Ultra products are isolators, not dampers.[/I]
Hi, AllVinyl. Sorry if my comments about your product seemed negative. I have no way of seeing what's going on internally so I was simply providing my perspective by what I could observe from pictures of the external.
I could have sworn the other night I saw on the Stillpoints website you claimed these were damping products but on another visit, I see now the claim, "Stillpoints products are TRUE ISOLATION products, NOT dampening products. Our products afford no pathway of vibration from the product to the shelf, meaning better sound all around."
BTW, there is a little typo you may want to fix as it should read damping, not dampening.
In any event and IMO, regardless of words or claims, Stillpoints products follow the resonant energy transfer methodology, not an isolation-based methodology for at least the following reasons:
Since the entire universal and everything in it consists of one form of vibration or another, isolating an object from all sources of vibration is contrary to the laws of physics, though obviously many highly intelligent people spend entire lifetimes trying. Even in a vacuum chamber an object must be levitating to completely isolate from ALL sources of vibration. Moreover, if/when one successfully isolates an object from one source of vibration, it goes without saying that other sources of vibration captured at the object remain trapped and must release their energy within.
For example. In audio we have 3 primary sources of vibration, floor-borne, air-borne, and internally-generated, e.g. power supplies, motors, speaker drivers, etc. If I placed my amp in a box of sand, I have just severed any potential for floor-borne vibrations to enter the amp's chassis. But at the exact same moment in time, I've just trapped all air-borne and internally-generated vibrations within the amp so that they must fully dissipate within.
But I think I can prove Stillpoint products follow the coupling methodology rather than isolation based on your words alone. You said it can take weeks for Stillpoints to fully settle.
If I took a pair of scissors to cut my lamp cord, instantly the light bulb ceases to function. That act is a form of isolation as I'm severing an electrical conduit so that energy ceases to travel its normal path to the light bulb, and the effects of severing are always instantaneous. IOW, I don't have to wait weeks for the unwanted energy to stop traveling. Going back to the amp placed in a sandbox, again that act of preventing energy from rising up from the floor into the amp's chassis again is instantaneous and I do not have to wait for weeks to pass for that energy path to fully severe. Moreover, if Stillpoint products were true isolation-based products, there should be no need whatsoever for hard / rigid materials like ceramic or steel as those are preferred materials for use as mechanical conduits to allow mechanical energy to travel. Unless of course such materials were used solely for aesthetic purposes.
I suppose I should ask, if indeed Stillpoints products were truly isolating unwanted energies as they claim, could I not more easily and inexpensively and more immediately accomplish this feat by using sand, rubber, Sorbathane, air-filled bladders, bungee cords hanging from the ceiling, etc, or even just using rubber footers that come standard with so many products? Seriously, if isolation was a legitimate vibration controlling methodology, how difficult can it be to isolate something from a single source i.e. floor-borne vibrations?
But the real question is, if one fully isolated floor-borne vibrations from entering a component or speaker, what happens to the continuous bombardment of air-borne and internally-generated vibrations captured at and in the component that are now trapped within and must now fully dissipate and release its energy within?
Ultra products' technology pockets are loaded by the weight of the component. When loaded, there is no movement of or in the Ultra product. Proper loading is accomplished by using the appropriate Ultra for the specific application.[/I]
To the naked eye, you are probably correct, but at a microscopic level, I suspect minor movement, unless the product is tightly fastened or welded. Especially for an object vibrating so violently such as a speaker producing music at 105db.
Actually, it can, in some applications, take weeks for Ultras to fully settle.[/I]
I agree. But as per my comments above, that's because there is a mechanical settling in period for the Stillpoints products which always comes with resonant energy transfer (aka coupling) products but which never occurs with a product attempting to isolate (aka decoupling). Again, because truly isolating an object from a single source of energy is always an instantaneous act.
Could it be that the Ultra products work very well in many applications, as validated by testimony from reviewers and users?[/I]
Yes, provided we agree that your use of the term "works very well" is a relative term used by some-to-many who have little understanding or experience with various vibration controlling products or methodologies.
As with most anything, the end result manifests itself as a consequence of many factors. Most audiophiles use their ears as the final arbiter of whether or not a change makes an improvement. [/I]
I see nothing wrong with your statement of using one's ears as the final arbiter. After all, we're talking audio performance here. But there's a host of audiophiles with a passion for scientific proof around here who apparently would take great issue with that statement.
Anyone may adopt any position they wish with respect to a particular design. If a negative position is chosen based solely on design prejudices, they will miss listening to a lot of great sounding components.[/I]
Agreed. However, when talking performance, often times there is a rhyme or reason for a given design and in some instances such as here, design (and materials) means absolutely everything. Nevertheless, there are vibration-controlling designs, executions, and methodologies that provide even far greater levels of musicality.
One last thought is from a post I made earlier today in this thread:
"Yes, let's keep our minds/ears open and experiment![/I]
Couldn't agree more. But I find very few willing to do so. Especially in such conventional wisdom type matters such as the concept and theory of isolation which has been around what seems like forever.
Trying the product and deciding if it works well in the specific application is exactly what we(Stillpoints) advocate. And yes, mostly those decisions are based on what our ears tell us. Though, others may make decisions based on different criteria. That's fine. I could easily use a LPI on my TT but choose to take a different approach which my ears tell me works better in that application."[/I]
As mentioned above, the act of truly isolating an object from a single source of vibration is perhaps among the most simple and straightforward concepts that perhaps even a 5 year-old could understand and successfully execute. I'm unsure why some attempt to make that concept a complex matter.
BTW, I'm not saying that Stillpoints products are ineffective by any means. But since their materials and designs appear to be in direct conflict with the terminology used, I can't help but wonder whether Stillpoints fully understands what it is that their products are doing.
