TAS review Berning 211/845 amplifier

[microstrip]

Ron, after you get your speakers, you should compare your VTL amps to Vitus, Dartzeel, and Berning Quad Zs. This is especially for your tastes in midrange. If you still prefer the VTLs, you can then go back to auditioning VACs, but a lot of tube lovers have moved to these. And are moving to CH Precision - so add that to your audition list.

Why not the D'Agostino's?

 

[bonzo75]

Why not the D'Agostino's?

Well I like those too. But Ron is not going anywhere near a guy who was known for Krell

He has recently heard the Vitus next to Kondo Kagura at Rhapsodys.

Also his amps will be more focused on midrange. I have heard the D'ags only on X2S2s and they remain a favorite because of that performance.

 

[KeithR]

that blow up thing....there is that.

they also put out a ton of heat like most OTLs. I almost bought a friend's pair back in 03

 

[Ron Resnick]

Ron, after you get your speakers, you should compare your VTL amps to Vitus, Dartzeel, and Berning Quad Zs. This is especially for your tastes in midrange. If you still prefer the VTLs, you can then go back to auditioning VACs, but a lot of tube lovers have moved to these. And are moving to CH Precision - so add that to your audition list.

Yes, I should.

But, instead, I probably will compare the VTLs to Berning 211/845s, Berning Quadratures and NAT Magma New SEs. The Atma-Sphere MA-2 is intriguing, too, but I am leary of something that does not offer any tube "warmth" at all.

I would like to add your, and Mike L's, beloved Tenor 75w OTLs to that list, but if I blow up a Pendragon ribbon tower with some flakey tube amp Flemming will be very upset with me.

In theory I like the transformerless transparency of an OTL, but I do subscribe to the high headroom philosophy. I think Berning Quadratures versus NAT Magma New SE versus Atma-Sphere MA-2 or MA-3 would be a fascinating comparison.

 

[bonzo75]

Yes, I should. But, instead, I probably will compare the VTLs to Berning 211/845s, Berning Quadratures and NAT Magma New SE.

I would like to add your, and Mike L's, beloved Tenor 75w OTLs to that list, but if I blow up a Pendragon ribbon tower with some flakey tube amp Flemming will be very upset with me.

Vitus Darts and Berning Quads will be easy to audition. In California. You have to get a cross section of higher powered SS amps in to test your H0 - fine if you are right.

 

[KeithR]

Yes, I should. But, instead, I probably will compare the VTLs to Berning 211/845s, Berning Quadratures and NAT Magma New SEs.

I would like to add your, and Mike L's, beloved Tenor 75w OTLs to that list, but if I blow up a Pendragon ribbon tower with some flakey tube amp Flemming will be very upset with me.

Since I'm local, you can borrow my CTH-8550 anytime Ron - would be fun

 

[Ron Resnick]

Yes, Keith, we will have to do that!

Thank you.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Vitus Darts and Berning Quads will be easy to audition. In California. You have to get a cross section of higher powered SS amps in to test your H0 - fine if you are right.

I do, in fact, have to check out one or more high-power, solid-state alternatives. I believe Dato' Danon Han uses the biggest Vitus mono amps on his Pendragons.

 

[bonzo75]

I do, in fact, have to check out one or more high-power, solid-state alternatives. I believe Dato' Danon Han uses the biggest Vitus mono amps on his Pendragons.

And he has already heard NATs

 

[Audiocrack]

Ron, after you get your speakers, you should compare your VTL amps to Vitus, Dartzeel, and Berning Quad Zs. This is especially for your tastes in midrange. If you still prefer the VTLs, you can then go back to auditioning VACs, but a lot of tube lovers have moved to these. And are moving to CH Precision - so add that to your audition list.

What about the Kondo Kagura power amps you both listened to? It is only 50 (se) watts but I experienced in Paris how - in combination with its partner the Kondo g-1000 preamp - incredible powerful they are with low efficiency loudspeakers (83-84 db). It was the most powerful Kondo combo I have ever experienced and with good nos tubes the Kagura amps are much better than the review of Myles in PF (Myles only listened to the stock Kondo tubes like you probably did) implies.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Dear audiocrack,

I appreciate the suggestion. I liked the Kaguras very much!

1) I personally could not justify spending that much money for 50w SET when other SETs (Absolare, NAT) are available for a fraction of the price, and

2) The Pendragons are only 89dB efficiency, and I just cannot imagine driving 83 or 84dB speakers with 50w. There has to be some dynamic compression going on, I would suspect. I do believe in the high headroom concept, but that is less important for the simple vocals and acoustic accompaniment I listen to mostly.

 

[Audiocrack]

Dear audiocrack,

I liked the Kagura very much, but

1) I personally could never spend that much money for 50w when other SETs (Absolare, NAT) are available for a fraction of the price, and

2) The Pendragons are only 89dB efficiency.

Of course that is up to you, Ron. In my view it not only the amount of watts that really matter but in particular the quality of those watts.

 

[bonzo75]

What about the Kondo Kagura power amps you both listened to? It is only 50 (se) watts but I experienced in Paris how - in combination with its partner the Kondo g-1000 preamp - incredible powerful they are with low efficiency loudspeakers (83-84 db). It was the most powerful Kondo combo I have ever experienced and with good nos tubes the Kagura amps are much better than the review of Myles in PF (Myles only listened to the stock Kondo tubes like you probably did) implies.

Hi AC, on the Magico S5, I preferred the Vitus more. Another user, cmarin, had the Kagura on his Magico Q7, and also tried the Berning 211/845, but he needs more power and is getting the VAC 450 statements. I do agree tubes could make a difference.

 

[Audiocrack]

Hi AC, on the Magico S5, I preferred the Vitus more. Another user, cmarin, had the Kagura on his Magico Q7, and also tried the Berning 211/845, but he needs more power and is getting the VAC 450 statements. I do agree tubes could make a difference.

Interesting, Ked. Are you saying that the Kagura could not drive the Q7 in a satisfactory way?

I was astounded by the way the Kagura's drove very inefficient loudspeakers in a large room in Paris.

Apart from power, please keep the following in mind: now that you have probably heard the Kagura's only with their stock supplied tubes, you will be in for a big surprise once you start playing then with high quality nos valves.

 

[bonzo75]

Interesting, Ked. Are you saying that the Kagura could not drive the Q7 in a satisfactory way?

I was astounded by the way the Kagura's drove very inefficient loudspeakers in a large room in Paris.

Apart from power, please keep the following in mind: now that you have probably heard the Kagura's only with their stock supplied tubes, you will be in for a big surprise once you start playing then with high quality nos valves.

As a lampizated guy I am always open to tube rolling improvements (you should see what happens when you take your Elrogs off )

I am not saying they could not drive it - I just felt more ease on each note, and full orchestral had more flow and body, with the Vitus. How much of this was an amp characteristic, how much of it was a speaker match, I cannot say. Cmarin definitely thinks the Kagura have less power to drive his Q7 and he has lived with them longer. You can PM him offline. Don't know if he is active here but he is on audioshark. Btw, the only SET amps I have liked have been on a couple of DIY horns, and on theatre horns like WE. So I am not a SET fan except on very high sensitive speakers. Maybe on things like Wilsons which are midway, the right tube rolls on SETs could get them to sing, but otherwise with the money I would go with Dagostinos. In fact when SETs are matched incorrectly I find less tone (supposed to be their strong point).

 

[JackD201]

Hi Ron

I would add Kronzilla DX2s to your list of candidates. 100wpc parallel SE and only takes 1V to get them to full output. Lovely midrange. If you're staying with VTL and want the headroom the Siggie 2s are great in different ways in Triode and Tetrode mode. I like Triode, Jim likes Tetrode. We do agree that they are at their best with yummy NOS AT7s and BH7s in front of the bank of power tubes. Our fave combo are Tele AT7s with RCA BH7s. Fortunately these tube types are relatively affordable.

PS - How are my apostrophes?

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Dear audiocrack,

I appreciate the suggestion. I liked the Kaguras very much!

1) I personally could not justify spending that much money for 50w SET when other SETs (Absolare, NAT) are available for a fraction of the price, and

2) The Pendragons are only 89dB efficiency, and I just cannot imagine driving 83 or 84dB speakers with 50w. There has to be some dynamic compression going out, I would suspect. I do beleive in the high headroom concept, but that is less important for the simple vocals and acoustic accompaniment I listen to mostly.

3) However, I would be curious to try 50w SET and just hear what happens.

ok, i'll say it since no one else is saying it.

buy a speaker that works with the room you have and the amps you like. period.

if your speaker anticipated choice is not compatible, then consider alternatives.

once you have new 4 tower monsters, your time for choice has sailed.

50 watts is a square peg, 89db is a round hole. you don't buy uber speakers to under power them. ease and authority is half the joy of speakers like that.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I agree, Mike.

That is why I would really consider only high power alternatives to VTL 350w triode.

And I am certain that the VTLs will sound great to me. I might not even bother to compare anything else at all. But it is fun to research and theorize and compare.

 

[bonzo75]

ok, i'll say it since no one else is saying it.

buy a speaker that works with the room you have and the amps you like. period.

if your speaker anticipated choice is not compatible, then consider alternatives.

once you have new 4 tower monsters, your time for choice has sailed.

50 watts is a square peg, 89db is a round hole. you don't buy uber speakers to under power them. ease and authority is half the joy of speakers like that.

I have been saying this for a while. Flea watting needs to stop unless you have horns, and also having big speakers in average rooms

 

[spiritofmusic]

Ron, by hook or by crook you need to hear the NAT Magma NEWs w yr speakers
I was speaking to Peter the other day, he's heard them, and they stopped him in his tracks
They're conservatively rated at 170W, but sound much louder
Peter tells me they have unique grip but the tone of subtlety of the most textured and delicate SETs