Unbalanced vs balanced interconnects

[213Cobra]

since I went fully balanced I noticed a big improvement in the sound quality.I would like to hear what other people on wbf think.is balanced better than the old standard rca single ended.

I find the bal/se question highly equipment and environment-dependent. Sometimes, SE just sounds better and more authentic when you think it shouldn't. On the other hand with digital, I have noticed that on DACs that have RCA, BNC and AES/EBU inputs for S/PDIF, the AES/EBU input nearly always sounds best of the three, and usually better than USB up to the AES input's limits of resolution.

But on the analog side, BAL doesn't always play as superior. However I have to say that in cases where BAL is sonically better than SE, differences in cable are very much reduced, or made moot, compared to SE of the same wire types.

Phil

 

[Addicted to hifi]

I find the bal/se question highly equipment and environment-dependent. Sometimes, SE just sounds better and more authentic when you think it shouldn't. On the other hand with digital, I have noticed that on DACs that have RCA, BNC and AES/EBU inputs for S/PDIF, the AES/EBU input nearly always sounds best of the three, and usually better than USB up to the AES input's limits of resolution.

But on the analog side, BAL doesn't always play as superior. However I have to say that in cases where BAL is sonically better than SE, differences in cable are very much reduced, or made moot, compared to SE of the same wire types.

Phil

Agree with you.mcintosh definitely sounds better with fully balanced cables.

 

[Addicted to hifi]

The noise floor was much lower when I went fully balanced,I really couldn’t believe it.the dynamics improved as well.

 

[thedudeabides]

I used single ended all my life with mcintosh pre and power but at last I listened to my dealer and mcintosh and went fully balanced.the difference was not small.I believe balanced is a much better way to connect.

Maybe, maybe not. Like all generalizations, this one is also wrong. Totally depends on your gear.

 

[Addicted to hifi]

Maybe, maybe not. Like all generalizations, this one is also wrong. Totally depends on your gear.

Yes you are coerect.

 

[Addicted to hifi]

even if you have a fully balanced symetrical unit and balanced cables.....as long as there is no output transformer, your connection will not be balanced.

Mcintosh has output transformers so my setup is truly fully balanced.

 

[DonH50]

even if you have a fully balanced symetrical unit and balanced cables.....as long as there is no output transformer, your connection will not be balanced.

You can implement differential circuits without transformers, with anything from a simple differential pair (transistors or tubes) to a discrete or integrated instrumentation amplifier.

 

[Daverich4]

Don’t know about better sounding but with balanced connections my setup, Audio Research Ref 6 and Ref 75 SE, definitely plays louder.

 

[Atmasphere]

Maybe, maybe not. Like all generalizations, this one is also wrong. Totally depends on your gear.

This is very true! If your balanced equipment does not support the balanced line standard (AES48) you'll notice all sorts of... irregularities.. cable interactions, noise and the like. Most high end audio balanced line equipment does not support the standard; hence the debate about balanced vs single-ended, because if you don't support the standard you don't get all the benefits or perhaps even none of them.

 

[thedudeabides]

Don’t know about better sounding but with balanced connections my setup, Audio Research Ref 6 and Ref 75 SE, definitely plays louder.

It should. By about 6db.

 

[Addicted to hifi]

It should. By about 6db.

Not really mine was lower in output.

 

[Atmasphere]

It should. By about 6db.

This is not correct. If you have a differential input (or even a transformer) the input voltage might be applied to the two inputs, resulting in X gain. If however the same input voltage is applied to one input and the other input is grounded, the differential amplifier or input transformer will produce the same output or maybe slightly less (certainly nowhere near 6dB) depending entirely on the Common Mode Rejection Ratio (CMRR) of the input.

The additional 6dB thing comes from balanced outputs that do not support the balanced standard. In this case, the 'balanced output' is merely two single-ended outputs that are simply out of phase. So if you hook one of those to a balanced input but only drive one side, you get a certain amount of gain; if you apply both outputs to that input, each driving its respective side then you get 6dB more.

So it you get that 6dB increase its a sign that the balanced system you're working with does not support the balanced standard- and you will find that it may or may not sound better than single-ended, the interconnect cables might play a huge role in the sound of the system and you might not be able to drive the interconnect cables very far; in a nutshell nearly all the advantages of going balanced are lost except perhaps bragging rights...

 

[thedudeabides]

Have never used balanced since I've had CJ preamps over the last 20 years plus. CJ has only single ended connections. Lots of confusing info (for me) on this topic.Thank you for the clarification and thanks to "Addicted" for his input.

 

[Addicted to hifi]

I still like the hear what people on wbf use.I’m finding mixed results to which is better.

 

[Atmasphere]

I still like the hear what people on wbf use.I’m finding mixed results to which is better.

Of course!

If the equipment does not support the standard for the application for which its designed its a simple fact that performance will be compromised. To me this seems a simple fact and its been a bit frustrating the last 30 years watching the high end audio community stumbling around in the dark.