RMAF Best of Show? - $10K NOLA “KO” destroys most regardless of price

Mike Lavigne

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Apr 25, 2010
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The Schröder tonearm was the highlight of the show, in terms of analog gear. Beautifully made, and truly innovative. And hey, just US$ 6k :D


alexandre

actually, according to Steve Dobbins it will be $8900 list price. very innovative.

agree that it did sound very good, the bass was exceptional, hard to tell on the level of detail with that system.
 

KeithR

VIP/Donor
May 7, 2010
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I liked the KOs in Newport running on Prima Luna monoblocks (ie. inexpensive). Didn't get enough time on them unfortunately, but definitely not a Soulution-type sound.
 

audioarcher

Well-Known Member
May 6, 2012
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The Schröder tonearm was the highlight of the show, in terms of analog gear. Beautifully made, and truly innovative. And hey, just US$ 6k :D


alexandre

I believe it is actually $8,900. It is a very clever design that is truly original. The Atlas costs more not that I am defending the cost of carts.
 

mep

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Apr 20, 2010
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Turntables still getting under your skin Marty ? LOL
I think Musical Surroudings (Aesthetix/Clearaudio US Distributor) disagrees with your vinyl versus digital sound quality assessment. Cheers !

I disagree with Marty’s assessment of the turntable situation at RMAF this year. I found by and large that most rooms were getting great sound from their tables this year compared to last year when I thought damn few were getting good sound. It wasn’t uncommon to hear spectacular dynamics coming off the grooves and just overall some very lovely sound.

Again, the table that Christian owns made the biggest impression on me just as it did last year. Let’s face it, I think it takes some balls to bring a table to a show in this digital day and age. First of all, the pain-in-the-ass factor is quite high with regards to setup. You have digital people waiting to pounce at the first hint of a tick or pop. And yet and yet, in spite all of that, there were table setups that would hold their own with anything that was being played at RMAF (except for tape of course).
 

Mike Lavigne

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I found it was not that easy to point to a a truly "best sound of the show" this year. To be honest, there were few memorable "best sounds", whereas there were far more "worst sounds". However, unquestionably, one of the most extraordinary demos was the Sanders electrostatic speaker system. I'll tell you this, it may be a "one seat" system, but it has to be the hands down hi-end bargain of the century. 13K buys it all- and that includes speakers, crossover, the incredibly well-reviewed Magtech 500w amp (REG in TAS loves this thing), preamp and cables. It may even include a bow for all I know. As far as speaker cables, I swear Roger must have gone to Radio Shack and asked for something inexpensive to use. When they showed him 18-2 lamp cord, he must have said, "got anything thinner?". I'm telling you, if I didn't hear it I would never have believed it. He played some powerful drum material that knocked me on my ass, in addition to the usual sonic bon bons we typically hear at shows. Extraordinary resolution, transparency, and most import, musicality, at price that can't be touched by anything else, anywhere at anytime. A total and complete mindfk.
Moving up into the upper echelon, the Aesthetix demo on the mezzanine (can't remember the Denver dealer who sponsored the room) was extraordinary. However, that only became clear when they stopped using the zillion dollar Clearaudio turntable and played CD or computer. That's right, you heard it hear first. In fact, the most disappointing thing globally at the show was the often pitiful performance of turntables, in the same booth as a modest CD. Why take a zillion dollar table to a show if it isn't set up well is the question I kept asking myself? But once Jim switched to CD computer material, his modest 8K CD player, and 8K monoblock amps through the Focal Maestro (50K) speakers were magnificent playing Steely Dan and other assorted material. In fact, that room sounded far superior to the more expensive top of the line Focal Grand Utopias running on Solution gear just down the hall. (Does anyone really thing the Solution gear sounds good on anything except Jon Valin?). No need to spend that kind of money folks. The modest (for high end) Aesthetix stuff was superb. Lastly, I am obliged to nominate the Cardas room for "best sound at the show". What, you say? The Cardas room was a dry demo, and there was no sound. Exactly.

i'll agree that turntables are not always well served in audio shows due to obvious limitations in set up time limits and all the variables of execution. and many times they are 'loaned' to the room director and the operator of the tt is not fully qualified. even synergy between parts of the chain is not always ideal.

and then there are software issues too.

OTOH digital requires pressing a button. basically idiot proof.

RTR tape is a good deal less variable in terms of demo experiences.

and when you guys visit my room we can do all the digital to analog comparing you desire with no excuses. we'll let the chips fall where they may.
 

mep

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Apr 20, 2010
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RTR tape is a good deal less variable in terms of demo experiences.

and when you guys visit my room we can do all the digital to analog comparing you desire with no excuses. we'll let the chips fall where they may.

I'm pretty sure I know which way the chips will fall based on my own experiences. Tape will come out on top followed by LP. DSD will not be a distant third, but it will be third. I think DSD is scary good (and I haven't heard DSD2x-YET) and the smoothness and naturalness is approaching the type of sound you get from tape.
 

Bruce B

WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
Apr 25, 2010
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I'm pretty sure I know which way the chips will fall based on my own experiences. Tape will come out on top followed by LP. DSD will not be a distant third, but it will be third. I think DSD is scary good (and I haven't heard DSD2x-YET) and the smoothness and naturalness is approaching the type of sound you get from tape.

You should have been in Jonathan's room when we were recording master tapes at 2x DSD
 

marty

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
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Turntables still getting under your skin Marty ? LOL
I think Musical Surroudings (Aesthetix/Clearaudio US Distributor) disagrees with your vinyl versus digital sound quality assessment. Cheers !

Don't get me wrong guys. I love vinyl as well. I'm simply commenting that many at the show were simply not optimized for the very reasons Mike mentioned. In fact, it was the impression of several that at the Clearaudio/Aesthetix room mentioned previously, the lower priced rig using the Benz LP sounded far better than then megabuck rig using the Goldfinger. Still, neither compared to the sound of CD or computer in that particular room.
 

cjfrbw

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
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Pleasanton, CA
Naughty, naughty turntables. Audiophilia would be so un-confusing without them.
 

MylesBAstor

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
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I disagree with Marty’s assessment of the turntable situation at RMAF this year. I found by and large that most rooms were getting great sound from their tables this year compared to last year when I thought damn few were getting good sound. It wasn’t uncommon to hear spectacular dynamics coming off the grooves and just overall some very lovely sound.

Again, the table that Christian owns made the biggest impression on me just as it did last year. Let’s face it, I think it takes some balls to bring a table to a show in this digital day and age. First of all, the pain-in-the-ass factor is quite high with regards to setup. You have digital people waiting to pounce at the first hint of a tick or pop. And yet and yet, in spite all of that, there were table setups that would hold their own with anything that was being played at RMAF (except for tape of course).

I'm going to say it again (I don't know how many times I have to say this!). One can not draw any meaningful conclusions about a system at a show--much less when purchasing equipment at an audio store--unless you're listening to familiar software (of any of the three mediums). I could have easily trashed 3/4 of the systems had I not listened to my own LPs, tapes or CDs. (Yes I brought all three mediums to RMAF).

That said, I totally disagree with Marty about the sound of the turntables and the Clearaudio table in particular with the Goldfinger v.2, VAC electronics, Gershman Black Swan speakers whose sound really caught me by surprise. This C v.2 cartridge didn't display any of that oh so stereotypical cold and analytical Clearaudio sound. The sound of the albums that I brought was just oh so right and uncolored.

As far as setup, most of the table/cartridge manufacturers have their own people at the show who set up the analog front ends. For example, Sterling Trayle always set up all the Lyras at the show and now does Allen's tables. Same holds true for many others. I really don't think that with few exceptions that setup is as much of a problem as Mike indicates.
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
The one thing that impressed me with Marty's comment about the Clear Audio Master Innovation was how very definitely there was little if any bass in the sound . When they switched to a CD cut of a Steely Dan song the bottom end was night and day different.

I am not a vinyl guru like the rest of you here however I really liked the Master Innovation (and have since its release) but I must say in all candor that what I thought was a deep end was astonishingly thin compared to when a digital source was played
 

Gregadd

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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One can not draw any meaningful conclusions about a system at a show-

True. You can however reaffirm your prejudices.

Greg
 

MylesBAstor

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
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The one thing that impressed me with Marty's comment about the Clear Audio Master Innovation was how very definitely there was little if any bass in the sound . When they switched to a CD cut of a Steely Dan song the bottom end was night and day different.

I am not a vinyl guru like the rest of you here however I really liked the Master Innovation (and have since its release) but I must say in all candor that what I thought was a deep end was astonishingly thin compared to when a digital source was played

Steve: are you sure there was actually bass on the LP?

Moreso, one doesn't know unless you ask if it's that the cartridge is brand new (no surprise no bass) or that the table is badly set up. That's why so often equipment sounds so much better at the end of the show :(
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Difficult to say Myles because I was honestly enjoying what I heard until both Marty and Larry openly stated that the bottom end is lean. They asked to go to a digital source and played a Steely Dan song which shook the room.

Having said that I really like the Master Innovation and say lucky you Christian

As pointed out the Focal Maestro with Aesthetix IMO was far and away better than the larger Focal Grand Utopia with the huge Soulution amps playing in the room next door

Aesthetix IMO is wonderful gear
 

Lee

Well-Known Member
Feb 3, 2011
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Alpharetta, Georgia
I liked the following:

Wilson Alexia super system.
Wavelength plus Vaughn speakers. Amazing digital.
Joseph Audio Pearl 3 and Bel Canton.
Schiit Audio Gungnir DAC and Muljnir headphone amp.
Syngergistic Research system with Nola Boxer and Rogue Cronus Magnum and mega-deep voodoo tweaky stuff.
Mytek DSD 192 DAC system.
Wilson Maxx 3s (?) system with R2R at Doshi Audio (thanks Bruce for recommending a visit!)
Benchmark DAC2 and Sunday's new Studio Electric prototype speakers.
Vandersteen 7 plus ARC system.
Sonus Faber plus Simaudio.
My favorite digital was the Light Harmonic system. I liked it better than the Vivaldi stack. Seemed more natural to me.

Venture system and Nola KO were amazing. Both vying for top spot. Probably leaning to KO.
 

Lee

Well-Known Member
Feb 3, 2011
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Alpharetta, Georgia

Lee

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Feb 3, 2011
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Alpharetta, Georgia

rockitman

Member Sponsor
Sep 20, 2011
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The one thing that impressed me with Marty's comment about the Clear Audio Master Innovation was how very definitely there was little if any bass in the sound .

Definately not the table, arm or cart I can assure you. There is no lack of bass in that setup. Clearly, if you heard no bass, something was amiss (setup, software choice).
 

rbbert

Well-Known Member
Dec 12, 2010
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I only heard the Maestro Utopia / Clearaudio room on Sunday and agree that it sounded better than the same dealer's "big room". The digital file server definitely sounded better than LP's in that room; in most rooms I had no real preference for analog vs. digital (except when the LP's were noisy, which again a surprising number were).

That Maestro Utopia is good competition for the Wilson Alexia; quite a different sonic character but both nice.
 

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