New Q3/mini M-Pro?

[andromedaaudio]

??? seems you are indeed right ack , and they admit basically it was a wrong idea.
Never seen it in a high quality design before., a tiny midrange membrane following a midrange signal is easily distorted by large woofer pressure playing at a lower freq with much more pressure
It will also affect high spls imo , as the mid will get distorted already long before the woofers do

 

[Elberoth]

If you want to have a meaningful and intelligent conversation post a picture.

I have a better idea. Lets put the money where the mouth is - let's make a bet. If there is a subenclosure (like in all hi-end speakers), you will send me a carate of single malt. If there isn't one, I will send you 10 crates.

Deal ?

 

[cannata]

??? seems you are indeed right ack , and they admit basically it was a wrong idea.
Never seen it in a high quality design before., a tiny midrange membrane following a midrange signal is easily distorted by large woofer pressure playing at a lower freq with much more pressure
It will also affect high spls imo , as the mid will get distorted already long before the woofers do

Disappointed to see you, a "part time speakermanufacturer", join the "ill informed" Have you seen the THD and frq response on the S5 (
http://www.soundstage.com/index.php...atid=77:loudspeaker-measurements&Itemid=153)? Do you think it will look like that if the mid shares the bass compartment? Just because in some review someone was explaining what a mid range compartment do, does not mean that this is the first loudspeaker to actually uses it (btw, ack, nice manipulation of quotes, luckily, Google does count the period after a sentence).

 

[microstrip]

I have a better idea. Lets put the money where the mouth is - let's make a bet. If there is a subenclosure (like in all hi-end speakers), you will send me a carate of single malt. If there isn't one, I will send you 10 crates.

Deal ?

Adam,

Sorry to spoil your attempt to fill your cellarette but all this is due to a misinterpretation of the Magico claims - they refer to the "specially shaped sub-enclosure fashioned from a polycarbonate resin" as if it was something revolutionary, but this is is just a technique used by many manufacturers. IMHO it is what is causing this confusion.

My home built 40 years old KEF speakers used the special shape of a multi-section PVC drain to built the midrange chamber. The reason was just avoiding the resonance of a cylindrical tube.

 

[WDW]

We have a pair of Q3, driving them with the paired Devialet that make the D400. This 70K a pair is so far beyond our current budget as to be laughable but, even ignoring the now sadly downward market that a used Q series can look to, (end of the Q's) these must be exceptional.
There are pockets, very small, within the fabulous window that these speakers present and wonder what these fabulous artist/speaker/guys/gals are up to.
If I had the readies, sign me up.....!!!!

 

[Elberoth]

Disappointed to see you, a "part time speakermanufacturer", join the "ill informed"

+1

My first thought as well.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Well c mon guys , somebody brought it up not me ,someone is either wrong or right here , be it a magazine or whatever
There seems to be only one solution here , somebody who owns this particular model takes a screwdriver or imbusset takes the unit out takes a pic and settles this like a man once and for all

Disclaimer : dont know about warranty issues after that .

 

[Elberoth]

Adam,

Sorry to spoil your attempt to fill your cellarette but all this is due to a misinterpretation of the Magico claims - they refer to the "specially shaped sub-enclosure fashioned from a polycarbonate resin" as if it was something revolutionary, but this is is just a technique used by many manufacturers. IMHO it is what is causing this confusion.

My home built 40 years old KEF speakers used the special shape of a multi-section PVC drain to built the midrange chamber. The reason was just avoiding the resonance of a cylindrical tube.

I know, I know If anything, I'm only surprised that any audiophile would insist it is otherwise.

If the midrange wasn't in the separate chamber, it would pop out on a first bass impulse. Just imagine how much air two 10" extremely powerful woofers can push. It is a simple logic. I'm not getting why it is so difficoult to visualise, even for those with zero knowledge about speaker design ...

And of course you are right. The whole concept of having a separate enclosure for the mid driver is decades old. Every manufactuer has been using it. I'm not even shure you can buy a 3-way without one ... unless it is an open baffle design or $5 boom-box from China.

 

[Elberoth]

Well c mon guys , somebody brought it up not me ,someone is either wrong or right here , be it a magazine or whatever
There seems to be only one solution here , somebody who owns this particular model takes a screwdriver or imbusset takes the unit out takes a pic and settles this like a man once and for all

There is no right or wrong. There is only one way it can be done. And beeing a 'part time speakermanufacturer' you should know better there are easier ways to check that. Just play a bass test tone (say 30Hz) and see if the midrange moves. Afterall, this is a sealed design, so mid would literally pop out if there was no hermetic seal between the two.

No need to disassemble anything. I would do it myself, by my S5s are gone.

 

[andromedaaudio]

I think my test is better leaves no forumsdiscussion open , some mids have a low enough resonance freq to still move at that freq , it might be -10 db down but still

 

[Elberoth]

I think my test is better leaves no forumsdiscussion open , some mids have a low enough resonance freq to still move at that freq , it might be -10 db down but still

That is true. But if it moves, it would move only very slightly, not pop out (due to the fact that filters do not have infinite slopes, so mid drivers also play some bass, although at the very attenuated level: the more attenuated the further away the bass freq is from the crossover point). The mid driver has much less cone area than the 2 bass drivers (like 1/6 or 1/8th - I don't have the time to do the math), so if there wasn't a seal between them a 1mm movement of the bass drivers would displace so much air that the mid would have to move by 6-8mm to compensate (if it had that much excursion).

 

[andromedaaudio]

Yes , agreed , in a passive x over there is always overlap no matter how steep the slopes are chosen , and where do we define bass freq ?? if we say less then 200 - 300 hz is bass then i assume in a lot of designs both the mid and bass unit produce bass output.
I heard the S 5 s bass at a dealer half a year ago , on analogue vinyl and octave amps , sounded very good

 

[ack]

On the M3: it looks like the bass/mid drivers are even more advanced than the M-Pro

The newly designed Magico six-inch midrange and seven-inch bass driver cones found in the M3 are both manufactured from Multi-Wall carbon XG Nanographene and a new proprietary ultra-stiff carbon weave which is 20% lighter and 300% stiffer than the cone material used in previous Magico loudspeaker offerings.

 

[ack]

(btw, ack, nice manipulation of quotes, luckily, Google does count the period after a sentence).

No idea what you are talking about?!?? Period after a sentence? Manipulation? I did cut out parts of the S3 article to focus on the key point, but the link is there for you to explore. But you don't need that at all - Magico's own write-up in the S5 MkII is all you need. Prove me wrong with an image.

 

[cannata]

...Prove me wrong with an image.

We already showed you quite a few images of the speakers you questioned first (but you are obviously the type of guy who dispute an image as well ). Here is another one, btw, clear as it can be, not that I think it will change your mind:

 

[ack]

We've seen that, and I said it doesn't look like the midrange is hermetically sealed, mentioned holes in the plates, etc; then we shifted to the S5 MkI and would like to see a picture of that. But I think I am done with this discussion, as I have better things to do, and I am sure so do you.

 

[cannata]

We've seen that, and I said it doesn't look like the midrange is hermetically sealed, mentioned holes in the plates, etc; then we shifted to the S5 MkI and would like to see a picture of that. But I think I am done with this discussion, as I have better things to do, and I am sure so do you.

I don't think we showed you this one (You are so locked in your position, are you even looking at what we are sending and saying??), it clearly shows the different compartments. I don't see any holes here, and I can assure you they are hermetically sealed, as said, they will not work otherwise. BTW, if you are still not convinced, email or call Magico, I am sure they will be able to clarify things for you (or maybe not even ).

 

[andromedaaudio]

Fantastic design seing another pic , it is quite the work of a perfectionist , probably the reviewer got mixed up or whatever, what was the model in question actually , this looks like a Q 5 or something

 

[Elberoth]

We've seen that, and I said it doesn't look like the midrange is hermetically sealed, mentioned holes in the plates, etc; then we shifted to the S5 MkI and would like to see a picture of that. But I think I am done with this discussion, as I have better things to do, and I am sure so do you.

What about my bet ? It is still valid. You are not chickening out, are you ?

Be a man.

 

[PeterA]

Any impressions from Munich about this speaker? Photos?