You know you're an audio junkie when .................

[Barry2013]

Last Tuesday I took delivery and installation of a brand new pair of Entreq Challenger biwire speaker cables to replace my single wire and jumper Konstantins, Only arrived from Sweden the day before so no burn in at all. Sound quality drops a substantial number of notches and 80-100 hours burn in needed.
Get stuck in with initial understanding and stoicism, tolerable with all the Xmas diversions but by this morning with no more than 50 hours under the belt getting frustrated and despondent and craving for some decent sound. This evening sound recovers significantly and layers of stress and frustration begin to peel away making the remaining period of burn in manageable.
Hopefully only about two more days or so before real benefits become apparent.
I really could not have imagined how deprived and frustrated I have been. Flat sound, compressed sound stage, sparkle and musicality and PRAT factors all missing.
Audio cold turkey!

 

[Barry2013]

With use of course!
Simply sharing the inevitable pain of the burn in period which I had hoped was apparent from my post but maybe I overestimated some people's powers of understanding

 

[Peter Breuninger]

Burn in simply does not exist, how could it, by what mechanism?
Burn in is just some nonsense propagated by dealers and manufacturers.
Keith.

Keith, you must be the only dealer in the world who does not believe in burn in.

 

[andromedaaudio]

I am with you keith but apparently our systems or hearing aint good enough, good thing is it saves a load of money

 

[BlueFox]

Burn in simply does not exist, how could it, by what mechanism?
Burn in is just some nonsense propagated by dealers and manufacturers.
Keith.

Well, I guess that settles that. You can't refute a well reasoned, cogent statement based on science, and not personal bias or ignorance.

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

Like this hasn't been discussed 100 times before....I'm still not 100% convinced about burn-in, although I can't dispute it as I feel there is a difference over time. My problem is that I can't decipher where that difference actually comes from.

 

[Joe Whip]

THis subject has been beaten to death so many times. But what the hell. I don't buy burn in with cables either. Or directionality for that matter.

 

[treitz3]

Burn in simply does not exist, how could it, by what mechanism?
Burn in is just some nonsense propagated by dealers and manufacturers.
Keith.

Hello PuriteAudio. That is your stance, opinion and thought process. That's all good and dandy, everybody is entitled to their opinion(s). With that said, you have already stated your opinion and it is duly noted. Please do not repeat this opinion again, especially in another thread that doesn't specifically discuss it. First off, it is against the TOS to state things that cause heated arguments. The TOS can be found here >>> http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?1207-Terms-Of-Service. Secondly, your post immediately threw this thread completely off topic from the get go.

Now, if you want to talk about this particular subject again, you are welcome to start your own thread on the subject or continue one of the other threads that specifically discuss this. Please consider this a formal warning. Thank you.

Tom

 

[thedudeabides]

Heaven forbid we should enjoy a forum where there is any form of debate!

It's one thing to say you respectfully disagree with another's assertion. That's responsible, constructive debate.

It's another to call it "nonsense".

You again appear to not understand how absolutist, confrontational, arrogant, and condescending the latter is.

As I've said before, you are not the arbiter of truth.

If you don't like the forum rules as enforced by the moderators, you can always stop posting.

 

[marty]

How do you imagine cables 'burn in' ?
Keith

Keith, there are some aspects of burn-in that I do not understand. But there are also some that are well-accepted phenomenon of metallurgy such as annealing, which occurs every time dissimilar metals are placed in contact with each other. Annealing is grounded in real world physics as noted in the link below. Its not hard to appreciate that this could very well be what accounts for at least part of the process we call "burn-in".

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...-cable-quot-break-in-quot&highlight=annealing

 

[Asamel]

I don't think Keith deserves any criticism here. Burn in was part of the topic so it's up for discussion. He certainly wasn't rude or disrespectful. He did ask about a scientific mechanism and no one has answered that question.

What's wrong with dissenting opinion and spirited discussion?

I will point out that Purite Audio spells analog "analogue" so we should take his opinion with a grain of salt.

 

[rockitman]

I don't think Keith deserves any criticism here. Burn in was part of the topic so it's up for discussion. He certainly wasn't rude or disrespectful. He did ask about a scientific mechanism and no one has answered that question.

What's wrong with dissenting opinion and spirited discussion?

I will point out that Purite Audio spells analog "analogue" so we should take his opinion with a grain of salt.

You must not be paying attention Bruce. He trolls various threads. No good comes out of that. He appears to be an antagonist.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I don't think Keith deserves any criticism here. Burn in was part of the topic so it's up for discussion. He certainly wasn't rude or disrespectful. He did ask about a scientific mechanism and no one has answered that question.

What's wrong with dissenting opinion and spirited discussion?

I will point out that Purite Audio spells analog "analogue" so we should take his opinion with a grain of salt.

just read Keith's last 50 or 75 posts.......and draw your own conclusions.

I'm sure Keith is a good guy and likely fun to listen with; but he seems to like to attack stuff (except defending his own product Weiss) and listening ideas pretty much. it takes no effort to be anti continually. bring something positive first and then some negativity is reasonable in balance.

but hey, that's just my own perspective. moderation can delete this if they like.

 

[Asamel]

I don't know any history, I was just following the thread. I am interested in what people thought about break in and how it comes about.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I am not anti everything, just notions which are peddled as truth but in fact cannot be substantiated.
I am very positive for anything that can be shown to improve sound quality.
I am also not familiar with your usage of the word 'troll , you apply this to anyone who doesn't agree with you?
Keith.

there is a perfect place for you.

see #8 in their terms of service.

like minded people. tons of fun! the 'root canal' of audio forums. you should feel right at home. but not too many listeners there to pick on so where's the fun?

a little bit of that goes a long way IMHO. kinda like super ridiculously hot BBQ sauce.

 

[microstrip]

I don't know any history, I was just following the thread. I am interested in what people thought about break in and how it comes about.

We had a recent WBF thread on burn-in http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?16131-Cable-burn-in-Is-it-real-or-imagined&p=292332&viewfull=1#post292332

If you want to research WBF opinions on burn-in just search using this google search line. https://www.google.com/search?as_q=%22cable%22+%22burn+in%22+site%3Awhatsbestforum.com+&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&lr=&cr=&as_qdr=all&as_sitesearch=&as_occt=any&safe=images&tbs=&as_filetype=&as_rights=&gws_rd=ssl
Much better than feeding trolls.

 

[PeterA]

I can't reply Marty ,I have had my warning, but I would check the Wiki entry for annealing.
Keith.

I can't reply, but I will anyway......

 

[thedudeabides]

I am also not familiar with your usage of the word 'troll , you apply this to anyone who doesn't agree with you? Keith.

You've never heard the word "troll" on internet forums?

Really?

From my experience, ML is very open and understanding of disparate points of view. As are other members of this forum. Somewhat the total opposite of your apparent perspective on how to communicate without offending. He also likely owns one of the finest systems on the planet. For the record, I've never heard it and really don't want to so I can continue to listen to my system with a high level of enjoyment. He is very humble regarding this fact.

Maybe you can learn something from him.

Please check wikipedia for the definition of troll.

 

[treitz3]

Last Tuesday I took delivery and installation of a brand new pair of Entreq Challenger biwire speaker cables <snip> but by this morning with no more than 50 hours under the belt getting frustrated and despondent and craving for some decent sound. This evening sound recovers significantly and layers of stress and frustration begin to peel away making the remaining period of burn in manageable. <snip>

Followed by...

Burn in simply does not exist, how could it, by what mechanism?
Burn in is just some nonsense propagated by dealers and manufacturers.
Keith.

Okay, so most of us know the definition of an internet troll. The most polite way of defining one that I have personally found is - "One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument". A comment was made about "debate" which was, and I quote....

Heaven forbid we should enjoy a forum where there is any form of debate!

The administration team, moderation team and general membership all love a good constructive debate. This is how we learn things about our hobby we hold so dear to us. I don't think there is one member here at the WBF that would debate that. With that said, please....just for a moment take a look at your style of posting and your response. Barry had mentioned that he was disappointed in the performance of a certain product until burn in was complete. He had mentioned that (highlighted in bold above by me) the sound recovered significantly and layers of stress and frustration began to peel away, making the remaining period of burn in manageable. He was sharing his frustration and his experience of a change in the sound that made things a little bit more tolerable for him until more time had passed. No problem, just a person sharing his experiences with the general membership here at the WBF. This is great!

Then, in one swift moment in time, he is told that burn in simply does not exist and that it is just some nonsense propagated by dealers and manufacturers. Now this is where I would like you to sit back and think about what you just said. You basically told him that the change in sound is complete nonsense, making his personal observations about what he is observing (according to you) complete BS. You stated this as FACT, not an opinion. This is where the problem lies. I hope you see where I am coming from. Had you stated that you felt as if burn in was a hoax propagated by manufactures and that you couldn't see how that could ever be the case? Perhaps the responses you have gotten wouldn't have turned out the way they have.

Healthy debate is always welcome here at the WBF but there is a great difference between debate and what has transpired here in this thread. I really do hope you realize this. Just friendly food for thought Keith.

Tom

 

[thedudeabides]

Tom,

Great post.

Once all is said and done, I sincerely doubt that PA will get IT.

And assuming he doesn't, hopefully he will realize that fact and simply stop posting on WBF and find another forum that's more "understanding" of his views and communication skills.