Alexis, I agree with your assessment and these are my favorite speakers to date. I don't believe Andrew has developed an active crossover for the R1s, only a few for the M1s. The M1s rally benefited from them for bass extension, but this is not so much a need with the R1s. Regardless you should write to TAD and encourage them to develop active speakers. I'm certain Andrew is very keen on active crossovers, but the feeling at most consumer speaker companies is that there is no market for active crossovers.
Listening amp candidates for R1s
- Thread starter Eli08
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I'll write soon to Andrew.
A remarque to the internal crossover parts. All the caps are signed with "custom design" so I presume they are planned for the acoustic plan of this speaker. apparently they are solen, but who knows..
But... in the middle, between the mid and the tweeter xover part there is a resistor, bolted to the big alu heatsink. It is a 5,1 Ohm and 50W (!) rating.
I am aware that a xover of this quality should not be touched, because it expresses the thought of one of the best audio designers of the moment.
But that single heavy duty resistor (certainly not famous for sound quality), in my opinion should be changed.
I've tried using a resistor of the same value of a very famous producer of silver graphite resistor, with poor results, in terms of dynamic.
Then I tried it with two resistors in parallel Mundorf Supreme, in order to arrive at the value of 5.1 Ohm, 40 W
It has opened up a world. Difficult to express in words, the improvement of all parameters, image deeph, speed, lack of grain in the upper midrange, is simply asthonishing.
The dreaded bite of beryllium? There is no more.. literally melted like snow in the sun.
Its 'a change easily reversible, it takes just a few minutes .. and very little money.
And 'how to move from economic Chinese tubes, to expensive Telefunken NOS or Siemens...
i'll write to Jones, also to ask him about this issue.
A remarque to the internal crossover parts. All the caps are signed with "custom design" so I presume they are planned for the acoustic plan of this speaker. apparently they are solen, but who knows..
But... in the middle, between the mid and the tweeter xover part there is a resistor, bolted to the big alu heatsink. It is a 5,1 Ohm and 50W (!) rating.
I am aware that a xover of this quality should not be touched, because it expresses the thought of one of the best audio designers of the moment.
But that single heavy duty resistor (certainly not famous for sound quality), in my opinion should be changed.
I've tried using a resistor of the same value of a very famous producer of silver graphite resistor, with poor results, in terms of dynamic.
Then I tried it with two resistors in parallel Mundorf Supreme, in order to arrive at the value of 5.1 Ohm, 40 W
It has opened up a world. Difficult to express in words, the improvement of all parameters, image deeph, speed, lack of grain in the upper midrange, is simply asthonishing.
The dreaded bite of beryllium? There is no more.. literally melted like snow in the sun.
Its 'a change easily reversible, it takes just a few minutes .. and very little money.
And 'how to move from economic Chinese tubes, to expensive Telefunken NOS or Siemens...
i'll write to Jones, also to ask him about this issue.
You have replaced a resistor within the TAD x-over? Risky business... Have you not altered the speaker's balance by replacing it from 50W to a 40W?
In case no one else answers this:
The 5.1 Ohm is the critical parameter in the balance between drivers. The resistor wattage would have been at least slightly over engineered, therefore the 50W vs. 40W should not have an effect that your ear would hear or damage the drivers.
The quality & nature of the materials & design in this 5.1 Ohm resistor will be heard.
zz.
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I got lost in the discussion (nice thread!) - having heard TAD and DartZeel just under show conditions, and very familiar with Gryphon (owned quite a few) - I would strongly recommend the Mephisto to pair your TADs if you are convinced to take the SS route.
As for Tubes, I just love the euphonic sound of Jadis!
My two pesos!
As for Tubes, I just love the euphonic sound of Jadis!
My two pesos!
Alexis - did you take any pictures of your xover operation? Let us know if Andrew Jones gets back to you and voices his opinion on this modification.
If you speak with ultimate audio in Portugal, they love the Mephisto tad ref one combo!
My mind is VERY open to the idea of the modification but only if I decide to keep them.
Alexis, could you post a step by step DIY as well as the part numbers. This sounds like a very exciting upgrade to what is already a world class speaker. Has anyone noticed that J. Valin has recently commented about the TAD's. Even with all the new great spier speakers he has been anamoured with, I believe his comments elude that TAD's stand the test of time as one of the top performing speakers in the marketplace, rather than suffer the fate of other flavor of the month designs.
The Tad's R1 + Cr1 are real world class speakers. I am professionaly involved with some high-end distributors, and have the opportunity to hear the mayor part of top speakers on the market ( no names, please..).
But this is not surprising, considering the long story of Tad, and the highest quality of the woofers, drivers and tweeters used in the most famous recording and monitoring studios in the world.
Even today, the quality of the professional production of TAD does not fear comparison with any other brand of single components/speakers used in the consumer market!
I am not a tecnnician, and can only admire the fantastic project about the R1 and Cr1. The dual concentric beryllium speaker has not equals, and the woofer are from the same, highest, level.
the cabinet is beautiful and well made, it cost's a lot in manifacturing!
Still less I cannot understand the presence of a resistance of this (low) quality in a such crucial point!
You have to consider that all the sound for the midrange passes through this single component!
I can only repeat that the improvement obtained by this simple change, it is amazing.
Highs, midrange and even, unbelievably (!), on the bass quality.
This means that the quality of the project itself, but also of the major components such as dual concentric is really.. stellar.
If one is interested.. I can send a p.m.
I am not sure this is the right place for an un-official tuning project...
But this is not surprising, considering the long story of Tad, and the highest quality of the woofers, drivers and tweeters used in the most famous recording and monitoring studios in the world.
Even today, the quality of the professional production of TAD does not fear comparison with any other brand of single components/speakers used in the consumer market!
I am not a tecnnician, and can only admire the fantastic project about the R1 and Cr1. The dual concentric beryllium speaker has not equals, and the woofer are from the same, highest, level.
the cabinet is beautiful and well made, it cost's a lot in manifacturing!
Still less I cannot understand the presence of a resistance of this (low) quality in a such crucial point!
You have to consider that all the sound for the midrange passes through this single component!
I can only repeat that the improvement obtained by this simple change, it is amazing.
Highs, midrange and even, unbelievably (!), on the bass quality.
This means that the quality of the project itself, but also of the major components such as dual concentric is really.. stellar.
If one is interested.. I can send a p.m.
I am not sure this is the right place for an un-official tuning project...
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I'm glad you're happy with the results, but one concern I would have is that the stock resistors do have some inductance that has been otherwise accounted for by the other parts of the crossover and the replacements may not have the same inductance, so perhaps some other parameters of the crossover can change when switching resistors from stock resistors.
Hi
I would tend to rule out this hypothesis.
The inductive component in a resistance, even if true very low quality, is so low, that would not arrive to modify the response curve!
Not for nothing the best manufacturers of components (Mundorf, Mills, Vishay, Duelund etc.) did engage much in order to eliminate it completely.
My two cent's..
Alex
Well.... a few years (9) on from my earlier post (89) I moved on from TAD CR1s to TAD Ref 1 MK2. I still have the Halcro DM88 but in the meantime also tried the C600 and M600 monos. They came and went I'm afraid and I moved to a Trinity Reference system. The Trinity Reference gear, particularly the Power Amps, for me, are simply outstanding. I've tried many high end amps and never found their match (regardless of speakers). I've had them for a few years now (which for me is already unusual). I see no downsides with these amplifiers (or the pre or dac) and have reached a point where I have no urge to upgrade the chain (or speakers of course).
I post this because I think Dietmar deserves a lot more profile. Link to amplifiers here:
The Trinity product is not popular with dealers - price may have something to do with it - but one well known dealer was known to state that he needs products which customers can upgrade - but the Trinity gear is really a one time purchase.
Happy to answer questions.
I post this because I think Dietmar deserves a lot more profile. Link to amplifiers here:
The Trinity product is not popular with dealers - price may have something to do with it - but one well known dealer was known to state that he needs products which customers can upgrade - but the Trinity gear is really a one time purchase.
Happy to answer questions.
Recently I had the chance to listen to Nagra HD pre + HD power driving TAD R1-TX. The HD pre is equipped with the optional transformer-XLR. Front end was TAD D600. I have listened TAD C600+M700S in this setup multiple times and pretty familiar with the sound.
To my ear, Nagra combo delivered an extended yet delicate highs. Macro and microdynamic were good with plenty of resolution. The mid was opened and spread across the soundstage. The low end lacks the grip of TAD combo though.
However I am not too convinced that Nagra HD pre-power combo is better than TAD pre-power combo driving TAD R1. In my opinion if dissect each attributes (resolution, extended high etc), Nagra does better than TAD in some. But to me the overall presentation and synergy of TAD electronics and TAD speakers are hard to beat. With Nagra I feel the presentation is 'larger than life' and not as natural as TAD electronics.
Just sharing my view and YMMV.
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Very interesting. We heard a full TAD system in Pioneer Plaza Tokyo with the then Pres of TAD. Ref 1s driven by their reference digital and amplification. Naturally, there was no other equipment by which to compare, but it was great to have the opportunity to hear it set up by the designers of the equipment in their own listening room. Even the integrated base stand of the TAD mono amps is quite serious and purposefully designed...like the old Esoteric reference Japanese market-only transport.
The same dealer just got dealership of peak consult speaker. It will be interesting to listen to Nagra paired with peak consult.
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