What is it about the bass, that it becomes so robust with after-market cords and conditioners?

[asiufy]

I also recommend to purge your system of all audiophile wires if you really want to know what's going on. Radioshack has some great inexpensive wires for you to use as a reference. I don't claim that they're best but there's absolutely nothing wrong with them. They're not colored and they don't do anything special so you can actually hear your system instead of your wires. This is what I recommended to all my friends & customers with ultra high end systems as a starting point, many are still using them.

Speaker cable,

https://www.radioshack.com/products/16-gauge-megacable-50-ft

Interconnects, they have them in many lengths

https://www.radioshack.com/products/6-stereo-audio-cable-with-rca

david

david,

Respectfully, how can a cable be "not colored", and "not do anything special"? Isn't the "not colored" the ideal we all strive for? So, if that's the case, they ARE doing something special!

So, your claim is that Radio Shack wire (and Ching Cheng) are the best because they're not colored at all, while every single other audiophile cable you've tested is colored somewhat... Is that it?


thanks,
alex

 

[RogerD]

Kingsrule, glad to see that you have an open mind, just a couple of things to listen for, best is a trio or quartet with voice;

- More natural dynamics, there should be different dimensions and volume levels between the instruments and voice and continue to change along with the music.

- Recordings have their own natural ambience and you should be able to hear differences among them.

- Dark, black, velvety, etc. don't exist in reality, it's a cable artifact.

- Soundstage dimensions should change with different recordings as do the size of images, a framed soundstage with images placed in same locations in soundstage on every recording is a cable coloration.

A telltale sign is when any or all of these cable artifacts are always there impressing you and competing with the beauty and subtleties of music. System artifacts shouldn't impress you! Unfortunately cables, power conditioners and other AC related boxes have an accumulative effect and even one will color everything. It's best to start over, unplug all conditioners, etc. and start with basic stock cords so you have a reference point, then introduce each item individually and listen for any of the above.

The cords I use are Ching Cheng brand, type PVC.PLUG EL-304, 14 AWG. I haven't tested the current version but I'm told by those who have the older versions they got from me sound better but these are still better than anything else they've tried.

http://www.chingcheng.com/ul-csa.html

I also recommend to purge your system of all audiophile wires if you really want to know what's going on. Radioshack has some great inexpensive wires for you to use as a reference. I don't claim that they're best but there's absolutely nothing wrong with them. They're not colored and they don't do anything special so you can actually hear your system instead of your wires. This is what I recommended to all my friends & customers with ultra high end systems as a starting point, many are still using them.

Speaker cable,

https://www.radioshack.com/products/16-gauge-megacable-50-ft

Interconnects, they have them in many lengths

https://www.radioshack.com/products/6-stereo-audio-cable-with-rca

david

In a noise free system the soundstage boundaries disappear for the most part,although the recording process does effect the reproduction. Since really well designed cables send magnetic interference back to ground and separate the audio signal from the magnetic interference. Cables should have a positive effect,unless their design does little to pass a purer audio signal. There are other ways to remove magnetic interference and if done to a high degree then cable design would be less meaningful in the faithful reproduction of the audio signal.

 

[thedudeabides]

As an aside, if one wishes to buy Radio Shack wire, they better do it in the near future.

RS is closing down another 200 stores and, I believe, has filed for bankruptcy.

But then, there's always K-Mart.

 

[ddk]

david,

Respectfully, how can a cable be "not colored", and "not do anything special"? Isn't the "not colored" the ideal we all strive for? So, if that's the case, they ARE doing something special!

So, your claim is that Radio Shack wire (and Ching Cheng) are the best because they're not colored at all, while every single other audiophile cable you've tested is colored somewhat... Is that it?


thanks,
alex

I never claimed that they're the best Alex only that they're very neutral and don't enhance the sound the way many high end wires do. I'm only recommending them as a starting point for people to have a baseline reference so they may effectively judge their other components. So many systems are wired up to the hilt, tweaked and enhanced to the max, it's near impossible to know what's doing what. IMO these particular RS wires & Ching Cheng cords are good enough for any system at any level and by all means if you like better go for it. But have a neutral reference as a starting point to know what you're doing.

david

Edit- Let me add that WTB members who tried Ching Cheng ended up preferring them over their very expensive audiophile power cords.

 

[NorthStar]

As an aside, if one wishes to buy Radio Shack wire, they better do it in the near future.

RS is closing down another 200 stores and, I believe, has filed for bankruptcy.

But then, there's always K-Mart.

In Canada we have the Radio Shack's equivalent, The Source: https://www.thesource.ca/

Look @ the exclusive selection of turntables: http://www.thesource.ca/en-ca/exclusive/c/exclusive

* Next month (April), all HMV stores across Canada are closing for good. For replacement it will be vinyls; yes that's right...music LPs, and turntables too.
Isn't it amazing! LPs are selling more than CDs and Blu-rays and DVDs. HMV is also bankrupt; they have outstanding debts for quite a while now...they're constantly losing money.
HMV stores used to be the most expensive to buy music and movies, then they tried to lower some of their prices, but many items remained super expensive...like 3D Blu-ray movies, Criterion Collection BR movies, 4K Blu-ray movies, new Blu-ray movie releases. They never did price match like other stores, not even with Amazon.

But for audio wire needs, AC power cords, power conditioners, speaker wires, etc., I wouldn't go to Walmart, or Costco, or other stores of that sort. Unless you had a divorce and your ex took everything from you, including your bank account. :b

 

[asiufy]

David,

That's where we disagree. Why do you judge these to be "neutral"? Because they're cheap? I never found them to be neutral. I've used cheap black cord extensively, sometimes against my will, and I know their effects well.

Matter of fact, I just hooked one up to our amp, instead of a proper cord. And guess what? The effect is just as you'd expect when you give the amp less/worse power. The imaging became a little more diffuse, and the instruments just had less "power", they projected less into the room. It's not just "bass", as the title of this thread implies, it's just more ENERGY in the music.

Perhaps because you're running a high-efficiency system there, you're OK with the less diffuse and less immediate presentation, as your horns and your system as a whole will already give you enough energy in its presentation. But to deny the effects of the little black cords on other systems, and calling them "neutral", is going too far, IMHO.

While I do agree some cords DO boost up the bass, some will do just the opposite, and as such, I agree with you they're not neutral either.


cheers,
alex

 

[KeithR]

I agree with ddk that most cables, conditioners, and tweaks in search of the all mighty black background actually just strip harmonics away.

The amount of wasted energy and $ on this stuff has gone loony. Just buy some decent copper cables and move on. The differences pale in importance compared with other gear.

 

[RogerD]

The aim is audio signal purity in high end reproduction. I think some think it's a mystery how that is accomplished. The main reason the audio signal is compromised is magnetic interference. All audio cables are shielded,some have a simple shield,others are double shielded and others are more complex. Maybe in some systems depending on the ground scheme of the components and system, a well constructed shielded cable will be enough. But the majority of systems with out the luck of a ground synergy would benefit from better designed cables. Tests have shown that shield induced cable noise(SICN) effects the audio signal performance on even commonly used microphone cable.

 

[Kingsrule]

Where can the CC EL304 pc's be purchased?

 

[FrantzM]

I agree with ddk that most cables, conditioners, and tweaks in search of the all mighty black background actually just strip harmonics away.

The amount of wasted energy and $ on this stuff has gone loony. Just buy some decent copper cables and move on. The differences pale in importance compared with other gear.

Hi

I am not with you on the first part of your post ...

just strip harmonics away

I agree entirely with the second though... My position for the past few years , one that regular listening tests have only reinforced...

 

[ddk]

Where can the CC EL304 pc's be purchased?

Just google it, I know people have found them on eBay and from some online vendors too.

david

 

[ddk]

Price has nothing to do with my recommendations they just happen to be cheap; not all black cords are created equal. Only one of the people using Ching Cheng has high efficiency horns, everyone else has Wilson, Kharma, Verity etc.. In fact the reason I use Ching Cheng is because I find them more open and dynamic than other cords.

david

David,

That's where we disagree. Why do you judge these to be "neutral"? Because they're cheap? I never found them to be neutral. I've used cheap black cord extensively, sometimes against my will, and I know their effects well.

Matter of fact, I just hooked one up to our amp, instead of a proper cord. And guess what? The effect is just as you'd expect when you give the amp less/worse power. The imaging became a little more diffuse, and the instruments just had less "power", they projected less into the room. It's not just "bass", as the title of this thread implies, it's just more ENERGY in the music.

Perhaps because you're running a high-efficiency system there, you're OK with the less diffuse and less immediate presentation, as your horns and your system as a whole will already give you enough energy in its presentation. But to deny the effects of the little black cords on other systems, and calling them "neutral", is going too far, IMHO.

While I do agree some cords DO boost up the bass, some will do just the opposite, and as such, I agree with you they're not neutral either.


cheers,
alex

 

[Kingsrule]

Already did......

 

[ddk]

Already did......

You can try their US sales office; http://www.linvoxcorp.com/product-category/power-cords/hospital-grade-plugs/

david

 

[asiufy]

Price has nothing to do with my recommendations they just happen to be cheap; not all black cords are created equal. Only one of the people using Ching Cheng has high efficiency horns, everyone else has Wilson, Kharma, Verity etc.. In fact the reason I use Ching Cheng is because I find them more open and dynamic than other cords.

david

Got it. Maybe *this* particular black cord won't rob the sound of its life and energy, like all the other black cords I've tried... I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and if I happen to come across one of those, I'll gladly listen...

 

[asiufy]

I agree with ddk that most cables, conditioners, and tweaks in search of the all mighty black background actually just strip harmonics away.

The amount of wasted energy and $ on this stuff has gone loony. Just buy some decent copper cables and move on. The differences pale in importance compared with other gear.

You're throwing the baby away with the bathwater. Just because there's a whole bunch of stuff out there that's just fancy tone controls, doesn't mean EVERYTHING is, and we should all use lampcord.

Same as amps and DACs and everything else in audio, you'll have the good ones and the bad ones, and a whole lot in between...

 

[ddk]

Got it. Maybe *this* particular black cord won't rob the sound of its life and energy, like all the other black cords I've tried... I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and if I happen to come across one of those, I'll gladly listen...

I'll stop by and bring a couple over the next time I visit Steve.

david

 

[asiufy]

Deal

 

[RogerD]

I'll stop by and bring a couple over the next time I visit Steve.

david

Now that will be interesting. Just for info,have you used these cords on systems with non horn speaker systems.

 

[LL21]

Now that will be interesting. Just for info,have you used these cords on systems with non horn speaker systems.

sounds like it...will be interesting to see what Steve thinks given that he's just invested in Masterbuilt...

...Let me add that WTB members who tried Ching Cheng ended up preferring them over their very expensive audiophile power cords.

Price has nothing to do with my recommendations they just happen to be cheap; not all black cords are created equal. Only one of the people using Ching Cheng has high efficiency horns, everyone else has Wilson, Kharma, Verity etc.. In fact the reason I use Ching Cheng is because I find them more open and dynamic than other cords.

david