Social Media and High End Audio

[Kingrex]

I hope you also tell them that most contemporary pressings are from digital remasters, so it's not even the true analog experience. They need to look for old pressings and not waste their money on the typical expensive digital-sourced vinyl now in record stores just because it's hip. They should better listen to a good DAC instead. Or go with something like the excellent Blue Note Tone Poet series, if they are into jazz, for example. That's real analog as well.

Isn't there a difference in recording in digital and home playback of digital?

 

[Verastarr]

I had a few text with Mike L this morning, then went into my shop to work on some panels. Panel work can be a little mindless so my thoughts were wondering and It hit me about a store owner with a youtube thread going to Mike L with his DAC in hand. Of course the video is already cut and edited. Wadax GREAT. Playback is so close, why spend the money. Its advertising for the cost of an airline ticket. If OCD really wants to know what his DAC is capable of, bring it to Mike L and only listen to the Playback and vinyl. You will hear the difference. You can infer how great your digital really is. If everyone says it indistinguishable from the vinyl, then you really have something special. You might also walk away feeling digital and vinyl have a gap between them.

Not wanting to invest in a new product line and spending the $$ and money to sus out what you want to carry is very reasonable. I myself only carry one product outside what I make. I don't want the headach. People ask me about duplex every day. I tell them, go online and buy a Hubbell 5362 with brass backstrap.

Back to the Wadax, if OCD really thought it was that great, he could contact Wadax and ask about being a dealer. It is a steep investment. Whether he has the ear of the market and respect of those people to move the product is up to him to decide. He is going to have to do research to figure it out. Staying true to what he has now is just fine too. I have seen him on video going through a variety of midlevel priced DAC over time. OCD like any dealer has selected what works for him and sells to his audience.

Well first off Im not interested in making a video at Mikes. This is not some ploy to use the session to springboard my own sales. I want to see what WADAX has to offer at $165K and Im sure its sorted well in Mikes rig. WADAX was Impossible to judge from the show... but my first listen was intriguing.
There must be an element of value for me to sell any given product to my clients and Im trying to assess that with WADAX.
When I replied to Jeff, it was because he posted a very opinionated and negative post about me. So I asked him to come listen to MY rig, which is a Holy Grail digital rig in my opinion. So the purpose was to have him come listen in order to understand where Im coming from in my vids.
I honestly dont think Ive yet heard a mind blowing Vinyl rig, so Id like to listen to Mikes system.

 

[Kingrex]

Its funny how stories get spun. I did not trace it back to the beginning when I jumped in. Its a long thread. I thought the visit was about comparing the 2 DAC. And really, there is nothing wrong with trying to boost ones sales by engaging in a head to head. As long as the owner of the rig is aware and ok, which Mike seems to say he is not.

I'm surprised you have not heard a well sorted vinyl rig. I have heard a few. I have also heard good digital.

I am finding its not more easy to get one right than the other. You have to put time, energy and $$$ into either to dial it in. I generally hear the owner say they go through phases of leap frog. One better than the other. Dependent on time, money and effort.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Its funny how stories get spun. I did not trace it back to the beginning when I jumped in. Its a long thread. I thought the visit was about comparing the 2 DAC. And really, there is nothing wrong with trying to boost ones sales by engaging in a head to head. As long as the owner of the rig is aware and ok, which Mike seems to say he is not.

what i don't want is the spin i read here. that's a guy rationalizing/equivocating why as opposed to what they hear. agendas. all Wadax haters can do is to question the tech. must be cheating.

don't need it.

dac compares bring out the beast in many, where-as digital/vinyl does not. and differences in vinyl gear are celebrated and encouraged. for whatever reason.

 

[Verastarr]

Its funny how stories get spun. I did not trace it back to the beginning when I jumped in. Its a long thread. I thought the visit was about comparing the 2 DAC. And really, there is nothing wrong with trying to boost ones sales by engaging in a head to head. As long as the owner of the rig is aware and ok, which Mike seems to say he is not.

I'm surprised you have not heard a well sorted vinyl rig. I have heard a few. I have also heard good digital.

I am finding its not more easy to get one right than the other. You have to put time, energy and $$$ into either to dial it in. I generally hear the owner say they go through phases of leap frog. One better than the other. Dependent on time, money and effort.

Yeah, I thought so as well.. Just for fun and the spirit of exploration... after all it is the most expensive DAC in the World so lets see what shes cooking with..
I have heard great Vinyl systems but none of them made me reverent towards the format. The cool factor was, and still is, totally on point. I love to see all the different ways designers accomplish the job. Its most interesting.

The Playback Designs MPD-8 DAC utterly changed my Audio journey. No other DAC has done this. Zero analysis is in my thought process while I listen.. first time ever.. Zero audio anxiety.. I crossed the line.. I have not changed a thing in my system for over 3 years and I could not be more thrilled. No more squirrel food. I found a way out... and my M.O. is to get my clients out as well. I love that my system and its place in my life has gotten so simple. It used to be a constant project.. Always trying to iron out one thing or another..

You are correct about chasing the new "better" thing.. I did it for 25 years before I finally crossed the line. And that DAC did it.. Im not trying to prove anything. My clients find me.

what i don't want is the spin i read here. that's a guy rationalizing/equivocating why as opposed to what they hear. agendas. all Wadax haters can do is to question the tech. must be cheating.

don't need it.

dac compares bring out the beast in many, where-as digital/vinyl does not. and differences in vinyl gear are celebrated and encouraged. for whatever reason.

Do you think Im a WADAX hater Mike ? Why ? I think you're making a misread on my intention. Its not a fight nor even a challenge or duel for me. This is only us audiophiles listening to gear and discussing. Whats wrong with speculating or otherwise guessing about a possible sonic signature and offering it up for discussion ? I dont think Im right, Im questioning what I hear so others can feed back... Did they hear it too ?
Ive got at least 5 other DACs that I will not sell because I like the differences they bring.
Also, lets suppose for a second WADAX was adding something using DSP.. Why would that be cheating ?? Its innovation !
My hope, is to find out how great WADAX is.

 

[andromedaaudio]

The Playback Designs MPD-8 DAC utterly changed my Audio journey. No other DAC has done this. Zero analysis is in my thought process while I listen.. first time ever.. Zero audio anxiety..

If i would have gotten a dollar for every time i have read this regarding a DAC , i would be able to buy a Wadax for free

 

[Verastarr]

If i would have gotten a dollar for every time i have read this regarding a DAC , i would be able to buy a Wadax for free

View attachment 108206

Yeah, I know Brother... Thats what this industry has become... A bunch of fluff with little integrity... Pretty easy place to have a leg up on the competition if your words actually mean something, you truly care about the clients and you sell them products that actually have value.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Yeah, I know Brother... Thats what this industry has become... A bunch of fluff with little integrity... Pretty easy place to have a leg up on the competition if your words actually mean something, you truly care about the clients and you sell them products that actually have value.

These days I mostly buy 50 year old stuff , digital is a hard sell on me.
Dealers and reviewers /the industry can scream and do whatever they want , its all fine with me


l l

 

[Verastarr]

These days I mostly buy 50 year old stuff , digital is a hard sell on me.
Dealers and reviewers /the industry can scream and do whatever they want , its all fine with me


View attachment 108207 l l

Great Stuff... ;-) May I ask how many tapes you have to listen to ?

 

[andromedaaudio]

Great Stuff... ;-) May I ask how many tapes you have to listen to ?

My guess is around 80 tapes , some are a double box so probably a bit more

 

[Mike Lavigne]

The Playback Designs MPD-8 DAC utterly changed my Audio journey. No other DAC has done this. Zero analysis is in my thought process while I listen.. first time ever.. Zero audio anxiety.. I crossed the line.. I have not changed a thing in my system for over 3 years and I could not be more thrilled. No more squirrel food. I found a way out... and my M.O. is to get my clients out as well. I love that my system and its place in my life has gotten so simple. It used to be a constant project.. Always trying to iron out one thing or another..

you are quite invested in the Playbacks Design MPD-8. both from a business and YouTube perspective. "all-in" looking from my seat. impugning that would come at a price. a situation to be avoided.

Do you think Im a WADAX hater Mike ? Why ? I think you're making a misread on my intention. Its not a fight nor even a challenge or duel for me. This is only us audiophiles listening to gear and discussing. Whats wrong with speculating or otherwise guessing about a possible sonic signature and offering it up for discussion ?

you are not in a position to be a Wadax dealer, so what causes me to view you as objective? actually seeking a better really expensive dac. does a $250k dac and server fit your business model? a reasonable move-up for your current customers or Youtube audience?

to be a Wadax dealer you would have to buy one. if you loved it would you do that? i think not. so why even be concerned about it? the dac market is not really paying attention to Playbacks verses Wadax. Playbacks is just fine in it's niche. Wadax in it's niche.

do i think you love or hate Wadax personally? i think you don't really care much one way or the other. but the idea of admitting the Wadax somehow moved your digital reference point past the Playbacks, would blow up your carefully crafted persona. so that is not very likely.

hater? just it serves your purposes to cast doubt on it. you already went there. and very expensive products come with an expected bit of built in skepticism. normal stuff. must be smoke and mirrors, can't be worth it.

I dont think Im right, Im questioning what I hear so others can feed back... Did they hear it too ?
Ive got at least 5 other DACs that I will not sell because I like the differences they bring.
Also, lets suppose for a second WADAX was adding something using DSP.. Why would that be cheating ?? Its innovation !

that can be twisted to fit the purpose of the writer and mood.

My hope, is to find out how great WADAX is.

no dac is straight wire with gain. a few do dispense with output stages, might still have filters, but then some add a passive volume attenuator. some convert everything to very high rez pcm, others dsd. some use tubes, others solid state. all in the name of overcoming analog to numbers and back to analog while fixing what happens in the numbers part.

 

[Willgolf]

Reading this thread is like watching boxing sparring partners go at each other which has taken away from the original intent of the thread. It reminds me of what goes on at Audiogon and it is why I would rather read and learn from Audiophiles on WBF. Why continue to debate the same point here. Just private email each other. Yes, I don't have to read this but I did. I wish I didn't.

 

[Verastarr]

you are quite invested in the Playbacks Design MPD-8. both from a business and YouTube perspective. "all-in" looking from my seat. impugning that would come at a price. a situation to be avoided.

Im all in for sure.. Why do it otherwise ? Its interesting how the members responding here seem to recognize dealers are mostly blowhards with a business motive. LOL, I dont blame you for thinking I would be the same.

you are not in a position to be a Wadax dealer, so what causes me to view you as objective? actually seeking a better really expensive dac. does a $250k dac and server fit your business model? a reasonable move-up for your current customers or Youtube audience?

I am not.. But before I blow this DAC off as ridiculous, I thought I should give it a chance for integrity. $250K DAC/server is not my current business model, but thats no reason not to learn about it.

to be a Wadax dealer you would have to buy one. if you loved it would you do that? i think not. so why even be concerned about it? the dac market is not really paying attention to Playbacks verses Wadax. Playbacks is just fine in it's niche. Wadax in it's niche.

Why wouldnt I buy something I love Mike ?
What IS the WADAX niche ? This is what I seek to understand clearly, I dont want to assume. .

do i think you love or hate Wadax personally? i think you don't really care much one way or the other. but the idea of admitting the Wadax somehow moved your digital reference point past the Playbacks, would blow up your carefully crafted persona. so that is not very likely.

Spot on Mike.. I dont care one way or the other. Just hoping to form an opinion from listening rather than looks and price. Carefully Crafted ?? Wow... you truly DO understand how shady and despicable Audio dealers are. If its not clear to you that Im a genuine person, thats unfortunate. I dont understand crafting a persona. And Im not sure how discontinuing a brand would blow up my manipulative charade anyways..

hater? just it serves your purposes to cast doubt on it. you already went there. and very expensive products come with an expected bit of built in skepticism. normal stuff. must be smoke and mirrors, can't be worth it.

Serves my purposes how ? its a totally different buyer. "worth it" is relative. I just want to hear a great DAC that may be doing something unique and different. I thought you had invited me over in the spirit of listening and learning as a fellow audiophile, and perhaps you could teach me something about the virtues of Vinyl. You are misinterpreting what I meant about a potential sonic signature of the WADAX. I liked what I thought I heard. Perhaps I was hallucinating at the time, a second listen in a dialed in system would be enjoyable.

that can be twisted to fit the purpose of the writer and mood.

no dac is straight wire with gain. a few do dispense with output stages, might still have filters, but then some add a passive volume attenuator. some convert everything to very high rez pcm, others dsd. some use tubes, others solid state. all in the name of overcoming analog to numbers and back to analog while fixing what happens in the numbers part.

Thats right. So theres nothing wrong with sonic signature, and Im not sure where you thought I didnt appreciate it.
Sonic signature starts with the microphone... and happens at each step. On both production and playback sides.


In conclusion, I have no motive to cast doubt on WADAX from a visit with you. I could do it right now without spending time or money if that were my aim.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Spot on Mike.. I dont care one way or the other. Just hoping to form an opinion from listening rather than looks and price.

good.

Carefully Crafted ?? Wow... you truly DO understand how shady and despicable Audio dealers are. If its not clear to you that Im a genuine person, thats unfortunate. I dont understand crafting a persona. And Im not sure how discontinuing a brand would blow up my manipulative charade anyways..

how many high end audio dealers and distributors have a Youtube channel and a moniker such as 'OCD'?

having never watched your videos i can't say what you actually do first hand.

btw; as a 40 year manager of a retail franchised dealership i am likely the most pro dealer and pro manufacturer audiophile you will ever meet. but i also have very high expectations from them. which are mostly met. i think highly of them, they do a good job for me.

 

[Verastarr]

good.

how many high end audio dealers and distributors have a Youtube channel and a moniker such as 'OCD'?

One that likes to poke fun at himself for the depth of the rabbit hole he went down. I thought it would be amusing for regular people to see the lengths I went through just to listen to music. Such as comparing torque spec on my RCA connectors for audible differences. Schuman pulse generators to condition the air molecules in the room for better sound wave propagation. Semi precious crystals and endless earth minerals, Bybee, Synergistic, Ricky Schultz, Audio Magic... you know the drill.. I figured this would be entertaining for the general public. I guess it was.

having never watched your videos i can't say what you actually do first hand.

I entertain and teach and naturally, I promote what I sell from time to time. Ive interviewed David Chesky, Eveanna Manley, Mark Levinson, Nelson Pass as guests for instance. They are not strangers.

a short history, I founded a cable company 23 years ago using my own designs and have a patent in audio connector design. I bought a long standing Audio Amplifier company in California and learned manufacturing of audio gear first hand. At one point I was an audio equipment modder and went on to design and produce speakers and components as an exercise. I consulted alongside Mark Levinson with LG Electronics in Seoul Korea to spearhead their High End Audio effort. Ill spare any more. Now I build and sell systems to my clients. They are not "customers" to me. They are friends.

btw; as a 40 year manager of a retail franchised dealership i am likely the most pro dealer and pro manufacturer audiophile you will ever meet. but i also have very high expectations from them. which are mostly met.

Well without dealers and manufacturers, who do we have ? I stand for good ethic and integrity in HiFi. Interlopers coming into our camp to rape and pillage will not be welcomed by me. I have simple expectations. Provide a value. This does not mean sell things cheap..

 

[Willgolf]

C'mon guys.... just enjoy the music!

 

[Kingrex]

OCD and DDK on the surface don't seem much different. Different nitch for sure. But a basket full of (insert adjective) out of both.

 

[Kingrex]

C'mon guys.... just enjoy the music!

Your getting first hand interaction with social media. It sort of fits the thread.

 

[Kingrex]

Jesh, I just watched Jays audio. It cost $45k for some exhibitors to put on a display at axpona. That's crazy. No wonder Elliot gets hot when people pick at his stuff. Thats real money.

 

[Kingrex]

I didn't get OCD comment about Grain either???? I never heard grain from the Wadax or any fake try to be vinyl. If anything it exposes a pasting of Black that many other DAC have. It sort of exposes attributes of other DAC a person may not like once they hear it. Thinking back on hearing the Wadax at Mikes place makes me think the Wadax/vinyl compare shows you how un-vinyl most other digital is.

The Wadax is stratospheric in price for a person like me. That does make hearing lesser $ units compared to it interesting. Its the high bar that does digital corectly in my mind. So it does help one understand whats missing in lower $$$ units and if the faults of the lesser $$$ pieces are ones you can tolerate.

I think a lot of people are gravitating to the Lampizator as one of its flaws is NOT compression and Black background. I heard it once. Not enought to really know. But compared to the fine vinyl playing, it was open.

While my First Sound Preamp was out for upgrades, I used a Shiit Valhalla in its place. Dam OTL had a tube failure. I just found out it not only blew a nice fuse in my Dartzeel and maybe ruined a REL sub, it also smoked the analog output in my Mojo Audio Mystique V3 DAC. So what DAC do is of interest to me. Do I pay to fix my older DAC. Or do I try something new. Like OCD, I have been extremely satisfied with my $6k DAC. I had no intention of changing it until I had too. That time has approached.