Mr. Measurement reviews the XP-30

[audioarcher]

I have been very happy with the equipment I have that has external power supplies. Only drawback is the extra space it takes up. The only eq I have that does not have an external PS is my amps. I have taken steps to decouple the transformer inside the amps though.

 

[rockitman]

I have been very happy with the equipment I have that has external power supplies. Only drawback is the extra space it takes up. The only eq I have that does not have an external PS is my amps. I have taken steps to decouple the transformer inside the amps though.

yes, the XP-30 3 chassis unit is rather spacious. I'm looking forward to the 2 box XS coming out this fall or there abouts and gaining an extra shelf.

 

[audioarcher]

yes, the XP-30 3 chassis unit is rather spacious. I'm looking forward to the 2 box XS coming out this fall or there abouts and gaining an extra shelf.

Will the new XS preamp use the new transistors Pass has been talking about lately?

 

[rockitman]

Will the new XS preamp use the new transistors Pass has been talking about lately?

The SIT's ? I hope so. For double the price, there better be a clear sonic advantage. Knowing Nelson, I don't think he would introduce a pre at that price unless it really delivered. I will get a no risk trial, none the less.

 

[LL21]

I thought the exploration of the pros and cons of multiple components vs. integration was potentially a very interesting, enlightening discussion. Does anyone know of any comprehensive testing/comparisons that have been done? Do separate boxes typically measure with significantly lower noise than very well-engineered integrated units? I know what the conventional wisdom says; logic can challenge that wisdom. What does the data say? Anyone know?

Tim

Tim,

I think most of the time it is a question of separating the power supplies, distance and direction between noise sources and the amplifying circuits. In order to keep the same characteristics you would end with a very large and heavy box, that would be very difficult to assemble, manipulate and service. There is nothing miraculous in separate boxes, just better engineering.

Considering measurements we still have not agreed on the measurements that have correlation with sound quality, so I will skip this one.

Looking back at CJ...they did have a 3-box preamp years ago. The later ARTs were all 2 box. Their latest GAT is 1 box (and crammed to the rafters inside). But by universal accounts from everyone i could speak with who owned and/or reviewed both ART 3 and GAT...the GAT is superior and (subjectively) quieter. And in my system with 95db speakers, when i turn it on, if i have new tubes, i have to stand next to the speaker with my ear turned to the tweeter to hear it. No hum. A whisper of hiss at 3 inches in a silent room...i can stand next to the speaker at volume 1 and still hear the music louder than the hiss.

Clearly, great stuff can be done in 1, 2 and 3 boxes. In the end, the question is if the same designer went 'all out' on both a 2box and 1box, without regard to cost...purely sound quality, etc....which would be better? Many manufacturers seem to lean towards separate PSU. Esoteric (digital), Zanden, Audio Note, Pass, Krell Pre, Audio Research Ref Anniversary, Robert Koda, Wavac, Vitus, Gryphon, etc... I have personally heard the benefits of shielding from RFI, EMI...so is it better in separate boxes? seems logical.

 

[microstrip]

Looking back at CJ...they did have a 3-box preamp years ago. The later ARTs were all 2 box. Their latest GAT is 1 box (and crammed to the rafters inside). But by universal accounts from everyone i could speak with who owned and/or reviewed both ART 3 and GAT...the GAT is superior and (subjectively) quieter. And in my system with 95db speakers, when i turn it on, if i have new tubes, i have to stand next to the speaker with my ear turned to the tweeter to hear it. No hum. A whisper of hiss at 3 inches in a silent room...i can stand next to the speaker at volume 1 and still hear the music louder than the hiss.

Clearly, great stuff can be done in 1, 2 and 3 boxes. In the end, the question is if the same designer went 'all out' on both a 2box and 1box, without regard to cost...purely sound quality, etc....which would be better? Many manufacturers seem to lean towards separate PSU. Esoteric (digital), Zanden, Audio Note, Pass, Krell Pre, Audio Research Ref Anniversary, Robert Koda, Wavac, Vitus, Gryphon, etc... I have personally heard the benefits of shielding from RFI, EMI...so is it better in separate boxes? seems logical.

Lloyd,

Just to add some details. The 3 box preamplifier was really a four box one - the premier Seven had two separate power supplies in different boxes, but held together with a common face plate, and two separate mono main units. It had a phono section and sounded better if the power supply was placed at some distance from the other sections.

As far as I remember the Art was a dual mono unit with separate power supplies, but the power supply was placed in the same box with the tubed section. The only connection between the two sectionswas a data link , in order to use the common remote. And I know of a few users who state that they prefer the ART series 3 (latest version) to the GAT.

IMHO what designers are looking with separate boxes is for ultimate sound quality, not for measured signal to noise ratios or whispers. And as you say, in the end what matters is the result, not the tactics.

 

[Sammy T]

I had no extra space for a three chassis preamp set up . So the Ayre KXR line stage won my vote.

 

[microstrip]

I had no extra space for a three chassis preamp set up . So the Ayre KXR line stage won my vote.

Space induced expectation bias ...

 

[LL21]

Lloyd,

Just to add some details. The 3 box preamplifier was really a four box one - the premier Seven had two separate power supplies in different boxes, but held together with a common face plate, and two separate mono main units. It had a phono section and sounded better if the power supply was placed at some distance from the other sections.

IMHO what designers are looking with separate boxes is for ultimate sound quality, not for measured signal to noise ratios or whispers. And as you say, in the end what matters is the result, not the tactics.

Wow...four boxes...can you imagine that with a Wavac 833 (6 boxes) and a Zanden digital set (4 boxes)...14 boxes before we start looking at network cable boxes, power conditioners, etc!

 

[microstrip]

Wow...four boxes...can you imagine that with a Wavac 833 (6 boxes) and a Zanden digital set (4 boxes)...14 boxes before we start looking at network cable boxes, power conditioners, etc!

Lloyd,

How many audio boxes must a man own
Before you call him an audiophile?

 

[LL21]

Lloyd,

How many audio boxes must a man own
Before you call him an audiophile?

by any rational definition...'more than he needs'

 

[Frank750]

Pass Labs is now taking orders for the XS preamp. First shipments scheduled for July. Price is $38,000.00

 

[rockitman]

Pass Labs is now taking orders for the XS preamp. First shipments scheduled for July. Price is $38,000.00

Congrats Frank !

Maybe I won't hold out till the winter...

 

[PeterA]

Pass Labs is now taking orders for the XS preamp. First shipments scheduled for July. Price is $38,000.00

Frank, does this mean you ordered one?

 

[Frank750]

Frank, does this mean you ordered one?

Zero willpower Peter. Yes I did. Obviously I haven't heard one. Going on faith after my experience with the XS300.

 

[Sammy T]

XP 30 for trade in?

 

[Frank750]

XP 30 for trade in?

Yes

 

[Sammy T]

Reno HiFi has always been good to me.

 

[Frank750]

Reno HiFi has always been good to me.

I have a local dealer here in the Chicago area, Quintessence Audio, who has always done a great job for me. I support him whenever possible and he carries the Pass Labs line so I'll work with him.

 

[PeterA]

I have a local dealer here in the Chicago area, Quintessence Audio, who has always done a great job for me. I support him whenever possible and he carries the Pass Labs line so I'll work with him.

Frank, I met Mick at Quintessence when I drove there from Boston to audition and then to buy a used pair of Magico Mini 2s which he kindly agreed to set up in his store. He had sold them to a client and was now willing to facilitate the sale to me. I bought them, paid the owner and then Mick boxed them up and loaded them into my pickup for the long drive back to Boston. I really enjoyed meeting him and found his dealership and his service to be first rate. At that time he only had the Pass XP-10 and XA30.5. I respect your interest in supporting a local dealer. Quintessence is a good one.