Toward a Better WBF…

[Lee]

I wonder how this didn’t effect so many others industries that are not less depended on 3rd party parts and materiel such as vehicles, electronics and machinery.

i had argued with another’s speaker manufacturer regarding mater cost when he waved to me with that excuse, I just opened my smartphone and showed him that his speakers materiel prices where long came back to pre “corona” prices, and so was goods delivery.

On the last two Munich shows I participated in several manufacturers and distributors meetings, i herd in several times in those occasions manufacturers getting requests from distributers, mainly in the far East, for more expensive goods, as audio equipment had become luxury to show status of the owner.

Economies of scale.

 

[Al M.]

Now I am afraid to share my incoming new speaker in WBF. I am afraid to be accused of promoting the brand. I am afraid to be asked to justify the purchase as this speaker is brand new and not vintage. Sorry. This place is not a friendly place.

Congratulations on your new incoming speakers! I don't think being accused of promoting the brand would be a problem. However, I do also think this place has become very unfriendly, due to the dogmatics here.

You might have to explain to some people why it's not a horn speaker (if that is the case) and why you chose it even though you haven't heard all the horn speakers available coupled with the SETs deemed appropriate by them. Because certainly, those or other high-efficiency speakers are the better alternatives according to them -- if you only were enlightened enough to know. And the attainment of "natural sound" is of course only possible with certain system configurations as well.

I do think this has become a place where you have to justify things because you haven't heard everything out there that is deemed important by some. So yes, I share your fears to some extent.

People also might ask you that you have to post a video of your system, and if you don't, you allegedly are a coward who has something to hide. The fact notwithstanding that there are excellent rational and objective reasons not to post system videos. But that has been discussed ad nauseam, and no minds of dogmatic video fanatics will change.

A problem is also the fact that not everyone, including the dogmatics, has heard every brand they don't like under the best conditions (and some even make childish absolutist pronouncements based on shitty show conditions). But dogmatics won't concede that they don't know everything. They are too proud or too myopic to do that.

Given all the above, this did become a toxic place.

By the way, it has been observed that there is less posting of member's system threads than in the past. All the above might be reasons why. Things have become very judgmental here -- speaking for myself, there had been a time when I did not update my own system thread for a few months for that very reason, even though in hindsight my fears may not have been justified.

Maybe I have badly mischaracterized things here, but then everyone who thinks I did is free to correct me.

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

Tbh I personally think WBF would be a better forum without this thread……..

 

[adyc]

Congratulations on your new incoming speakers! I don't think being accused of promoting the brand would be a problem. However, I do also think this place has become very unfriendly, due to the dogmatics here.

You might have to explain to some people why it's not a horn speaker (if that is the case) and why you chose it even though you haven't heard all the horn speakers available coupled with the SETs deemed appropriate by them. Because certainly, those or other high-efficiency speakers are the better alternatives according to them -- if you only were enlightened enough to know. And the attainment of "natural sound" is of course only possible with certain system configurations as well.

I do think this has become a place where you have to justify things because you haven't heard everything out there that is deemed important by some. So yes, I share your fears to some extent.

People also might ask you that you have to post a video of your system, and if you don't, you allegedly are a coward who has something to hide. The fact notwithstanding that there are excellent rational and objective reasons not to post system videos. But that has been discussed ad nauseam, and no minds of dogmatic video fanatics will change.

A problem is also the fact that not everyone, including the dogmatics, has heard every brand they don't like under the best conditions (and some even make childish absolutist pronouncements based on shitty show conditions). But dogmatics won't concede that they don't know everything. They are too proud or too myopic to do that.

Given all the above, this did become a toxic place.

By the way, it has been observed that there is less posting of member's system threads than in the past. All the above might be reasons why. Things have become very judgmental here -- speaking for myself, there had been a time when I did not update my own system thread for a few months for that very reason, even though in hindsight my fears may not have been justified.

Maybe I have badly mischaracterized things here, but then everyone who thinks I did is free to correct me.

So very well said! I can’t believe I read something here that inviting a group of people listening to his system will be accused of attention seeking and brand promoting. This is not free speech or opinion. This is personal attack. What the world has become. The world will definitely become a better place if we are more tolerant and less bickering.

 

[bonzo75]

Al, thanks for pointing out, in this summary thread of WBF we didn’t have videos and anti video rant. Now with your rant that is checked off too

 

[andromedaaudio]

Definition of AGREE TO DISAGREE

to agree not to argue anymore about a difference of opinion… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

 

[marty]

Now I'm curious. What precisely do you know more about than me? Or do you you know more about everything?

This post reminded me of an ad that became a meme several years ago. It read:
FOR SALE: Complete Encyclopedia Brittanica for sale. No longer needed. Wife knows everything!

This place is not a friendly place.

In general, this is a friendly forum. But it is a tough crowd and can be contentious. The only thing that is really required is respect. But all opinions are welcome, even ones that might make you shudder. Nobody is putting a gun to anyone's head to participate.

 

[Al M.]

This post reminded me of an ad that became a meme several years ago. It read:
FOR SALE: Complete Encyclopedia Brittanica for sale. No longer needed. Wife knows everything!

LOL

 

[andromedaaudio]

Now I am afraid to share my incoming new speaker in WBF.

Understandable.
May be its wise to do a soft introduction

 

[Al M.]

Understandable.
May be its wise to do a soft introduction

View attachment 114849

ROFL!

 

[tima]

This post evidences how you continue to make the mistake of substituting your personal subjective preferences for objective fact.

I marvel at your adjectival puffery.

Subjective preferences
Objective facts

 

[Joe Whip]

I thought this thread jumped the shark a few pages ago. But, like always, I was wrong.

 

[maxima95]

I marvel at your adjectival puffery.

Subjective preferences
Objective facts

You misuse the word puffery. If you wish to nitpick, redundancy may be more in order.

 

[tima]

You misuse the word puffery. If you wish to nitpick, redundancy may be more in order.

Nah. I said exactly what I meant to say.

 

[PeterA]

So it is mere coincidence that each of the components you cited are components sold by Vintage Audio Specialties?

Of course it is not a coincidence. Where else can you hear this gear. Get serious. This is all personal between you. The Western Electric speakers are not sold by David. He does not even have them, and I have never heard them, but we have all read the reports.. The Neuman is not sold by him. I tried to buy one. The Bionors are not either. What are you talking about? This is where I heard this gear, nowhere else. That is the coincidence. David does not sell these things. But he has them. Have you ever heard a cartridge you prefer more than the Neuman Ron? Or a turntable better than David's. If so, tell us why so that we can actually discuss audio, sound, and something of substance.

Why not name the gear you like most and tell us it is better than any of that stuff I just listed. If you do like it more, tell us why, and we can have a discussion about gear and reasons for our opinions instead of talking about a guy who is no longer here.

A week ago after I had not logged in for about ten days, you asked me if I was boycotting WBF. I asked you what you meant by that word which is an odd way to phrase it. I told you I was busy doing other things and was taking a break for a while, simple as that. Posting in this thread was a mistake. It leads nowhere. The discussion is an argument with no substance.

 

[PYP]

I thought this thread jumped the shark a few pages ago. But, like always, I was wrong.

Agreed. Yet I keep reading. I need an intervention!

 

[XV-1]

Of course it is not a coincidence. Where else can you hear this gear. Get serious. This is all personal between you. The Western Electric speakers are not sold by David. He does not even have them, and I have never heard them, but we have all read the reports.. The Neuman is not sold by him. I tried to buy one. The Bionors are not either. What are you talking about? This is where I heard this gear, nowhere else. That is the coincidence. David does not sell these things. But he has them. Have you ever heard a cartridge you prefer more than the Neuman Ron? Or a turntable better than David's. If so, tell us why so that we can actually discuss audio, sound, and something of substance.

Why not name the gear you like most and tell us it is better than any of that stuff I just listed. If you do like it more, tell us why, and we can have a discussion about gear and reasons for our opinions instead of talking about a guy who is no longer here.

A week ago after I had not logged in for about ten days, you asked me if I was boycotting WBF. I asked you what you meant by that word which is an odd way to phrase it. I told you I was busy doing other things and was taking a break for a while, simple as that. Posting in this thread was a mistake. It leads nowhere. The discussion is an argument with no substance.

Watch out Peter, Ron may start calling you intellectually dishonest if you are not a dealer with an opinion.

 

[Amir]

Just out of curiosity why do you think not everybody who visits David purchases a complete Vintage Audio Specialties curated system? Are we all incorrect? Does none of us understand natural sound? Does none of us know what we hear in the concert hall?

You tell us -- of all audiophiles alive today who have heard Western Electric horns or Bionors and who think they are the best speakers they have ever heard, what fraction do they represent out of of all of the audiophiles alive today who have heard both Western Electric horns or Bionors and contemporary loudspeakers? What is that fraction?

I think you are simply projecting your personal preferences here, and the preferences of some of your friends.

Ron
let's go out of discussing about Peter opinions and I would like to speak about "audiophiles learning process" .

I have spend more than 20,000 hours over 20 years in audio hobby and finally I think "Audio" is not a simple game so as I said before I am not an Expert in this hobby.
what I think is there is a "learning Process" about "better sound" and "the relation of better sound to our music listening experience". not all audiophiles are equal and every audiophile should try to upgrade his knowledge.
I do not speak about more listening experience because we have many audio reviewers who are not expert in audio. it means listening to many many audio systems in different condition is the necessary/prerequisite but not enough sufficient for learning process.
most audio results are not enough good and it means most audiophiles are repeating mistakes and changing their hardware every 6 month. these audiophiles need to learn in a right way and experts like Jim Smith can help.

there are some audiophiles who prefer high power high feedback solidstate amplifiers to a low power single ended tube amplifier and it means those are at the beginning of the audio road and it takes time to learn about good sound.

 

[bonzo75]

I thought this thread jumped the shark a few pages ago. But, like always, I was wrong.

you can see here from minute 3 of the car crash, later there is a scene where the driver thinks the thread jumped the shark, and then it starts again. Finally the OP who started looks back and thinks the others are bad drivers.

 

[Al M.]

there are some audiophiles who prefer high power high feedback solidstate amplifiers to a low power single ended tube amplifier and it means those are at the beginning of the audio road and it takes time to learn about good sound.

This is a typical example of dogmatic absolutist patronizing that I was talking about in post #302 on this thread page above. The opinions of the SET/horn/other efficient speaker lovers are the best, and everyone else still needs to "learn about good sound" because they are "at the beginning of the audio road". *)

Really?

Your opinion, born from personal preference, is just one opinion among others, not the enlightened revelation of a prophet descending from the mountain.

Deal with it.


PS: I personally don't use a high power solid state amp, but some of them sound great.

______________

*) fortunately there are also undogmatic SET/horn lovers on WBF, but those seem to be in a minority