Watch Tesla Unveil Its Pickup Truck In Under 6 Minutes

[ddk]

Sorry David, but it is the same basic attitude. Humans are effecting the climate. The changes will have profound effects on millions of peopLe. I know, you don’t believe it but it was not that long ago that people thought smoking was harmless and that second hand smoke was not an issue. I believe that there were magazine ads in the ‘50’s that extolled the health benefits of smoking. Given the potential consequences, why not err on the side of caution? At worst, you will get new tech and jobs and cleaner air and water to boot. A win win in my book.

I'm not against clean air and water and to the contrary I'm very much into preservation and conservation of natural resources but that's not what this is about. It's the politics of "climate change", the agenda and the people who put themselves in charge that we (my lot!) are against. I'll be first in line for green energy if it's real and brought about openly without forced legislature.

Edit- You should also be aware that the current green agenda might be cigarette campaign of the 50's and be cautious about what you're giving up and to whom because you'll never get it back!

david

 

[jeff1225]

I don't think that's true Jeff, but if they are they shouldn't be either.

david

Oil subsidies in the USA are $20 Billion a year, they really pale in comparison to clean power subsidies. I agree with you, there should be no subsidies in terms of investment or tax breaks to any corporations in the USA.

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...er-year-on-fossil-fuel-subsidies-abolish-them

 

[jeff1225]

The strange polarness is kinda irritating. EV's are just the new hot luxury item so everyone pretends like they are somehow lower impact than hybrids but they just aren't.

I remember seeing a statistic in the Economist that over 90% of the damage done to the environment by automobiles was during their construction. That's why the "Cash for Clunkers" program was such a stupid idea. Our throw away society does more damage to the environment that anything else we do.

Solution? Buy vintage or used audio product and original press records.

I'm now disengaging from this conversation mostly because that car is so damn ugly.

 

[KeithR]

Oil subsidies in the USA are $20 Billion a year, they really pale in comparison to clean power subsidies. I agree with you, there should be no subsidies in terms of investment or tax breaks to any corporations in the USA.

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...er-year-on-fossil-fuel-subsidies-abolish-them

This is really misleading as it doesn't frame what the subsidies are - the "subsidies" are mostly accounting treatment-related to depletion allowance similar to depreciation or R&D for normal companies. New well expense deduction is the other one - which I feel should be probably eliminated as its 100 years old and costs all of $1.5B/year. Also, the manufacturing deduction was eliminated in the tax reform bill which as you may have guessed, applied to all manufacturers not just oil & gas.

Direct to consumer EV tax credits and ZEV credits that Tesla receives that no other industry receives does are different in my mind. And I'm anti-subsidy.

 

[jeff1225]

This is really misleading as it doesn't frame what the subsidies are - the "subsidies" are mostly accounting treatment-related to depletion allowance similar to depreciation or R&D for normal companies. New well expense deduction is the other one - which I feel should be probably eliminated as its 100 years old and costs all of $1.5B/year. Also, the manufacturing deduction was eliminated in the tax reform bill which as you may have guessed, applied to all manufacturers not just oil & gas.

Direct to consumer EV tax credits and ZEV credits that Tesla receives that no other industry receives does are different in my mind. And I'm anti-subsidy.

Oil exploration, use of government land and government infrastructure are unique subsidies. I do agree that this report is skewed as it comes from an environmentalist agency. I'll find a more balanced one.

 

[NorthStar]

With today's reality how many really care?

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/The-US-Smashes-Another-Oil-Export-Record.html#

david

That's old news today...six weeks old is old news.

* To come back to that Tesla Cybertruck, no doubt it is not attractive (no matter how hard or funny some people try with convincing tactics of the opposite). But, Musk & team have three years to develop it further before hitting the general public market. I'm sure its design is part of that development/improvement.

As for everything else related to EV versus ICE, it's for that other thread somewhere else in the annals (archives) of WBF sections. ...Same for climate change, oil exploration, Greta, subsidies, business deals, how we move from point A to B, how we fly more efficiently ...

 

[Joe P]

 

[Empirical Audio]

Was there ever a time in this planet's history that there was no climate change?

It's not that we don't care we simply have very different beliefs about right and wrong and the future we want for our children from your lot.

David

This is like saying we have always had lots of wildfires in the US. The problem is that we have much bigger more intense wildfires now and it's because of Climate Change.

The rate of increase of the ocean's temperature and the rate of increase of the CO2 in the lower atmosphere has never been matched in 55 million years of earths history, probably longer. This is the period of time that scientists are able to measure this based on cores from the sea floor and cores of ice from the icecaps. This is a scientific fact. Things that took 1000-10,000 years to occur previously are happening in 100 years. This is also a scientific fact. There are no natural phenomena that can account for this rapid change. Only man's CO2 and Methane emissions.

Why don't you believe the facts? Is it the messenger? If so, go look for yourself. The data is readily available. There is simply no excuse for denying these facts.

 

[Empirical Audio]

Oil subsidies in the USA are $20 Billion a year, they really pale in comparison to clean power subsidies. I agree with you, there should be no subsidies in terms of investment or tax breaks to any corporations in the USA.

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...er-year-on-fossil-fuel-subsidies-abolish-them

According to studies done by the IMF, the total US oil and gas subsidies, government and military programs and other incentives amount to $650 Billion each year. I suspect that oil alone is at least half of that, probably more.

 

[djsina2]

This is like saying we have always had lots of wildfires in the US. The problem is that we have much bigger more intense wildfires now and it's because of Climate Change.

The rate of increase of the ocean's temperature and the rate of increase of the CO2 in the lower atmosphere has never been matched in 55 million years of earths history, probably longer. This is the period of time that scientists are able to measure this based on cores from the sea floor and cores of ice from the icecaps. This is a scientific fact. Things that took 1000-10,000 years to occur previously are happening in 100 years. This is also a scientific fact. There are no natural phenomena that can account for this rapid change. Only man's CO2 and Methane emissions.

Why don't you believe the facts? Is it the messenger? If so, go look for yourself. The data is readily available. There is simply no excuse for denying these facts.

Made up facts to fit a narrative. Everything changes in time. But you are right, when the messengers are celebrities and a paid shill teenager with mental retardation it doesn’t help the sales pitch.

 

[ddk]

This is like saying we have always had lots of wildfires in the US. The problem is that we have much bigger more intense wildfires now and it's because of Climate Change.

The rate of increase of the ocean's temperature and the rate of increase of the CO2 in the lower atmosphere has never been matched in 55 million years of earths history, probably longer. This is the period of time that scientists are able to measure this based on cores from the sea floor and cores of ice from the icecaps. This is a scientific fact. Things that took 1000-10,000 years to occur previously are happening in 100 years. This is also a scientific fact. There are no natural phenomena that can account for this rapid change. Only man's CO2 and Methane emissions.

Why don't you believe the facts? Is it the messenger? If so, go look for yourself. The data is readily available. There is simply no excuse for denying these facts.

I don't know where you get those facts from because where I look I don't see the alarming data that you mention but we know for sure that the earth has gone through several violent cataclysms in it's history and we survived it without the prophets you believe in! In all honesty even if the world came to an end in 12 years I'd rather it blew up than give the reigns of civilization to these people for 12 seconds!

Back to Musk's truck, do you believe we can save the world if we all bought one?

david

 

[djsina2]

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/tesla-sells-more-products-it-doesnt-yet-make-products-it-does

 

[ddk]

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/tesla-sells-more-products-it-doesnt-yet-make-products-it-does

Don't forget about this one !

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...n-in-flamethrowers-in-four-days-idUSKBN1FL544



david

 

[Empirical Audio]

I don't know where you get those facts from because where I look I don't see the alarming data that you mention

Start here:

https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

https://www.epa.gov/climate-indicators

https://www.un.org/en/sections/issues-depth/climate-change/

https://www.ametsoc.org/index.cfm/a...atements-of-the-ams-in-force/climate-change1/

https://www.globalchange.gov/agency/department-energy

 

[ddk]

Start here:

https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

https://www.epa.gov/climate-indicators

https://www.un.org/en/sections/issues-depth/climate-change/

https://www.ametsoc.org/index.cfm/a...atements-of-the-ams-in-force/climate-change1/

https://www.globalchange.gov/agency/department-energy

!

 

[NorthStar]

The topic is about a truck, a simple electric truck. ...Not a flame torch blower, and not by saying Greta is mentally retarded. ...Not about fires in California, Amazon, Australia, ...but a Tesla cybertruck. I like all those subjects and would love (many of us) resolve them. Climate change is a delicate subject because of the divisions it creates between the unsolvers and the time and money to invest.

But this is still a new truck thread that had just been revealed to the world, a truck in progress I should say. I'm not different than anyone here; I take @ heart our planet and its inhabitant's good health. I would love to find the cure of the cancer of all cancers. Maybe that truck could help?

If a truck can fix all world problems I'll order two tomorrow morning before breakfast.
Then we can use those trucks and drive up to manage our forest by thinning, digging water corridors, planting to stop eroding, etc.

 

[jeff1225]

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/tesla-sells-more-products-it-doesnt-yet-make-products-it-does

zerohedge is a bullshit source. It's been totally debunked by the Economist and Wall Street Journal. Don't use this source.

 

[djsina2]

zerohedge is a bullshit source. It's been totally debunked by the Economist and Wall Street Journal. Don't use this source.

Sorry, I don’t follow those fake news outlets.

 

[DaveC]

This is really misleading as it doesn't frame what the subsidies are - the "subsidies" are mostly accounting treatment-related to depletion allowance similar to depreciation or R&D for normal companies. New well expense deduction is the other one - which I feel should be probably eliminated as its 100 years old and costs all of $1.5B/year. Also, the manufacturing deduction was eliminated in the tax reform bill which as you may have guessed, applied to all manufacturers not just oil & gas.

Direct to consumer EV tax credits and ZEV credits that Tesla receives that no other industry receives does are different in my mind. And I'm anti-subsidy.

They are different in another way too... oil and gas is something all of us use for everything and benefit from, if not directly than indirectly, to bring us all the stuff we need and want, including our food. Like it or not, that's how it is right now.

EVS otoh, are mostly expensive luxury vehicles and getting tax breaks for their purchase benefits nobody but the owner of the vehicle, and promotes a tech that isn't quite ready to be mainstream.

 

[jeff1225]

Sorry, I don’t follow those fake news outlets.

you win WBF today with either the funniest or most asinine comment. Thank you for the entertainment.

 

[jeff1225]

They are different in another way too... oil and gas is something all of us use for everything and benefit from, if not directly than indirectly, to bring us all the stuff we need and want, including our food. Like it or not, that's how it is right now.

EVS otoh, are mostly expensive luxury vehicles and getting tax breaks for their purchase benefits nobody but the owner of the vehicle, and promotes a tech that isn't quite ready to be mainstream.

The trickledown Tesla 3 totally refutes this argument.