordable or slightly aspirational, and it might expose people to the hobby.
The name was a big part of it, but a restaurant is slightly different from a record and gear store. Make listening to music on a stereo cool again. Call it “Good Vibration” or “Into the Groove”. Or simply “Spin”.
There hasn't been anything attractive at Hooters in at least a decade and unfortunately young people don't socialize the same way us or our parents did IMO. Tinder, online dating, and immediate satisfaction have not helped society. You can get acceptable sound(for most) for very little money these days, it takes someone truly dedicated and a little crazy to go this far down the rabbit's hole. I worry for the future, the demand is declining while prices continue to rise.
As a dedicated audiophile (audio nut), from where I'm sitting, higher end components are too expensive. There are too many well meaning individuals and companies trying to sell into a market that is just too small. There is no economy of scale for many if not most of these makers. Final cost of gadgets are influenced by many factors, the need for small operators to make a living, the cost of basic bits to make the gadget, advertising, reviewing fees, freebees, transport of the final product around the world, export and import costs, importer distributor mark ups, taxes, the list goes on. There's not a day goes by when there's not another "hi-fi" product, doing much the same as its earlier iteration and at an increased price appearing in some magazine review. Sure it's great to hear and read about the latest gadget but where do they expect the average person to find the money to purchase or upgrade. As for me, I've built a pretty decent system up over the years as I'm lucky enough to have had the money but it has come with sacrifices in other areas. I'm 84 and most of my friends with an interest in audio are rapidly catching up with me and no, I see very few younger people following in our footsteps. That's my two bobs worth for now. Hope I haven't rambled too much.
It’s easy to say hifi is too expensive but do you really know how much it costs to manufacture now? Most companies are doing 4-6X bill of materials which is completely fair.
Several manufacturers have shown me where certain parts have gone up 4-5X over just the last four years.
Also, affordable gear sounds way ahead of where it was ten years ago.
I don’t think price is the problem here.
Why do you believe demand is declining? Do you have any evidence?
I think that’s only part of the problem. I live in California where housing costs are extremely high. It’s very very difficult for even high earners to break into the market. My neighbors have children in their late twenties to the mid-thirties and the older two with their wives (I don’t know if children are involved) are sharing a single family house. The parents inherited the house from his mother when she passed and the taxes are $36,000 annually! They are not able to afford audio systems for both money and space reasons. I don’t know the housing situation in other states, but I do know there is a nation wide trend for children to stay in the nest much longer than in the past and when they do finally set up a household it is small and expensive with little money left over for luxuries like a high end music system. Most wouldn’t know what that is unless their parents had a traditional system that they were exposed to.
Another problem is the absence of the brick and mortar store. Every decent sized community had one. I used to walk past them on errands and stop to look around and listen. It was an attraction that is almost non-existent today.
I bought a used iPhone from another member of my community. He was in his 40s I think and came to my house to deliver and immediately remarked on my audio system. He was very complimentary and said he used to want similar but now he only wants portable music. He is not even young and yet he is no longer interested in a static system.
Meanwhile, at 86, I have been into music and audio since I was a teenager and just spent a small fortune on upgrading my system. I wanted to enjoy my remaining years with a great audio system. It didn’t occur to me to go portable. I want what I have and love what I have and feel sad that I’m almost certainly a member of a dying group.
Lee,
The cost of parts and production can fluctuate, but that doesn’t change the reality that high-end audio equipment is often expensive. When the cost of audio components rivals that of a no-limit Porsche, it’s undeniably costly.
Additionally, I doubt that salaries have increased at the same rate as the prices of high-end audio gear.
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