Reflections on cable pricing insanity

[Orb]

Certainly we don't want to elevate form over substance. Objectivist want proof. That almost always means measurements.

An interesting one for measurement related proof is the digital RCA-cable connection between a CD transport and a DAC.
Why?
Because many digital S/PDIF transmission RCA connectors (termination and also electronic gear)/cables do not maintain 75ohm impedance correctly impacting upon reflection/eye measurement/clock-data/etc.
Yet it is interesting how some audio forum (various forums) objectivists view digital S/PDIF via RCA as a non-issue and that all cables-connectors-receiver chips are equal and so all digital cables sound the same; in reality the only ideal digital connection-termination is using BNC and probably I2S, with the complication of also requiring a well designed and implemented audio product.

Edit:
I think Hegel did some work to resolve this issues within their DACs, specifically relating to impedance mismatch-reflections.
Cheers
Orb

 

[edorr]

How ironic. After lamenting "cable price insanity (read Transparent Audio)" and trying to go another direction (Shunyata), I finally got around to inserting shunyata Zitron anaconda signal cables (ICs + SC) into my system (after three days of cooking).

My first take is that although they have some great qualities (blazing fast, clear and detailed), they are less "musical" sounding in my system than the Transparents (standard "reference"). I think it comes down to systems synergy - I imagine the Shunyata can bring a "lazy" system alive, but if speakers/amps are very transparent and fast already, they are too much of a good thing. Bottom line, I'll give the Shunyata's another listen this evening, but changes are I'll end up selling them, and try to score another Transparent Reference cable somewhere (offers for used Transparent Reference XLR cables are welcome).

Powercords are a different story. I have not tried my new Shunyata PC on the Ref5SE preamp yet, but I am expecting great things. PCs has always been Shunyata's strong suite.

 

[rockitman]

I don't think 3 days cooking is sufficient for complete breakin. I would give them at least a week with music playing through them 24/7. They may very well be how you describe, then again, if broken in, you make like the sound better.

 

[edorr]

I don't think 3 days cooking is sufficient for complete breakin. I would give them at least a week with music playing through them 24/7. They may very well be how you describe, then again, if broken in, you make like the sound better.

I'm sceptical a few days of extra cooking will dramatically change the character of the cables, and the change would have to be quite dramatic to swing my current preference.

 

[rockitman]

I'm sceptical a few days of extra cooking will dramatically change the character of the cables, and the change would have to be quite dramatic to swing my current preference.

It took two full weeks for my MIT's to stabilize and sound their best. Of course there are big network boxes involved with storage caps, ect. The way you describe the sound of your cables is typical of the sound of many good cables when they are new and not fully broken in. Give then more time unless you are he'll bent for transparent.

 

[MylesBAstor]

How ironic. After lamenting "cable price insanity (read Transparent Audio)" and trying to go another direction (Shunyata), I finally got around to inserting shunyata Zitron anaconda signal cables (ICs + SC) into my system (after three days of cooking).

My first take is that although they have some great qualities (blazing fast, clear and detailed), they are less "musical" sounding in my system than the Transparents (standard "reference"). I think it comes down to systems synergy - I imagine the Shunyata can bring a "lazy" system alive, but if speakers/amps are very transparent and fast already, they are too much of a good thing. Bottom line, I'll give the Shunyata's another listen this evening, but changes are I'll end up selling them, and try to score another Transparent Reference cable somewhere (offers for used Transparent Reference XLR cables are welcome).

Powercords are a different story. I have not tried my new Shunyata PC on the Ref5SE preamp yet, but I am expecting great things. PCs has always been Shunyata's strong suite.

I agree that burning in helps the sound but there are some basic properties that don't go away, just decrease in magnitude (think the same is also true for equipment). For instance if a cable is bright to begin with, that's never going to totally disappear even if you burn the cable in to kingdom come. If a cable is veiled, it may open up somewhat, but it'll never be totally transparent.

 

[edorr]

I agree that burning in helps the sound but there are some basic properties that don't go away, just decrease in magnitude (think the same is also true for equipment). For instance if a cable is bright to begin with, that's never going to totally disappear even if you burn the cable in to kingdom come. If a cable is veiled, it may open up somewhat, but it'll never be totally transparent.

My thought exactly. The whole notion of cable burn in is a bit voodooish to begin with, but I'm a good sport and willing to go along with the ritual (and even bought a cable cooker to show my commitment!). But the idea that the fundamental character of a cable will change after two more weeks of cooking (or playing music, settling in etc.), is too much for me.

 

[rockitman]

I disagree with both of you. If it's a bit etched when new... that is not a guarantee the will stay that way after you actually listened to music through them for 50 hours or more. Maybe this is the case with the Shuns, but you cannot generalize for all cables.

 

[PeterA]

My thought exactly. The whole notion of cable burn in is a bit voodooish to begin with, but I'm a good sport and willing to go along with the ritual (and even bought a cable cooker to show my commitment!). But the idea that the fundamental character of a cable will change after two more weeks of cooking (or playing music, settling in etc.), is too much for me.

I just bought a new suite of Transparent cables. I broke them in 24/7 on a CDP for nine days while I went on vacation. They sounded great for a month. I switched back for a few days to listen to my old cables. During the switch, my Pass phono and pre had to be shut off for a few minutes. The old Harmonic Tech cables sounded as I remembered. But then I switched back to the Transparents again. I don't know what it was, but the cables (or the Pass gear, or both) took another three days (only three hours listening at night, but powered on 24/7) to sound the same and excellent again. I know that the Pass gear needs to be on for a few days once it's been shut off. I think these cables also need to be played through for a few days once they have been moved out of a system to sound good again.

I had not believed in cable break in before this, but now, I think it matters at least with some cables. Perhaps, the better the cable, the more it needs to settle in.

I agree cable prices can get pretty high, but this last set of auditions has helped me to understand what a difference cables can make in some systems.

 

[MadFloyd]

I thought I would chime in to relate my recent experience with Transparent.

I own Reference XL cabling (which I purchased new). Sometime after acquiring the cables I upgraded both my preamp and DAC. I am having Jim Smith (Get Better Sound) arriving tomorrow (Friday) to voice my Wilson Sasha speakers. So last week I arranged (through my dealer) to have the cables sent back to Transparent to be tuned to my current gear.

I shipped the cables to Transparent last Wednesday and they arrived the next day (they are very close to me). It was my understanding that they service Reference level customers immediately and I more or less expected to have the cables back on Friday or Saturday (allowing more or less a week to break them in). After no such luck I inquired this past Monday, got an answer Tuesday that they would ship Wednesday (yesterday). They didn't arrive today which tells me they didn't ship yesterday. I am in the dark as to whether they shipped today, or will ship tomorrow etc.

These cables are expensive and the fact that they need to be re-tuned when you change gear - only to have them be somewhat unlistenable for a week or so - is a major inconvenience that is only somewhat tempered by the notion that Transparent will give priority to re-tuning and have fast turnaround.

I am so disgusted with this poor service, including the lack of any warning or explanation that it would take this long - and of course the lack of any shipping communication whatsoever (let alone broken promises) that I really wish I had went MIT.

EDIT: Just heard from my dealer. Apparently the normal turnaround for Transparent to re-tune cables is 2 weeks. I have been under the impression that turn around was much faster due to reports that I've read on forums and from a prior experience where they did turnaround same day. Also found out that they shipped the cables back to my dealer instead of me (by mistake); I'll have them tomorrow. Not that they will be used for Jim Smith's visit, mind you.

 

[microstrip]

MadFloyd,

Transparent Audio have an excellent customer service - all my many emails to their custom service about re-calibration and tuning, send along several years, got an answer from Demos Dadiotes in less than 48 hours, typically next day.

 

[LL21]

I thought I would chime in to relate my recent experience with Transparent.

I am so disgusted with this poor service, including the lack of any warning or explanation that it would take this long - and of course the lack of any shipping communication whatsoever (let alone broken promises) that I really wish I had went MIT.

EDIT: Just heard from my dealer. Apparently the normal turnaround for Transparent to re-tune cables is 2 weeks. I have been under the impression that turn around was much faster due to reports that I've read on forums and from a prior experience where they did turnaround same day. Also found out that they shipped the cables back to my dealer instead of me (by mistake); I'll have them tomorrow. Not that they will be used for Jim Smith's visit, mind you.

That was quick...did they read your post? Hope they are back on time tomorrow.

 

[MadFloyd]

That was quick...did they read your post? Hope they are back on time tomorrow.

I just happened to get an email from my dealer (who was responding to an email I sent him just before I posted).

I guess I am being a grumpy old man here. I have high expectations and hate feeling helpless and reliant so take everything I say with a grain of salt.

 

[Andre Marc]

I just happened to get an email from my dealer (who was responding to an email I sent him just before I posted).

I guess I am being a grumpy old man here. I have high expectations and hate feeling helpless and reliant so take everything I say with a grain of salt.

Quite a bourgeois problem to have.

Now go tell those kids to get off your lawn.

I'm busting your balls...

 

[Andre Marc]

I just happened to get an email from my dealer (who was responding to an email I sent him just before I posted).

I guess I am being a grumpy old man here. I have high expectations and hate feeling helpless and reliant so take everything I say with a grain of salt.

Damn nice system btw.

 

[LL21]

Quite a bourgeois problem to have.

Now go tell those kids to get off your lawn.

I'm busting your balls...

Like Johnny Carson once said..."The hurricane was terrible for me. It knocked the satellite dish right into the pool and flooded the polo field."

 

[PeterA]

I thought I would chime in to relate my recent experience with Transparent.

I own Reference XL cabling (which I purchased new). Sometime after acquiring the cables I upgraded both my preamp and DAC. I am having Jim Smith (Get Better Sound) arriving tomorrow (Friday) to voice my Wilson Sasha speakers. So last week I arranged (through my dealer) to have the cables sent back to Transparent to be tuned to my current gear.

I shipped the cables to Transparent last Wednesday and they arrived the next day (they are very close to me). It was my understanding that they service Reference level customers immediately and I more or less expected to have the cables back on Friday or Saturday (allowing more or less a week to break them in). After no such luck I inquired this past Monday, got an answer Tuesday that they would ship Wednesday (yesterday). They didn't arrive today which tells me they didn't ship yesterday. I am in the dark as to whether they shipped today, or will ship tomorrow etc.

These cables are expensive and the fact that they need to be re-tuned when you change gear - only to have them be somewhat unlistenable for a week or so - is a major inconvenience that is only somewhat tempered by the notion that Transparent will give priority to re-tuning and have fast turnaround.

I am so disgusted with this poor service, including the lack of any warning or explanation that it would take this long - and of course the lack of any shipping communication whatsoever (let alone broken promises) that I really wish I had went MIT.

EDIT: Just heard from my dealer. Apparently the normal turnaround for Transparent to re-tune cables is 2 weeks. I have been under the impression that turn around was much faster due to reports that I've read on forums and from a prior experience where they did turnaround same day. Also found out that they shipped the cables back to my dealer instead of me (by mistake); I'll have them tomorrow. Not that they will be used for Jim Smith's visit, mind you.

Madfloyd, It's not clear to me from your post which cable you sent back to Transparent for adjustment, but if it is the IC for DAC to PRE, then Jim Smith arrives with his own DAC, Laptop and cable to PRE for the RoomPlay service. I would not worry too much if the Transparent cable is not fully re-broken in by the time Jim arrives. Have a wonderful time with Jim. You should learn a lot and have fun. Please give us a full report once you have fully experienced the results of his visit.

 

[Andre Marc]

like johnny carson once said..."the hurricane was terrible for me. It knocked the satellite dish right into the pool and flooded the polo field."

lol!!

 

[edorr]

So I just inserted my newly acquired Transparent Reference cable in the cooker and the "active" light does not come on for one cable. When I insert it in my system it produces sound, but about 10dB lower volume than the other cable, so it is playing single ended and one of the two conductors in the balanced signal paths is not working. I find it pretty unbelievable quality control at TA lets a defective $5K cable slip through....... Huge disappointment. I'll probably lose at least a week getting this resolved, which is eternatity on the "audiophile full of anticipation" timescale.

 

[Frank750]

I inserted a pair of MIT MA-X SHD Interconnects between my preamp and amplifiers yesterday. They're not even on the MIT website yet. They replaced the previous generation MA-X Rev. 2 which had the same position in my system. Almost zero break in but initial opinion is WOW! Rest of the system has MA-X Rev2 ICs and SHD speaker cables so I'm accustomed to the MIT sound. Just incredible what one pair of these new ICs are doing for the bass, clarity and overall presentation. After 1 day! In keeping with the theme of the thread, insane pricing? yes, but the results are glorious.