New Think Piece From Roy Gregory

[microstrip]

(...) But right now, if enough measurements are made, we can tell a lot about how the amp will sound. IOW there is now a direct link between what we can hear and what we can measure. (...)

No doubt a lot of progress has been made - but the hard question is how close we are to the Carver dream - designing some hardware showing these measurements warrants us the same sound quality?

 

[tima]

This sounds familiar. I've been harping on this for years.

It sounds familiar partly because I've been listening to you and learning from you over the years.

But right now, if enough measurements are made, we can tell a lot about how the amp will sound. IOW there is now a direct link between what we can hear and what we can measure.

Vladimir Lamm might tell us the same thing. His circuit designs come out of mathematical models derived empirically. I wonder if there are enough measurements to take, from which his models could be derived.

It's the 'association' between measurement specifics and hearing specifics that ultimately counts. (Causality perhaps too strong a word.) If the claim of a particular association is made, isn't it the hearing that proves that. A fairly large amount of what you call evidence needs gathering before accepting that an association obtains.

 

[morricab]

It sounds familiar partly because I've been listening to you and learning from you over the years.



Vladimir Lamm might tell us the same thing. His circuit designs come out of mathematical models derived empirically. I wonder if there are enough measurements to take, from which his models could be derived.

It's the 'association' between measurement specifics and hearing specifics that ultimately counts. (Causality perhaps too strong a word.) If the claim of a particular association is made, isn't it the hearing that proves that. A fairly large amount of what you call evidence needs gathering before accepting that an association obtains.

A lot that I have gleaned from LAMM regarding his model fits pretty well with the model developed by Cheever in 2001. They are both roughly aligned with the musings of Jean Hiraga. While this will never satisfy everyone…there is too much variance in the data and humans in general, it does provide a very good staring point that should sound more natural to most listeners.

 

[Atmasphere]

No doubt a lot of progress has been made - but the hard question is how close we are to the Carver dream - designing some hardware showing these measurements warrants us the same sound quality?

In terms of amplifiers, much closer than 20 years ago. I think there are some that are there right now.

 

[microstrip]

In terms of amplifiers, much closer than 20 years ago. I think there are some that are there right now.

Who???

 

[microstrip]

A lot that I have gleaned from LAMM regarding his model fits pretty well with the model developed by Cheever in 2001. They are both roughly aligned with the musings of Jean Hiraga. While this will never satisfy everyone…there is too much variance in the data and humans in general, it does provide a very good staring point that should sound more natural to most listeners.

Nice to learn you technically know what is Vladimir Lamm model - all the Lamm experts in WBF are not so knowledgeable. Can give us some details on it and explain us in what points they are aligned with the TAD models of Cheever and musings of Hiraga?

 

[PeterA]

Nice to learn you technically know what is Vladimir Lamm model - all the Lamm experts in WBF are not so knowledgeable. Can give us some details on it and explain us in what points they are aligned with the TAD models of Cheever and musings of Hiraga?

Who are all the LAMM experts on WBF? I only see very enthusiastic owners and two of them are dealers.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Maybe start a new thread about your Lamm topic, as Lamm models and circuits are not related to Roy’s article?

 

[microstrip]

Maybe start a new thread about your Lamm topic, as Lamm models and circuits are not related to Roy’s article?

Just preparing your future move to Lamm and vintage horns - the AS2000 will ask you every morning about the cousins!

 

[microstrip]

Who are all the LAMM experts on WBF? I only see very enthusiastic owners and two of them are dealers.

Well, I expect a dealer to be an expert in what he sells and enthusiasts to know a lot about the brands they love!

 

[PeterA]

Well, I expect a dealer to be an expert in what he sells and enthusiasts to know a lot about the brands they love!

You implied that there are a lot of Lamm experts on WBF but you’re not willing to answer my question.

I’ll answer yours. It is all relative. I don’t expect a LAMM dealer to fully understand the measurements and testing Vladimir Lamm made in Russia on his listening subjects and taking that information and creating an amplifier circuit out of it. I do not expect all dealers to be able to design amplifier circuits.

I don’t know what you mean about enthusiasts knowing a lot about the equipment they own. I listened to various models and made my choices based on the ones I thought sounded best with the rest of the gear. I’m one of the only people who owned a Micro Seiki SX 8000 and directly compared it to the American Sound and the AS 2000. I only know of two other people who have made that comparison. Does that mean I know a lot about those turntables? Not really. I have an understanding of how they sound different and an appreciation of how to put them together and set them up.

 

[microstrip]

(...) - all the Lamm experts in WBF are not so knowledgeable. (...)

You implied that there are a lot of Lamm experts on WBF but you’re not willing to answer my question (...)

Sorry Peter, but in my sentence "all" means "the whole group of" not "many". And yes, my apologies, considering you are not able to debate or interested in my main subject I am not interested in your question. I was debating concepts, not particular people.

 

[PeterA]

Sorry Peter, but in my sentence "all" means "the whole group of" not "many". And yes, my apologies, considering you are not able to debate or interested in my main subject I am not interested in your question. I was debating concepts, not particular people.

You are operating on the premise that there is “a whole group of LAMM experts on WBF”. Then you say those experts, whom you will not identify but you define them as experts, they “are not so knowledgable.” How can an expert not be knowledgeable? I cannot debate your concept because it makes no sense to me.

 

[microstrip]

You are operating on the premise that there is “a whole group of LAMM experts on WBF”. Then you say those experts, whom you will not identify but you define them as experts, they “are not so knowledgable.” How can an expert not be knowledgeable? I cannot debate your concept because it makes no sense to me.

Please integrate my words with the original morricab technical post I was answering - it shows the concept we are debating. You are distorting the sense of my words quoting short parts out of context.

 

[morricab]

Nice to learn you technically know what is Vladimir Lamm model - all the Lamm experts in WBF are not so knowledgeable. Can give us some details on it and explain us in what points they are aligned with the TAD models of Cheever and musings of Hiraga?

I did not say I technically know his model. There were some interviews I remember reading that mentioned some salient points that aligned well with what the others came up with before and after…

 

[morricab]

V

Just preparing your future move to Lamm and vintage horns - the AS2000 will ask you every morning about the cousins!

You sound jealous…just go to Utah…you already have the ML3s…

 

[andromedaaudio]

Yeah that would be cool micro in Utah .
Id say keep the 50 K in the lamms and flip the wilsons for either Kharmas ( or may be Horns ).
DDK can sort him out with both lol.

Micro do you still have the Lamm ref pre ?

 

[Lagonda]

Yeah that would be cool micro in Utah .
Id say keep the 50 K in the lamms and flip the wilsons for either Kharmas ( or may be Horns ).
DDK can sort him out with both lol.

Micro do you still have the Lamm ref pre ?

As long as Micro does not go rock climbing with David while lecturing about the superiority of digital ! There is a long way down from a mountain !

 

[andromedaaudio]

As long as Micro does not go rock climbing with David while lecturing about the superiority of digital ! There is a long way down from a mountain !

May be in person everything will be fine .
Besides the fact that humanity has faced bigger problems then the digital versus analogue issue .
Its all relative lol

 

[Atmasphere]

Who???

That seems a loaded question. At this point I think you know that we have a class D amp that has distortion spectra like a tube amp and sounds like one too although it sounds more transparent to me than any tube amp I've heard, owing to lower distortion.