The future of Krell

[Mike Lavigne]

So Mike, I just read your above post; does the sensitivity of a speaker have any consideration?
...And its average impedance too.

numbers on impedence and sensitivity are not meaningless, but don't substitute for hearing a speaker with a known modestly powered amplifier. so while typically i look for above 90db @ efficient, and above 4 ohms nominal impedence.....numbers can be misleading and can be manipulated.

i guess i'm a believer in the 'first watt' is most important viewpoint. amps need headroom for that first watt to be 'wonderful' and proper design for that first watt to be refined and natural, and speakers have to be somewhat efficient to allow that first watt to communicate the whole picture.

all that said; i've had many 'special' moments with high power amps and low efficiency speakers....just never a long term love affair. we all have our personal perspectives.

 

[mep]

Micro-I will take your word for it. The picture makes the bezel look like it's made of plastic and it just doesn't look impressive. This must be a classic example of "pictures don't do it justice."

 

[microstrip]

Mike-I don't buy the old wife's tale that tubes sound 2x as powerful as a SS amp. If you need 100-200 watts of SS power, I think you need the same tube power. My speakers are over 90dB efficient supposedly and they do have a built in 14" sub with its own 1800 watt amp. They didn't come to life (primarily in the bass) until I powered them with 250 watts of SS power. 100 watts of tube power either through a Jadis Defy 7 MKII or an ARC VT-100 MKII or an ARC VS-115 didn't cut it.

250 watts of SS power or 250 watts of Krell power? IMHO it is not the same ...

 

[mep]

Well Micro-You know I have the KSA-250 that has been back to the factory to be updated. Most SS 250 watt per channel amps (into 8 ohms) couldn't dream of putting out the power that the KSA-250 can into lower impedance loads. And none of that would matter if it didn't sound really good. I still think this is a special amp.

 

[NorthStar]

numbers on impedence and sensitivity are not meaningless, but don't substitute for hearing a speaker with a known modestly powered amplifier. so while typically i look for above 90db @ efficient, and above 4 ohms nominal impedence.....numbers can be misleading and can be manipulated.

i guess i'm a believer in the 'first watt' is most important viewpoint. amps need headroom for that first watt to be 'wonderful' and proper design for that first watt to be refined and natural, and speakers have to be somewhat efficient to allow that first watt to communicate the whole picture.

all that said; i've had many 'special' moments with high power amps and low efficiency speakers....just never a long term love affair. we all have our personal perspectives.

Well, your perspective is certainly interesting. I'm with you on that first watt; I just didn't realize that sensitivity, and impedance can have that much of a correlation with it. ...In particular the sensitivity.

* I'll have to do more research than what I already know on this, but I'm glad I asked the question and that you gave me your 'perspective' on it.
Today is a good day to expand my audio horizons, like any other day. :b

Btw, I never owned speakers of higher sensitivity and higher impedance; always lower sensitivity (or average; 86dB), and average (nominal) impedance (4 Ohms). ...You just aroused my interest now.

__________

Oh, I know that you like to see pictures of the gear, the room, and all that jazz, but you won't. :b
You make better judgement knowing the gear and the room, of the music listener, and his choice of music too, and the music mediums; but you just can't put yourself into the 'phase' of another music lover without penetration of his own emotional music stance.

...Perhaps for another future thread.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Mike-I don't buy the old wife's tale that tubes sound 2x as powerful as a SS amp. If you need 100-200 watts of SS power, I think you need the same tube power. My speakers are over 90dB efficient supposedly and they do have a built in 14" sub with its own 1800 watt amp. They didn't come to life (primarily in the bass) until I powered them with 250 watts of SS power. 100 watts of tube power either through a Jadis Defy 7 MKII or an ARC VT-100 MKII or an ARC VS-115 didn't cut it.

i generally agree with what you are saying; but i've heard a number of 30-50 watt tube amplifiers on fairly efficient speakers that sounded spectacular....and i could live out my days with them. OTOH 30-50 tube watts won't cut it on many 90db efficient speakers. i owned Kharma Exquisite Reference 1D speakers which were 90db efficient, 5 ohm nominal. they sounded suberb on 75 watt Tenor OTL's (although they did detonate from time to time) and 18 watt Lamm ML2's. the Lamm's controlled the bass better than the Tenors (i preferred the Tenors overall). at that time i preferred those matches to other more powerful alternatives. but some other marginally less efficient Kharma's back then did not work well with those amps. so it's a fine line what is modestly powered amplifier friendly and you have to listen.

 

[MCLSOUND]

I DIY my own speakers nowadays as I have given up on lining dealers and greedy manufactures pockets.I use Scanspeak highs/ATC mids/Volt mid-bass/Audio Technology custom sandwich cone 15's(currently being built.
I believe if you have 2-400w woofers in a 4ohm load then I want at least 1600w at 4ohms to be fully and utterly controlled and for bass/midbass,the 600 Krells do just that.The ATC mids on the other hand are like a very picky woman who is a master in the bedroom....she can be annoying but she makes you feel great!!!!
The donnot like alot of SS amps but the Classe Omega give my topend a grip without that solid sssssstate shrill....""Just Love it""

I agree with Mike on a few notions and always ejoy his experiences as they are just a dreamland to me,BUT..I do build my speakers ""BIG n POWERFULL"" and evrything else has to work around them(even my wife-LOL...not saying she always puts up without a few choice word like...."""REALLY!!!"""

Krells are really a AMP & a Half in one box because the will do alot in a room...I know there is more to watts but I do my own true tests and as I said...

"I can find the limit with alot of amps with my 7' speakers but big Krells will find the limit of my speakers""
So when a amp measures 110-115db at 14 feet,that is power.!
Dallas,you may or may not love the 600e(as all peoples flavours are different) but one thing for sure is you will say that they filled your room and that alone is a big part of 'some' audiophiles experience.

Hey some of you guys have the 2012 Porche or Mercedes Rodster and never go past 100MPH,,,just show off the car...while some of us have the 1969 Dodge Charger with the 440 six-pack and love to push it to 150MPH...at least once in a while.
Listen and love the music guys.

 

[dallasjustice]

Krell 600e monoblocks in the first trimester:

 

[dallasjustice]

Well, Krell is a little behind in production. I previously debated between the 900e and 600e. At this point, I've changed my mind, no more 600e.

I am going for the 900e. I am told the current production time is the same either way. Why not? I will only have my hearing once.

 

[mep]

Well, Krell is a little behind in production. I previously debated between the 900e and 600e. At this point, I've changed my mind, no more 600e.

I am going for the 900e. I am told the current production time is the same either way. Why not? I will only have my hearing once.

And Krell amps can help you blow it out.

 

[dallasjustice]

 

[XV-1]

Well, Krell is a little behind in production. I previously debated between the 900e and 600e. At this point, I've changed my mind, no more 600e.

I am going for the 900e. I am told the current production time is the same either way. Why not? I will only have my hearing once.

Now, that is the right attitude. To the max if you can afford it.

They will sound wonderful.

 

[dallasjustice]

I am listening to my dealer's 108 right now on my YGs and it sounds awesome! Of course, its in low impedance mode so I can't get huge dynamics without hearing distortion. I am getting the krells next week, so im just having some fun with 108 since the Soulution 710 is all boxed up. I would say that I don't remember the cth8550 sounding this great on the Anat iii. Of course, my room was less resolving than it is now. If the 108 had more power and a little better low frequency control, it I would kick the **** out of the Soulution. With simpler music played at moderate levels, the 108 is better than the 710 in every way except bass.

Yes, I guess I'm not experienced enough
In my opinion, one should ALWAYS build a system around the pieces that are unique, and that provide the result intended.
Your rule is, IMO, useless. But again, as I said, I guess I'm just not experienced enough. Or maybe I just know what I like, and I found it.

Another person, local here, also attempted to hook up the YG to his 108. We brought the switch to 4 ohms. It didn't blew up immediately, but it eventually blew a fuse as well, as he listens loud. Again, this is the only speaker that has this effect on the 108, AFAIK. Even the Sashas, which are tough loads, will not do this.


alexandre

 

[asiufy]

Great, good to hear that
I agree with you, but my take is the opposite : "if the Anat was an easier speaker to drive, without dipping into such low impedances..."
You should hear what that little 108 can do with a Q7... Puts the big Soulutions to shame, including bass.

I've had a smaller Krell (402e) side-by-side with my 108, and it did pretty well. Monster bass, of course, but lacks a lot of the naturalness I like in the 108, and that's so particular to it.

Have you thought about ending the search once and for all with a darTZeel 458?

alexandre

 

[dallasjustice]

Great, good to hear that
I agree with you, but my take is the opposite : "if the Anat was an easier speaker to drive, without dipping into such low impedances..."
You should hear what that little 108 can do with a Q7... Puts the big Soulutions to shame, including bass.

Have you thought about ending the search once and for all with a darTZeel 458?

alexandre

Uh yes. Jonathan reminds about it every time I talk to him, which is once a week. :-O

 

[asiufy]

Hahahaha!
The local importer does the same thing with me, calls me every once in a while tempting me with a pair of 458... Damn, why does it have to be so expensive?!


alexandre

 

[dallasjustice]

I got my dealers silver demo pair for a few weeks until the black 900e come in. His pair were new, so I am breaking them in. The bass and control are totally never heard before. I am surprised how cool they run.

I thought the 710 had command of my speakers. I really had no idea what was possible!

 

[RBFC]

Excellent! I'm very happy with my lowly EV403, so I can only imagine the performance of the big brother!

Lee

 

[Elberoth]

Interesting. I do not see much love for Krell on the forums anymore. Probably there are other brands which are considered more 'cool' nowadays.

I'm looking forward to read your impressions.

 

[dallasjustice]

Thanks Lee for your prior help with Krell. I'm glad I stuck with it.

Elberoth, I know what you are talking about. I can't tell you how many people tried to discourage me from trading the Soulution 710 in for the Krell 900e. The only common thread among the Krell haters is that they've never heard the newest Krell amps or they think there buddy Dan D'agostino got screwed, or something like that. I don't care about the noise. Krell isn't as aggressive as their competitors in currying favorable reviews from the magazines, which I consider a positive sign.

I heard the Krell gear on YG speakers and thought it a great match. That was almost a year ago. I am really happy things worked out.