I can alrady see a movie script. "South African psycho". He does have the same demeanor as Patrick Bateman.....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Psycho_(film)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Psycho_(film)
Oscar Pistorious...does he have the perfect excuse?
- Thread starter DaveyF
- Start date
Perhaps DaveyF is more clairvoyant than us.......
By Peter Weber The Week
South African model Reeva Steenkamp is dead, and nobody disputes that double-amputee track star Oscar Pistorius fatally shot her while she was in the toilet stall of Pistorius' Pretoria-area house. But other than that, the case just keeps getting weirder.
At what was supposed to be a routine bail hearing Thursday, prosecutors acknowledged that their main witness, lead investigator Detective Hilton Botha, was due in court in May to face seven criminal counts of attempted murder. And under tough cross-examination from Pistorius' lawyer, Barry Roux, Botha conceded on Wednesday that there may not be enough evidence to support the prosecution's case that Pistorius murdered Steenkamp in cold blood after a fight early on Feb. 14. Pistorius says he believed he was shooting at an intruder.
The case was already tabloid-friendly enough when police Brig. Neville Malila dropped the news, "as bewildering as it was sensational," that Botha faced attempted murder charges, say Lydia Polgreen and Alan Cowell in The New York Times. In the October 2011 incident, Botha and two other police officers allegedly shot up a minivan taxi carrying seven passengers, possibly while drunk, Malila said Thursday. The case had been provisionally shelved, and "we were informed yesterday that the charges will be reinstated." The decision to reactivate the police-shooting case, apparently made Feb. 4, won't help the prosecution's case against Pistorius, Malila acknowledged, but "at this stage, there are no plans to take him off the Pistorius case." (That might change later Thursday, when the police hold a press conference.) Prosecutor Gerrie Nel told the court on Thursday that his team also had no idea about the pending charges when they had Botha take the stand Wednesday.
Here's the prosecution's basic case: A witness (or witnesses) heard shouting in Pistorius' house in the early hours of Feb. 14, then, around 3 a.m., one gunshot followed 17 minutes later by more shots. Pistorius walked into his bathroom on his prosthetic legs, Botha testified, then shot Steenkamp through the door, hitting her in the hip, arm, and head. On Tuesday, the presiding judge increased the charge to premeditated murder, saying he couldn't rule out that the runner had planned the killing in advance.
Here's Pistorius' basic case, laid out in an affidavit: Steenkamp probably got up to go to the bathroom while Pistorius was closing the balcony door; hearing noises, he grabbed his gun, shouted for what he believed to be intruders to leave, then shot at them through the toilet stall door. He was not wearing his prosthetic legs, leaving him feeling especially vulnerable. Steenkamp locked herself in the stall when she heard Pistorius shouting about intruders, Roux suggested on Wednesday, and her empty bladder at the time of death backs up Pistorius' assertion that she was in the bathroom to use the toilet, not to hide from him.
Things started going south for the prosecution during Roux's "withering cross-examination that left Detective Botha grasping for answers that did not contradict his earlier testimony," say Polgreen and Cowell in The New York Times. Botha was "forced to concede that he could not rule out Mr. Pistorius's own version of events based on the existing evidence," copping to sloppy police work, inconclusive or preliminary evidence, and some conjecture. In fact, says Andrew Harding at BBC News, "some might argue that Det. Botha, who wilted under strenuous cross-examination by the defense... has already done enough damage to the prosecution's call for Mr. Pistorius to be denied bail and that the new revelations may not affect the magistrate's decision significantly."
The prosecutorial bungling is already drawing unfavorable comparisons to another infamous murder trial.
By Peter Weber The Week
South African model Reeva Steenkamp is dead, and nobody disputes that double-amputee track star Oscar Pistorius fatally shot her while she was in the toilet stall of Pistorius' Pretoria-area house. But other than that, the case just keeps getting weirder.
At what was supposed to be a routine bail hearing Thursday, prosecutors acknowledged that their main witness, lead investigator Detective Hilton Botha, was due in court in May to face seven criminal counts of attempted murder. And under tough cross-examination from Pistorius' lawyer, Barry Roux, Botha conceded on Wednesday that there may not be enough evidence to support the prosecution's case that Pistorius murdered Steenkamp in cold blood after a fight early on Feb. 14. Pistorius says he believed he was shooting at an intruder.
The case was already tabloid-friendly enough when police Brig. Neville Malila dropped the news, "as bewildering as it was sensational," that Botha faced attempted murder charges, say Lydia Polgreen and Alan Cowell in The New York Times. In the October 2011 incident, Botha and two other police officers allegedly shot up a minivan taxi carrying seven passengers, possibly while drunk, Malila said Thursday. The case had been provisionally shelved, and "we were informed yesterday that the charges will be reinstated." The decision to reactivate the police-shooting case, apparently made Feb. 4, won't help the prosecution's case against Pistorius, Malila acknowledged, but "at this stage, there are no plans to take him off the Pistorius case." (That might change later Thursday, when the police hold a press conference.) Prosecutor Gerrie Nel told the court on Thursday that his team also had no idea about the pending charges when they had Botha take the stand Wednesday.
Here's the prosecution's basic case: A witness (or witnesses) heard shouting in Pistorius' house in the early hours of Feb. 14, then, around 3 a.m., one gunshot followed 17 minutes later by more shots. Pistorius walked into his bathroom on his prosthetic legs, Botha testified, then shot Steenkamp through the door, hitting her in the hip, arm, and head. On Tuesday, the presiding judge increased the charge to premeditated murder, saying he couldn't rule out that the runner had planned the killing in advance.
Here's Pistorius' basic case, laid out in an affidavit: Steenkamp probably got up to go to the bathroom while Pistorius was closing the balcony door; hearing noises, he grabbed his gun, shouted for what he believed to be intruders to leave, then shot at them through the toilet stall door. He was not wearing his prosthetic legs, leaving him feeling especially vulnerable. Steenkamp locked herself in the stall when she heard Pistorius shouting about intruders, Roux suggested on Wednesday, and her empty bladder at the time of death backs up Pistorius' assertion that she was in the bathroom to use the toilet, not to hide from him.
Things started going south for the prosecution during Roux's "withering cross-examination that left Detective Botha grasping for answers that did not contradict his earlier testimony," say Polgreen and Cowell in The New York Times. Botha was "forced to concede that he could not rule out Mr. Pistorius's own version of events based on the existing evidence," copping to sloppy police work, inconclusive or preliminary evidence, and some conjecture. In fact, says Andrew Harding at BBC News, "some might argue that Det. Botha, who wilted under strenuous cross-examination by the defense... has already done enough damage to the prosecution's call for Mr. Pistorius to be denied bail and that the new revelations may not affect the magistrate's decision significantly."
The prosecutorial bungling is already drawing unfavorable comparisons to another infamous murder trial.
Steve, I am no more clairvoyant than anyone else on this forum.
However, having been to SA on numerous occasions, the possibility of what is unfolding was definitely on my mind. A little background on the typical SA's opinion of the police force may be in order. Most ( perhaps all) of the white population seem to have VERY little faith in the police force..corruption is felt to be rampant and criminal activity is many times overlooked. Like in several societies, money controls justice and power. As to the event with the taxi, a little background here may be helpful as well. The taxi's in question have little resemblance to taxi's in this country, they are typically owned by poor black people who drive them and transport other poor blacks. The taxi's themselves are usually worn out mini vans and are carrying upwards of twenty plus people. They are generally known to transport less than salubrious characters that would typically be armed. Shooting at one of these vehicles by a police officer would not be unheard of.
Nonetheless, I do feel VERY sorry for the family of Miss Steenkamp, justice may or may not prevail
However, having been to SA on numerous occasions, the possibility of what is unfolding was definitely on my mind. A little background on the typical SA's opinion of the police force may be in order. Most ( perhaps all) of the white population seem to have VERY little faith in the police force..corruption is felt to be rampant and criminal activity is many times overlooked. Like in several societies, money controls justice and power. As to the event with the taxi, a little background here may be helpful as well. The taxi's in question have little resemblance to taxi's in this country, they are typically owned by poor black people who drive them and transport other poor blacks. The taxi's themselves are usually worn out mini vans and are carrying upwards of twenty plus people. They are generally known to transport less than salubrious characters that would typically be armed. Shooting at one of these vehicles by a police officer would not be unheard of.
Nonetheless, I do feel VERY sorry for the family of Miss Steenkamp, justice may or may not prevail
Steve, I am no more clairvoyant than anyone else on this forum.
However, having been to SA on numerous occasions, the possibility of what is unfolding was definitely on my mind. A little background on the typical SA's opinion of the police force may be in order. Most ( perhaps all) of the white population seem to have VERY little faith in the police force..corruption is felt to be rampant and criminal activity is many times overlooked. Like in several societies, money controls justice and power. As to the event with the taxi, a little background here may be helpful as well. The taxi's in question have little resemblance to taxi's in this country, they are typically owned by poor black people who drive them and transport other poor blacks. The taxi's themselves are usually worn out mini vans and are carrying upwards of twenty plus people. They are generally known to transport less than salubrious characters that would typically be armed. Shooting at one of these vehicles by a police officer would not be unheard of.
Nonetheless, I do feel VERY sorry for the family of Miss Steenkamp, justice may or may not prevail
Davey
You wake up, you don;t see your fiancee, you hear noise and you shoot through the door of a closed WC ? No question to where she is? And still not knowing where she is you shoot? 4 times??? I suppose that she felt no pain when he shot the first time and didn't make any noise? Just getting her ultimate ration of lead, silently? He may need to be incarcerated for sheer stupidity if that were the truth and if you ask me, I don't think it is. I am not a judge or a lawyer, nor do I know anything about the Law but this as fishy as they get to me. Too weird to be true. I'll take Spontaneous Combustion anytime but not that.
The issue is presumably he knew very well how to handle a gun, but not so well how to handle having a relationship with a very good looking girlfriend.
I've been to SA several times. Beautiful place, but crazy. There are "Armed Response" signs everywhere, houses have barbed wire topped walls around them, armed guards in residential areas and people protect expensive cars through printed threats of electrocuting thieves that try to get away with the car. At restaurants in Jo'burg you have to check your personal firearms before being allowed to enter the restaurant proper.
Pistorius applied for permission to purchase another 6 weapons, the day before the shooting.
They found steroids in his apartment.
The police officer that is, mildly put, tainted - is not a witness to the shooting, he came after the shooting happened, and the fact that he seems to be gun challenged himself does not have any bearing on the known facts of what happened inside Pistorius' dwelling.
Pistorius behaved irresponsibly to an extreme degree. Even if he challenged burglars, you can't simply fire away as he did, without there being a clear threat to his own life. And as he knew his girlfriend was in the apartment with him, the irresponsibility he displayed reaches stratospheric levels, as he fired four times without knowing what he was shooting at.
Just speculation, but if it's true that 17 minutes passed from the first shot to the three last shots, then it's easy to imagine a quarrel, Pistorius firing his pistol and the girlfriend hiding in the bathroom.
She is keeping the door shut, he argues with her, tries to open the door and can't, possibly because she is holding the door knob shut.
He fires three shots. One hits her hip, she starts slumping down, the next hits her arm, she slumps down even more, and the third shot goes to her head.
It's not open-and-shut, but it looks like ****, and if he walks from this, then the law in SA is just an illusion.
Pistorius applied for permission to purchase another 6 weapons, the day before the shooting.
They found steroids in his apartment.
The police officer that is, mildly put, tainted - is not a witness to the shooting, he came after the shooting happened, and the fact that he seems to be gun challenged himself does not have any bearing on the known facts of what happened inside Pistorius' dwelling.
Pistorius behaved irresponsibly to an extreme degree. Even if he challenged burglars, you can't simply fire away as he did, without there being a clear threat to his own life. And as he knew his girlfriend was in the apartment with him, the irresponsibility he displayed reaches stratospheric levels, as he fired four times without knowing what he was shooting at.
Just speculation, but if it's true that 17 minutes passed from the first shot to the three last shots, then it's easy to imagine a quarrel, Pistorius firing his pistol and the girlfriend hiding in the bathroom.
She is keeping the door shut, he argues with her, tries to open the door and can't, possibly because she is holding the door knob shut.
He fires three shots. One hits her hip, she starts slumping down, the next hits her arm, she slumps down even more, and the third shot goes to her head.
It's not open-and-shut, but it looks like ****, and if he walks from this, then the law in SA is just an illusion.
Frantz, once again, I am in NO WAY attempting to justify Mr. Pistorious's actions or his lack of guilt. I am simply trying to point out a few things...1) SA law and the application of same isn't necessarily what one would expect coming from a shall we say.... less than 'third world country', 2) Mr. Pistorious needs to be presumed INNOCENT until PROVEN GUILTY. I'm sure that all of us here would agree with that, and 3) even the most presumed "open and shut" case isn't necessarily that...as perhaps evidenced by the OJ case here in the US.
That's all.
Much like OJ, many will probably continue to presume his innocence even if evidence beyond reasonable doubt is mounting he is not innocent. Much like a parent will have a hard time coming to term with the notion that their child has murdered someone, many in SA (and in sports) will have a hard time coming to terms with the idea their favorite son actually committed this crime. It will be extremely interesting to see how this plays out.....
I am originally from Haiti a definitely "Third World" country. Haiti law systems is patterned after the French Code of Law. I would think that France would qualify as "more than a third World" country but I digress. BTW I do not mean you are trying to justify his actions. Simply that IMHO he is guilty. Strangely enough I feel for him. There , is a man with glory and fame and money who overcame extraordinary difficult circumstances to achieve what many thought impossible: Participate to the highest level of Athletic competition, the Olympics Game. Today, a broken , destroyed individual. Very sad fate, very disheartening circumstances.
The evidence are heavily against Mr Pistorius the more you learn about the incident or shall we say the murder. To recount what I have learning this thread alone: The first which might have been fired 17 minutes (!!) before the others ... Still, he fires in a closed or locked WC without trying to ascertain the identity of the person inside the WC!!! Three shots!!.. In all but he most absurd way to interpret the law would such translates to a non-guilty verdict, I dare hope. Not a matter of law system or degree of economic advancement of the country ...
100% +
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* Davey, your thread's title says "prefect", instead of 'perfect'. ...Just an observation.
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This all affair is truly sad for the victim and her family; a lovely young girl who's life was cut short way too soon.
And she was a spoke person against domestic violence!
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To one degree or another, money buys "justice" in every country. Two people charged with the same crime in the U.S. (and probably everywhere else too) could have very different outcomes depending on the quality of their defense. Which is different than some countries where you just out and out buy your "justice" through bribes (and not saying that our court system has never experienced a judge taking bribes). I love the Lethal Weapon movie with Chris Rock when he is slapping the cuffs on a criminal and advising him of his rights which he modified somewhat when he said, "If you can't afford an attorney, we will hire you the dumbest MF on the face of the earth."
On a lighter note and speaking of income and legal repercussions of violations of the law, in Swisterland and Finland (as well as in Sweden I believe) fines are proportional to income. A very reasonable idea in my opinion. So this rich guy clocking 180mph in switserland in his merc, is eligable for a $1mln. fine. What a concept!
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/38660951/ns/world_news-europe/
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/38660951/ns/world_news-europe/
Pistorius granted bail
http://xfinity.comcast.net/articles/sports-general/20130222/Pistorius.granted.bail/
http://xfinity.comcast.net/articles/sports-general/20130222/Pistorius.granted.bail/
Defense has now suggested a charge of culpable homicide vs. premeditated homicide
A new investigating officer is assigned to the case, who wasn't even present at the scene after the event
According to the report, Mr. Pistorious's coach is planning on getting him back on the track for some training..
Interesting.
A new investigating officer is assigned to the case, who wasn't even present at the scene after the event
According to the report, Mr. Pistorious's coach is planning on getting him back on the track for some training..
Interesting.
The only thing that is missing from this story is the white van being chased by a police car through the streets of Los Angeles. It really does have the feel of the OJ case: Great athlete, attractive significant other, facts that seem to suggest an "open and shut" case. The only thing that is needed to make it almost a duplicate is the "not guilty" verdict.
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