I think you are assuming I am running two separate pairs of interconnects from the line stage preamp. But I am not doing that. I am running one pair of interconnects only to the bass tower electronics, and I will be using the straight through connection in the bass tower electronics to feed a full range signal to the external ribbon panel amplifiers.
Well yes, I assumed you'd run two pairs of interconnects because that is the only way to retain a complete tube chain if a buffer goes into play. As far as the bass towers go, you can use cheap interconnects on them and never know the difference, if that is the concern.
The question is whether you want non-tube in the fullrange signal chain or not. One complication to that is some tube gear run higher voltage than most solid state buffers deal with, and match to amps without high gain since the preamp has more. Solid state buffers don't always sound as pleasant with too much voltage.
I would suppose that a phone call or an email will immediately give an answer to such simple question. Although Rasmussen retired someone must be able to answer it. Probably the input resistor is adjusted to 10k ohm to match his preamplfiers and can be easily changed. I have done this change in the past to active subwoofers to be able to use them with tube preamplfiers.
IMHO running an extra full range buffer for the main amps is a no, YMMV.
Well yes, I assumed you'd run two pairs of interconnects because that is the only way to retain a complete tube chain if a buffer goes into play. As far as the bass towers go, you can use cheap interconnects on them and never know the difference, if that is the concern.
.
Well yes, I assumed you'd run two pairs of interconnects because that is the only way to retain a complete tube chain if a buffer goes into play. As far as the bass towers go, you can use cheap interconnects on them and never know the difference, if that is the concern.
The question is whether you want non-tube in the fullrange signal chain or not. One complication to that is some tube gear run higher voltage than most solid state buffers deal with, and match to amps without high gain since the preamp has more. Solid state buffers don't always sound as pleasant with too much voltage.
My current plan is to run only one pair of interconnects to the preamp. I don’t know that I love the idea of running a second, cheap pair of interconnects to the bass tower amps because they still are handling information up to 250 Hz.
But I agree that running two pairs of interconnects is the only way to maintain an all-tube signal path to the ribbon panels.
Please elaborate on your point about tubes running higher voltage than a solid-state buffer can deal with. How does that relate to my situation?
Well yes, I assumed you'd run two pairs of interconnects because that is the only way to retain a complete tube chain if a buffer goes into play. As far as the bass towers go, you can use cheap interconnects on them and never know the difference, if that is the concern.
The question is whether you want non-tube in the fullrange signal chain or not. One complication to that is some tube gear run higher voltage than most solid state buffers deal with, and match to amps without high gain since the preamp has more. Solid state buffers don't always sound as pleasant with too much voltage.
My current plan is to run only one pair of interconnects to the preamp. I don’t know that I love the idea of running a second, cheap pair of interconnects to the bass tower amps because they still are handling information up to 250 Hz.
But I agree that running two pairs of interconnects is the only way to maintain an all-tube signal path to the ribbon panels.
Please elaborate on your point about tubes running higher voltage than a solid-state buffer can deal with. How does that relate to my situation?
I would suppose that a phone call or an email will immediately give an answer to such simple question. Although Rasmussen retired someone must be able to answer it. Probably the input resistor is adjusted to 10k ohm to match his preamplfiers and can be easily changed. I have done this change in the past to active subwoofers to be able to use them with tube preamplfiers.
IMHO running an extra full range buffer for the main amps is a no, YMMV.
Why do you not like the idea of adding a buffer to the ribbon panel signal?
Is this concern based on the assumption that I will use only one pair of interconnects? (Because if I do use two pairs of interconnects doesn’t the solid-state buffer on only the interconnects leading to the bass tower electronics?)
I don't have an answer for you Ron but 17 meter interconnect is a bad idea, I haven't heard any that sound right that long. IME past 4m the sound starts to change and with some cables not critically up to to 10m but beyond that things always fell apart. Try to revisit your equipment placement if you can.
It turns out that the solid-state Gryphon amplifier (10kohm input impedance) built into the bass towers of my Gryphon Pendragon speakers are wired in parallel with the external amplifier selected by the user to drive the separate ribbon panels (45kohm input impedance). I don’t know the underlying electrical reason, but this parallel load creates a heavy load on the line stage preamplifier. I believe Gryphon recommends a line stage with an output impedance of less than 100 ohms and, preferably, less than 50 ohms. The lower the output impedance, the better.
Further, my line stage will be driving 17 meters of interconnect. This long length of interconnect apparently puts an additional load on the output stage of the line stage. Especially with these factors added together I am wondering if the Aesthetix Callisto line stage with an output impedance of 350 ohms will not be ideal for my peculiar application.
Should I be concerned that my particular situation will place too heavy a load on the Callisto, with the sonic results that I may lose dynamics and high-frequency “sparkle”?
Thank you, David, but I love the concept of having the vinyl front-end and preamps in a separate room. I think much of the hand-ringing and attempted remedial efforts in our hobby regarding vibration and isolation arises from the problem of having the turntable and the phono stage and line stage being bathed in direct vibration from the loudspeakers.
I don't have an answer for you Ron but 17 meter interconnect is a bad idea, I haven't heard any that sound right that long. IME past 4m the sound starts to change and with some cables not critically up to to 10m but beyond that things always fell apart. Try to revisit your equipment placement if you can.
Thank you, David, but I love the concept of having the vinyl front-end and preamps in a separate room. I think much of the hand-ringing and attempted remedial efforts in our hobby regarding vibration and isolation arises from the problem of having the turntable and the phono stage and line stage being bathed in direct vibration from the loudspeakers.
Thank you, David, but I love the concept of having the vinyl front-end and preamps in a separate room. I think much of the hand-ringing and attempted remedial efforts in our hobby regarding vibration and isolation arises from the problem of having the turntable and the phono stage and line stage being bathed in direct vibration from the loudspeakers.
Many of us aren't of the same opinion at all when it comes to such devices and a separate room by itself isn't a guaranteed solution there are lots of things that come into play with that too. Even if everything works according to your calculations 17m interconnects are problematic and can take away more from the sound than what you could gain from the setup. This is something that you should try before fully committing.
Try it Keith, I'm not talking about noise it's fidelity and character of sound that starts to change with length. I don't know of any interconnects that sound right at that length, it's easy to check anyway.
My current plan is to run only one pair of interconnects to the preamp. I don’t know that I love the idea of running a second, cheap pair of interconnects to the bass tower amps because they still are handling information up to 250 Hz.
But I agree that running two pairs of interconnects is the only way to maintain an all-tube signal path to the ribbon panels.
Please elaborate on your point about tubes running higher voltage than a solid-state buffer can deal with. How does that relate to my situation?
Up to 250hz you simply won't hear the nuance like you will past that. It's bad to assume all cheaper interconnects sound "bad". DDK recommends Radioshack interconnects... They all have wires in them.
You just have to make sure you get the right SS buffer. If you find one that can do 2vrms, but your tube preamp does 3-5v, then you need to find a SS buffer that is 3-5v.
At 17m I'd run a buffer for sure. But then again I think you're nuts for wanting to have the record player in another room. I considered having one within arms reach of the side of the listening spot so I could quickly flip the record... but getting up to traverse into another room? Too much.
Folsom, with respect to the convenience issue the turntable is just on the other side of the wall from the listening position and there is a five foot wide opening between the two rooms.
Are you saying you would automatically install a buffer for any tube line stage driving interconnect that long (even if there were no impedance question on the amplifier end)?
I think I would install one for anything that long, tube or SS preamp. A good buffer is easy to drive and can have a very high input impedance. It'll work off of almost no power at all, so the preamp/source doesn't have to work itself into becoming less stable throughout the audio band.
Why do you not like the idea of adding a buffer to the ribbon panel signal?
Is this concern based on the assumption that I will use only one pair of interconnects? (Because if I do use two pairs of interconnects doesn’t the solid-state buffer on only the interconnects leading to the bass tower electronics?)
Mainly because it is something that adds a sound signature to the system, and little is known about it. It is like adding a line transformer with a step ratio of 1/4 - probably it would also solve your problem, but only trying we could know of its consequences - we do not know if the gain of the crossover could compensate for the attenuation.
You are designing a system from start - IMHO you should not consider patches and tinkers from start!
Also IMHO you should use the same balanced ICs and surely low capacitance ones, considering total length. And yes, if you like the VTL preamplfier sound it would solve all problems.
It would be nice if you could post a sketch on how you intend to connect your system - I am not sure anymore!
The buffers I use only improve sound. They don't impart anything, but instead make equipment be driven correctly so that you get clearer sound. In no way what so ever would I ever think of buffers as a compromising patch if it is up to snuff. My description for keeping an entire tube path is all about maintaining Ron's wishes. The difference between a tube preamp and buffer is certainly highlighted by the fact that tubes have gain & tube sound; so they have a different intention.
Ron have you considered splitting the ic length and perhaps the source components being in your source space and maybe 6-8 meters from the phono/ tape pre output to the preamp in your listening space and then 9-11 meters from the preamp to the bass towers. At least the concerns about the electrical demands of long ic runs are reduced. The Io has the output to handle this no problem.
Perhaps a port that can pass through ic runs may reduce the length of having sources in a seperate space.
!
