Listening amp candidates for R1s

[Eli08]

I am considering starting listening sessions of some amps to see if I will get a material gain over the Omegas, which I otherwise do like very much.

My idea is, out of a list of suitable candidates, narrow it to make a small list of 3 or 4 and arrange for in home trials. Some of the names may prove difficult, but I consider it a most. I think I will focus in SS. I do like tube sound in some models but I already have tubes in the chain with the Ref 40 and having a big power amp with tube is too much of a trouble for me.

From listening sessions in the past plus gathering information here and there, some of the names that I have in mind includes:

the new boulder 2150 or alternatively the 3060. The now discontinued 2060 I listened in the past and did like it.

Gryphon Mephisto Solos or Colosseum Solos. Haven't heard them but got good opinions form people I trust and read good things of them. On paper also they look attractive.

TAD M600. Will probably try to listen to them in my system. Heard them in other all TAD system and didn't really like them over what I have, but will see in my system if things are different.

Momentum monos. Same as above.

Dart 458. Not sure about these. Do not have first hand experience with the brand. On paper they do not look that impressive, but then a lot of people here love them, and I got some good opinions on them, but also you get the opposite. Very extreme points of view on these. If I can I will listen to them home but may be difficult.

Anyone has fist hand experience with TAD R1 and the above brands/models? Any other model I should try to listen that you may have listened to with R1s and strongly recommend?

Thanks
Eli

 

[asiufy]

If you're "up there" price-wise, there's no doubt in my mind, darTZeel 458.
I'm surprised you found anything negative about them (other than the price, of course). The only negative post I've seen about those have been from Wizard, and only when he compared them to FM Acoustics gear, IIRC.


alexandre

 

[Eli08]

I will need to be able to listen to any of them in my system to be up there, but if I can and I like it over what I have, yes.

I haven't found anything negative about Dart. Never heard one. I have listened to what others say. Some in forums but also people I know. Most are positive but also I get negative feedback (not in absolute terms but in relative to other peers in that league). Most have to do with bass and power related / dynamics (again when compared to others in the same league). Also specs. But as said I do not have any experience with them.

Have you heard them with the R1s?

 

[asiufy]

No, but I heard them with Evolution Acoustics' MM3.

Since it has a readout in front, showing peak and average power, I saw it reach 1400W peak, and 900W averaged. I really don't think it lacks power...

To tell you the truth, personally I'd buy the darTZeel, but either the Boulder or the Gryphon are very good amps as well, and surely will handle your R1 just fine, and will likely be cheaper too.

One thing I can tell, from my experience with the darTZeel 108, is that those who don't like it, tend to prefer "coloured" amps. And since the darTZeel don't do "coloured", it puts people off.


alexandre

 

[Eli08]

Thanks for feedback. Will try to listen to them in my system, although it may be difficult to achieve. Actually in Europe, Boulder is as expensive as the Darts if not more. Gryphons are a bit cheaper but not much. But I do not think price has a direct correlation with performance specially at these levels.

 

[High Potential]

Would you consider adding Spectral and Pass Xs to your short list? I am very interested in how they sound with the R1.

 

[Eli08]

Hi HP. I would like to listen to as many as I can that look good in principle, but sometimes it is not possible since dealers may not be willing to do it if they don't know you.

Pass I think I may be able. Was thinking of the XA series. Will check with dealer. Spectral not even sure who carries it. May be harder.

Right now i just got the momentum mono delivered and playing. Just 30 minutes with them waiting for system to warm up. Will post first conclussions soon.

 

[Eli08]

Ah and HP, welcome by the way!

 

[dan31]

If you are purchasing in Europe I would add Soulution to the list. The new 500 series or a mix of 500 and 700 series if its an option. Good luck with your search.

 

[Eli08]

I am purchasing in europe. I am not too familiar with soulution besides what I haeve read, but my dealer told me a new model of the series 7 is coming out and he is bringing a pair for a client to listen, so I will get a chance as well to give it a listen. Not sure if these are already out or if they are coming though.

I was too tired to listen to the momentum tonight since it has been a long day, but they were playing for a few hours at a mid to high vol. So they settle and all that. They do get hot! I just turned them off, my hand could not be placed on them for too long. Much, much warmer than the omegas.

 

[microstrip]

WBF member Bigpond uses his REF40 with the Gryphon Mephisto Amplifier - you can see his system in Audiogon
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?vaslt&1221996957&openfrom&78&4#78.

I did not like the Dan D'Agostino Momentum Stereo Amplifier when matched with the REF40 in my system - IMHO the amplifier really needs the matching preamplifier to drive it. But I would not mind trying a Constellation Audio or a Pass XS amplifier. AFAIK Soulution amplifiers have an input impedance of 4.7kohm - they will kill the REF40!

 

[joeinid]

+1

The 458s would be killer in my opinion. My 108 turns out to be best so far. I've changed my mind on other amps. The Viola amps are supposed to be a good fit on the TADs as well.

If you're "up there" price-wise, there's no doubt in my mind, darTZeel 458.
I'm surprised you found anything negative about them (other than the price, of course). The only negative post I've seen about those have been from Wizard, and only when he compared them to FM Acoustics gear, IIRC.


alexandre

 

[Eli08]

WBF member Bigpond uses his REF40 with the Gryphon Mephisto Amplifier - you can see his system in Audiogon
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?vaslt&1221996957&openfrom&78&4#78.

I did not like the Dan D'Agostino Momentum Stereo Amplifier when matched with the REF40 in my system - IMHO the amplifier really needs the matching preamplifier to drive it. But I would not mind trying a Constellation Audio or a Pass XS amplifier. AFAIK Soulution amplifiers have an input impedance of 4.7kohm - they will kill the REF40!

Thanks MIcrostrip. The Mephisto is one of the amps I really will like to listen to on my system. They are up in the list in principle. Not sure how i will be able to do it since I don't think there is a local importer for the brand here, but I will talk to the manufacturer and see if something can be arranged.

To consider amps in that level, an audition of at least a week at my system is a most for me. Not being able to do so is a dealer breaker since it is a really big expense to undertake just by references. I think the idea of making a short list based on reading, recommendations and listening to them in other systems and specs is a good one, but to make the final decision among that few, in house audition is a most. Did you get the opportunity to listen to them with the R1s?

The Momentum I will have a preliminary opinion very soon. Yes Pass Xs will try to listen to them as well. THe XA I know I could; lets see if the Xs are available. Any experience with them? COnstellation may prove a bit harder.

YOu are right. Saw now the input impedance of the Soulution. That is not an option. A shame because they will be with my dealer ready to try.

Which amps are you using with the ref 40? Was also thinking o trying some ARC amps since they are easily available for a try. Problem is the 750 I think it is just not an option from a practical perspective due to heat, cost of maintenance and all that with so many tubes, regardless of how good they sound (i think they may sound fantastic). The 250 I will try it though.

 

[Eli08]

+1

The 458s would be killer in my opinion. My 108 turns out to be best so far. I've changed my mind on other amps. The Viola amps are supposed to be a good fit on the TADs as well.

Hi Joe. I asked about the 458s given good reviews and recommendation of people for them. However seems there is a huge waiting list to purchase them. So not sure how an in house audition is going to be possible. I just can't see how I am going to expend that money without a proper listen in my system. If for whatever reason I don't like it it will be a very expensive mistake...

What do you mean when you say yo changed your mind on other amps?

 

[microstrip]

(...) Which amps are you using with the ref 40? Was also thinking o trying some ARC amps since they are easily available for a try. Problem is the 750 I think it is just not an option from a practical perspective due to heat, cost of maintenance and all that with so many tubes, regardless of how good they sound (i think they may sound fantastic). The 250 I will try it though.

Mainly the ARC REF 150. I tried the REF250s and it had some more power but not enough to justify the extra heat and cost over the 150. Contrary to many people I prefer the sound of the REF150, it is more articulate and lifelike than that of the REF250 - it has more "magic". Perhaps soon I will try using two REF150s in byamp mode. The REF750 is a dream amplifier - a bargain as IMHO it sounds much better than the DartZeel 458, you could buy a spare pair and tubes for a life time with the price difference.

The big VTL Siegfried's s are also worth considering. They heat much less than ARCs and tubes last much longer, as VTL biases them at half the value used by ARC.

 

[Eli08]

I will be trying the 250 and see. I did listen to the 150 and it did impress me a lot. It was fantastic. That was with a pair of Max 3.

You are right with the cost of tubes if you compare with the Dart or others up there. It is also (or mainly) a problem of heat, plus potential reliability problems with so many tubes and so much power. I can see any given tube going down each month... (although I may be wrong; never had a high power tubes amp). If it wasn't for that, the 750 would be very high as well in my list.

 

[asiufy]

I know there's no accounting for taste, but I find the comment about the AR 150 x darTZeel 458 frankly absurd.
A friend traded his AR pre (Ref. 5) + AR 150 for the darTZeel... integrated! And got a considerable quality improvement.
But then again, if you like tubes, you like tubes, and so that's it.


alexandre

 

[Eli08]

He said 750, not 150.

I do see 750 could compete with the 458 (pure guessing; havent heard any of them but makes sense). The 150 clearly not, but neither did he said so.

 

[joeinid]

Hi Joe. I asked about the 458s given good reviews and recommendation of people for them. However seems there is a huge waiting list to purchase them. So not sure how an in house audition is going to be possible. I just can't see how I am going to expend that money without a proper listen in my system. If for whatever reason I don't like it it will be a very expensive mistake...

What do you mean when you say yo changed your mind on other amps?

Hi Eli,

I think 458 production is sold out at least one year in advance on at least 12 or more pairs of amps.

I've changed my mind in the fact that my Dartzeel 108 has been one of the most satisfying amps I've owned and will own. I have no intention of getting rid of my 108. After trying various amps on many speakers, the Dartzeel 108 is still my favorite SS amp. I still enjoy tubes and will own both. My Dartzeel 108, within its power rating and speaker compatibility, is an outstanding amp.

Believe it or not, my Dagostino preamp on my Dart amp, I feel, is a better combo than my Dart preamp on my Dart amp. I have some more experimentation to do but there was something intense and 3 dimensional that I was hearing with the Dag pre and Dart amp that I loved.

 

[microstrip]

(...) Believe it or not, my Dagostino preamp on my Dart amp, I feel, is a better combo than my Dart preamp on my Dart amp. I have some more experimentation to do but there was something intense and 3 dimensional that I was hearing with the Dag pre and Dart amp that I loved.

Joe,
I had similar findings considering the Audio Research REF40 (Anniversary). In my system I preferred with the NH108 to the DartZeel preamplifier. However when I owned a REF3, my preference was for the DartZeel preamplifier. Time goes by ...