Rockport Arrakis (fully-upgraded by Andy) For Sale on Audiogon

[spiritofmusic]

Steve, Lloyd is thanking you for leaving the door open to him getting these beauties

 

[Steve Williams]

Steve, Lloyd is thanking you for leaving the door open to him getting these beauties

He's welcome but start the bidding low. Having an upgraded speaker does not make it the same as buying it new

Best example are my speakers. An upgraded X2 series l to X2 series 2 even though the same speaker (sans the glass back on the new X2 S2) sell for at least $15K less than the original X2 S2

 

[audioguy]

And I thought the depreciation on a 38 foot SeaRay was huge.

 

[thedudeabides]

No. I apologise for sounding snippy.

Thank you Ron.

The ability to apologize is somewhat rare these days and is a clear sign of personal integrity.

 

[Ron Resnick]

 

[marty]

If the speakers are $235.000 in retail, there is ZERO chance they will sell at $170.000, or close to that. $100.000 or even less, is more likely.

Totally agree. $100k is the ballpark.

 

[jeff1225]

They will sell 50% off retail, and I have proof to back up my statement. The pair of Magico MPros, a limited addition speaker, didn't sell until if was marked down to 50% off retail.

 

[PeterA]

They will sell 50% off retail, and I have proof to back up my statement. The pair of Magico MPros, a limited addition speaker, didn't sell until if was marked down to 50% off retail.

Wow, that was a great deal for someone and it must have been about the same price as a new M3. I did not realize that an MPro hit the used market.

 

[rockitman]

I see $120-125k being the magic number if they look 9/10 condition wise. If I were in my dream home with higher ceilings, I might be all over them if I had a chance to hear this speaker somewhere first.

 

[bonzo75]

Wow, that was a great deal for someone and it must have been about the same price as a new M3. I did not realize that an MPro hit the used market.

But new M3 will sell much lower than its retail price

 

[PeterA]

But new M3 will sell much lower than its retail price

You may be right in some markets, but perhaps not all. Remember, with the footers, they are mid $80K. So after slight dealer discount, that puts them at $70-75 which is half of what the MPro sold for at full retail ($139K). So, it's pretty close.

What do you mean by "much lower than its retail price"?

 

[knghifi]

They will sell 50% off retail, and I have proof to back up my statement. The pair of Magico MPros, a limited addition speaker, didn't sell until if was marked down to 50% off retail.

Really? Recently used pair listed on Agon at $10K below retail and gone, I assume sold, in 2 days.

 

[jeff1225]

Really? Recently used pair listed on Agon at $10K below retail and gone, I assume sold, in 2 days.

This is the pair I'm talking about. The MPro retailed at $160k and it wasn't until the pair was delisted at $79k that it sold....or disappeared from Audiogon.

 

[Elberoth]

There are a few things to consider.

1. For starters, noone pays a retail on those kind of speakers. If a customer shows up at a dealer with $188,000 in cash in his pocket (-20% off) no dealer will send him off. That is a very rare case though, as most potential customers getting $200k speaker would expect the dealer to accept their old pair of speakers as a partial trade. In my experience, people willing to spend this kind of money on hifi gear don't want to waste their time selling the speakers. A marginal price reduction ($170k) will not change that.

2. The market for such a big speakers is very limited. Unlike megabuck DACs for example, which can be sold to an audiophile with room of any size (provided he has the means to acquire it), this product can be sold to a very likited group of audiophiles, with only the biggest listening rooms. Those are few and far between.

3. The top of the range models depreciate the most. I will give you an example of Accuphase. Their 2 years old, entry level preamp in mint condition can be worth ~ 60% of retail. Top of the range model from the same manufacturer will most likely be worth less than 50%, probably around 45%. We are talking about same manufacturer and same product category. Because of the reasons I have discussed in #2 - speakers are even worse. Wilson Sasha 2 can be worth 60%, but Alexandria X2 may drop to 40%. There was a pair of Alexandria X2 mk 2 (upgraded from mk1) on AgoN, in perfect condition, listed by the dealer for $58k if I recall correctly. That was 1/3 of the original retail (which I believe is around $190.000 or thereabouts) and still no takers !

4. Rockports are in general tougher to sell and depreciate more than say Wilson on Magico.

5. With the introduction of the Lyra, Rockport has shown where the future development of their designs will go. From this perspective, Arrakis should be considered the outgoing model, that sooner or later will be replaced with a new design based on the aluminium tech. It is very much what happened with the Wilson Maxx 3, after the introduction of Alexia and XLF (with the new soft dome tweeter). The sales tanked instantly, as everyone was expecting the new Maxx model with a simialer soft dome tweeter to follow.

Which is why, IMO the price around $100k is more realistic. But I wouldn't really be surprised, if he only managed to get $80k.

 

[Steve Williams]

There are a few things to consider.

1. For starters, noone pays a retail on those kind of speakers. If a customer shows up at a dealer with $188,000 in cash in his pocket (-20% off) no dealer will send him off. That is a very rare case though, as most potential customers getting $200k speaker would expect the dealer to accept their old pair of speakers as a partial trade. In my experience, people willing to spend this kind of money on hifi gear don't want to waste their time selling the speakers. A marginal price reduction ($170k) will not change that.

2. The market for such a big speakers is very limited. Unlike megabuck DACs for example, which can be sold to an audiophile with room of any size (provided he has the means to acquire it), this product can be sold to a very likited group of audiophiles, with only the biggest listening rooms. Those are few and far between.

3. The top of the range models depreciate the most. I will give you an example of Accuphase. Their 2 years old, entry level preamp in mint condition can be worth ~ 60% of retail. Top of the range model from the same manufacturer will most likely be worth less than 50%, probably around 45%. We are talking about same manufacturer and same product category. Because of the reasons I have discussed in #2 - speakers are even worse. Wilson Sasha 2 can be worth 60%, but Alexandria X2 may drop to 40%. There was a pair of Alexandria X2 mk 2 (upgraded from mk1) on AgoN, in perfect condition, listed by the dealer for $58k if I recall correctly. That was 1/3 of the original retail (which I believe is around $190.000 or thereabouts) and still no takers !

4. Rockports are in general tougher to sell and depreciate more than say Wilson on Magico.

5. With the introduction of the Lyra, Rockport has shown where the future development of their designs will go. From this perspective, Arrakis should be considered the outgoing model, that sooner or later will be replaced with a new design based on the aluminium tech. It is very much what happened with the Wilson Maxx 3, after the introduction of Alexia and XLF (with the new soft dome tweeter). The sales tanked instantly, as everyone was expecting the new Maxx model with a simialer soft dome tweeter to follow.

Which is why, IMO the price around $100k is more realistic. But I wouldn't really be surprised, if he only managed to get $80k.

I agree with everything you say. All good points. I do think somewhere around $125K

 

[andromedaaudio]

Not sure the ALU/ damstiff design will be their one and only future direction , the lyra can also be a probe model , see how sales go and then ....

 

[knghifi]

This is the pair I'm talking about. The MPro retailed at $160k and it wasn't until the pair was delisted at $79k that it sold....or disappeared from Audiogon.

Hmm! I thought retails for $129k?

 

[Steve Williams]

Hmm! I thought retails for $129k?

I did as well

 

[DaveyF]

Interesting discussion! I would think that anyone who can spring for the Arrakis at the asking price of $170K, or any other piece of gear anywhere near that price, wouldn't be looking to negotiate that much.After all, if they don't like their purchase at this pittance amount, they will simply flip it off at whatever discount and go on to the next bauble, LOL. Those looking for a bargain are not the type of buyer who the seller is looking for...nor who IMHO should be thinking of 'stretching' their budget to accommodate this acquisition. It's all relevant.

 

[PeterA]

This is the pair I'm talking about. The MPro retailed at $160k and it wasn't until the pair was delisted at $79k that it sold....or disappeared from Audiogon.

Jeffrey, I thought they were $139K, but there seems to be some disagreement.