What is it about the bass, that it becomes so robust with after-market cords and conditioners?

[KeithR]

You're throwing the baby away with the bathwater. Just because there's a whole bunch of stuff out there that's just fancy tone controls, doesn't mean EVERYTHING is, and we should all use lampcord.

Same as amps and DACs and everything else in audio, you'll have the good ones and the bad ones, and a whole lot in between...

First, I said "most" and second, where did I advocate for lamp cord? That isn't even what I use at home.

 

[asiufy]

"decent copper cables", your words, could be anything, from lampcord, Ching Cheng, to MIT, and everything in between...

My point is that we shouldn't diminish the importance of cables in a fully formed setup. Some people do go overboard, and that's because the industry feeds into it, but as I said, there's a lot of "in between" stuff that's good, and it's not just "decent copper cable".

 

[BlueFox]

I also recommend to purge your system of all audiophile wires if you really want to know what's going on. Radioshack has some great inexpensive wires for you to use as a reference. I don't claim that they're best but there's absolutely nothing wrong with them. They're not colored and they don't do anything special so you can actually hear your system instead of your wires. This is what I recommended to all my friends & customers with ultra high end systems as a starting point, many are still using them.

Interesting idea. On the other this is how I started out, Radio Shack ICs, lamp cord for speakers, and whatever power cord came with a piece of gear. As time went by, and I replaced some part, it was a step, or two, up over its predecessor.

Granted, if all someone does is goes to a store and buys $50K worth of gear and cables then maybe it does make sense to strip it down and experiment. Of course, they may as well do the same thing with their gear, and replace it with Radio Shack electronics and speakers.

 

[BruceD]

sounds like it...will be interesting to see what Steve thinks given that he's just invested in Masterbuilt...

Ah Yes yes--that will be the punchline to this whole thread!--we have observed with revered interest and "intrigue" at the comments here --including from our most competent and admired posters

Will await the punchline--when David visits Steve and swaps the RS/Ching Cheng cables out against the Masterbuilts

I'd pay to see/hear that!

( I have horse in this race --as I could make a buck or two disposing of my current seemingly overhyped/overpriced bunch of cables/Power cords/etc-wooo!)

BruceD

 

[treitz3]

Shoot, you wouldn't be the only one to make a pretty penny! LOL

Tom

 

[beaur]

Are these the cables?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CHING-CHENG...316298?hash=item2cb392ff4a:g:EOIAAOSwyQtVr~2a

Just google it, I know people have found them on eBay and from some online vendors too.

david

 

[ddk]

Ah Yes yes--that will be the punchline to this whole thread!--we have observed with revered interest and "intrigue" at the comments here --including from our most competent and admired posters

Will await the punchline--when David visits Steve and swaps the RS/Ching Cheng cables out against the Masterbuilts

I'd pay to see/hear that!

( I have horse in this race --as I could make a buck or two disposing of my current seemingly overhyped/overpriced bunch of cables/Power cords/etc-wooo!)

BruceD

Well, Ching Cheng did replace all his previous cords and matching AC boxes ! Haven't put them up against MB cords yet, $20k vs $20 should be interesting!

david

 

[ddk]

Are these the cables?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CHING-CHENG...316298?hash=item2cb392ff4a:g:EOIAAOSwyQtVr~2a

No, its a different model, might still be pretty good.

david

 

[RogerD]

My mono block amplifiers came with 20 amp PC's back in 1991...they were "black cords" and very well made. The manufacturer recommended that the supplied cords be used only. Well that was about the time that high end cables were catching on so I purchased 2 NBS masters which I still use today. The difference was noticeable as to clarity,but the thing that stood out was the size of the soundstage. Good PC's will have better shielding and termination back to ground. The original PC's were put in a drawer and they have stayed put since I changed over to the NBS. I really doubt that any black cord will equal Steve's MB PC's as the black cord will decrease transparency and resolution. I would guess that the dispersion of a large horn would mask most of the qualities of a good shielded high end PC. The science behind MB, Shunyata cords,and others that reduce EMI should be beneficial....we will see.

 

[amirm]

I really doubt that any black cord will equal Steve's MB PC's as the black cord will decrease transparency and resolution.

I have put forward $10,000 for anyone to demonstrate that. The offer still stands.

 

[BruceD]

Well, Ching Cheng did replace all his previous cords and matching AC boxes ! Haven't put them up against MB cords yet, $20k vs $20 should be interesting!

david

Excellent stuff David !--can't beat some good old Pudding eating to prove the point --- Hi Steve!--are you still with us??

BruceD

 

[RogerD]

I have put forward $10,000 for anyone to demonstrate that. The offer still stands.

I'm in Reno,Nevada c'mon down and you'll get educated!

 

[NorthStar]

I have put forward $10,000 for anyone to demonstrate that. The offer still stands.

If you can make that $1 million I might work on that. :b Ten grands that's kids stuff, small peanuts for little squirrel and bunny babies, honeybee bumble bees.

 

[BruceD]

My mono block amplifiers came with 20 amp PC's back in 1991...they were "black cords" and very well made.

I have a drawer full dating back to the 80's early 90s as well--freebies with the Purchases then--mostly Beldens--- maybe I have to dust/em off in anticipation

Top thread by the way--very interesting!

BruceD

 

[RogerD]

I have a drawer full dating back to the 80's early 90s as well--freebies with the Purchases then--mostly Beldens--- maybe I have to dust/em off in anticipation

Top thread by the way--very interesting!

BruceD

Yep...Belden,that's them. A good cord but not in the same league.

 

[Leif S]

I have put forward $10,000 for anyone to demonstrate that. The offer still stands.

You should put that money towards getting some better cables

 

[KeithR]

Hi

I am not with you on the first part of your post ...

Frantz - I think when people concentrate on black backgrounds, "silence", and all that, it oftentimes can be at the expense of instrument timbre. This is not 100% of the time of course and noise reduction is a goal in audio playback (I have 500 apartments in my complex that tax the grid for instance). But many of these items are filters and music can lose something as well.

 

[LL21]

Ah Yes yes--that will be the punchline to this whole thread!--we have observed with revered interest and "intrigue" at the comments here --including from our most competent and admired posters

Will await the punchline--when David visits Steve and swaps the RS/Ching Cheng cables out against the Masterbuilts

I'd pay to see/hear that!

( I have horse in this race --as I could make a buck or two disposing of my current seemingly overhyped/overpriced bunch of cables/Power cords/etc-wooo!)

BruceD

I have put forward $10,000 for anyone to demonstrate that. The offer still stands.

Yes, BruceD, and if $10K is the 'buy in' at that table for the players, even more fun!

That said, I find the stock CJ power cord that comes with the GAT to be EXCELLENT. The uplift in performance using the Sablon Audio GR or the PAD 25th Anniversary was solid to my ears...but at a huge price, huge. And there was NO uplift in performance with a few other power cables that were excellent in other parts of the system.

 

[LL21]

I will add that i believe DDK to have observed something i can partially relate to, given my experience with the CJ stock cord. Essentially, while at sometimes HUGE cost, i get what i consider to be 'better' performance from my power cables, i also note the uplift in performance is not equal in all areas...which means the presentation definitely IS different. It changes how the music gets presented. Whereas I 'know/believe' the original manufacturer designed the presentation with the original stock cord.

My personal experience using large-scale choral music was:

- PAD great overall presentation...can understand some words not all
- Sablon...can understand more words...
- Stock can not understand as many words as with the above two cords

Sablon while better in clarity and incredible across many areas, i believe i had 'voiced' my system a certain way, and thus on piano keys, the hammerstrike came out too light. I honestly believe if i had wanted to go back and re-tool system isolation, setup, and the Wilsons (resistors, movement of the upper modules)...i could have fought to win the benefits of Sablon and maintain that hammerstrike power...but that was way too much work and the PADs are truly excellent, particularly their 25th Ann. If i had to do it all over again, i might just try to do a wholesale Sablon loom.

Coming back to DDK, I do think there are many great stock cables out there...CJ is one of them. And that great stock cable presents the equipment the way the designer intended after a fair amount of work...(and if you've bought the equipment, the designer ought to be darned good in your opinion).

 

[treitz3]

Great, all we need is another outdated and ill informed Randi out there to fill folks with useless banter. *rolleyes*

Anything to draw out attention, I guess.

Tom