Just got my bill for January's heath insurance, it more than doubled to $733, thanks.

[rbbert]

I still see no facts to disprove this points, everything points to it. Go to the exchange and check for yourself. Open the policy and see what's in it mandated by obamacare and how much of it you need. The difference is pre obama care, you had the choice to shop around and the option to buy or not, now you don't. That's what's offensive.

No one in this entire thread has come up with any positive facts to defend obamacare.

The facts are;

- obamacare doesn't provide health care its a tax.

- Government has taken over the healthcare insurance marketplace.

- obamacare took away our free market health coverage.

- People have lost their coverage.

- People's premiums have escalated.

- You are forced to buy what you don't like or want.

- People are loosing their primary care doctors.

- 1/5th of the economy is taken over by the government.

- People are forced by law to risk their life savings by divulging their financial identification numbers to strangers who could turn out to be convicted felons, and it did.

- $700,000,000 and counting on a website that doesn't work after, what makes you think any of it will.

- obama care is a law that affects 300,000,000 people yet it passed on a partisan basis without ANYONE reading it and supported by lies.

- millions of people including unions and government workers want to opt out of obamacare but only those with political ties seem to be arbitrarily given that right.

I can go on and on...

Forget the rhetoric, please dispute any of these FACTS and show me FACTS that actually prove that obamacare is good for those of us forced into it unwillingly. Factual reasons, I dare you!

There's so much misinformation in this post I can't tell where to start. so I'll just post a few facts

The Government took over health care years (decades?) ago, "Obamacare" has barely changed that.
No one has to buy from the exchanges. All insurance companies have to offer policies that allow pre-existing conditions, both the most contentious and the most important single mandate.
People are losing their primary care doctors only because the insurance companies "force" them too; it's only due to "Obamacare" if you believe their rhetoric.
State (not federal) government insurance commissions do have the ability to deny price increases by insurance companies; if pressed on this, the insurance companies usually resort to virtual blackmail by saying they'll stop offering policies in that state. Of course, only the big and wealthy companies can afford to do this; hmmm...
No one knows yet whether "Obamacare" will end up being good or bad overall, but the chances are excellent it will be an improvement on what we have now. The real question is whether it will be enough of an improvement to matter much, and most indications are that it won't be. So please, anyone who has the ear of an elected Congressman or Senator urge them to help try to find a solution; don't just try to return us to the dysfunctional system that has existed.
In most states (California notably excepted) there is a huge (bigger than Medicaid) group of working poor who have been unable to afford insurance, get Medicaid or pay for their needed health care. One of "Obamacare's" stated intentions was to give some relief (and access to affordable care) to this group, but it seems unlikely to be able to accomplish this.

 

[rbbert]

AFAIK not everyone qualifies for Obamacare

My youngest son didn't qualify because he is making too much money. If he were to stay with Blue Shield of California his premium was going to double with an increased deductible and fewer benefits. My youngest daughter wanted to keep her insurance but was told she qualifies for Obamacare. When she applied for another Blue Shield policy which is what we wanted for her (she's 24) she was declined because she has a history of back pain.

After some date in 2015 (I can't remember exactly) no company should be able (legally) to deny her coverage. As far as the premium increases, see if you can get an answer from the California Insurance Commission about why they are allowing this?

 

[ddk]

I must be missing something here...because I am under the impression that IF you don't want to use Obamacare, you can still go directly to the insurance company of your choice and BUY health insurance ( most likely at a MUCH higher premium, BUT perhaps not always). I checked this with Anthem Blue Cross and they were very happy to have me continue with them. ( In my case at a MUCH higher premium ...but everyone is probably different here).

Ultimately the insurance companies are the providers. What has changed is that the contents and types of policies available are made up of government enforced provisions, not what you might need or want. The insurance companies are now brokers of government policies and can not offer tailor made ones like before. If you had private insurance you're possibly out of luck and can't keep your policy and have to buy what's on the government menu now. You still have another year on your policy if it came from an employer before you're forced to join obamacare's insurance. The problem starts with the quality of obamacare policies, their cost and the fact that you're not allowed to not buy if you're not happy.

david

 

[carolkoh]

Just inserting a little levity.

"Thanks Obama!"

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/thanks-obama

 

[Andre Marc]

I just want to jump in hear and say that I have a tremendous amount of respect for Peter B professionally.

Having spoken to Peter on a few occasions he is really great guy.

As I said earlier, you would be hard pressed to find someone with as much dedication and knowledge about this hobby.

Let me extend a Happy New Year to you Peter!

 

[DaveyF]

Ultimately the insurance companies are the providers.

Yes and no.

What has changed is that the contents and types of policies available are made up of government enforced provisions, not what you might need or want. The insurance companies are now brokers of government policies and can not offer tailor made ones like before. If you had private insurance you're possibly out of luck and can't keep your policy and have to buy what's on the government menu now. You still have another year on your policy if it came from an employer before you're forced to join obamacare's insurance. The problem starts with the quality of obamacare policies, their cost and the fact that you're not allowed to not buy if you're not happy.

david

You believe that the prior system was better?? If that is true, all I can say is G-D help you IF you didn't have the money to either a) pay the exorbitant premiums IF you had a pre-existing condition ( assuming ( BIG ASSUMPTION) insurance was offered at all!) or b) had no insurance and had to face the possibility of going bankrupt IF you couldn't afford the bill. Good thing YMMV.
I'm off this thread---much more productive to go and listen to the system

 

[rbbert]

Ultimately the insurance companies are the providers. What has changed is that the contents and types of policies available are made up of government enforced provisions, not what you might need or want. The insurance companies are now brokers of government policies and can not offer tailor made ones like before. If you had private insurance you're possibly out of luck and can't keep your policy and have to buy what's on the government menu now. You still have another year on your policy if it came from an employer before you're forced to join obamacare's insurance. The problem starts with the quality of obamacare policies, their cost and the fact that you're not allowed to not buy if you're not happy.

david

I don't know, both my wife and I still have our moderately priced individual policies we've had for several years, and have each received at least two recent letters from the insurance company assuring us that we will be able to continue that way. Worth noting is that each year there have been a couple of (unasked for) benefits added, along with the usual annual price increase. Of course one thing I've learned in dealing with health insurance companies is that nothing is written in stone as far as they are concerned.

 

[ddk]

There's so much misinformation in this post I can't tell where to start. so I'll just post a few facts

The Government took over health care years (decades?) ago, "Obamacare" has barely changed that.

No misinformation, when did the government take over healthcare insurance for all in the past? when did our government ever force health insurance purchase in the past?

No one has to buy from the exchanges. All insurance companies have to offer policies that allow pre-existing conditions, both the most contentious and the most important single mandate.

Many like Steve's daughter who has been dropped by her insurer have no choice but to go to the exchanges. There's not much difference anyway, insurance companies aren't allowed by law to offer many of those policies that people had and liked. They could have just mandated the pre-existing conditions or provided those without current policies with some protections without having to dismantle everything!

People are losing their primary care doctors only because the insurance companies "force" them too; it's only due to "Obamacare" if you believe their rhetoric.

Is no one losing them because the insurance company was forced to drop the policy of the insured and those doctors aren't willing to accept obamacare insurance?

State (not federal) government insurance commissions do have the ability to deny price increases by insurance companies; if pressed on this, the insurance companies usually resort to virtual blackmail by saying they'll stop offering policies in that state. Of course, only the big and wealthy companies can afford to do this; hmmm...

Easy fix, allow cross border policies; but obamacare doesn't offer that either and you can't reject any more.

No one knows yet whether "Obamacare" will end up being good or bad overall, but the chances are excellent it will be an improvement on what we have now.The real question is whether it will be enough of an improvement to matter much, and most indications are that it won't be.

Maybe based on wishful thinking, and you're right as of now, all facts and projections paint a gloomy picture. So why put us all in peril by passing a law that no one read and knew what was in it?

So please, anyone who has the ear of an elected Congressman or Senator urge them to help try to find a solution; don't just try to return us to the dysfunctional system that has existed. In most states (California notably excepted) there is a huge (bigger than Medicaid) group of working poor who have been unable to afford insurance, get Medicaid or pay for their needed health care. One of "Obamacare's" stated intentions was to give some relief (and access to affordable care) to this group, but it seems unlikely to be able to accomplish this.

And what about the 90% who had coverage and were happy with it, we don't count?

david

 

[Ron Party]

Hi Steve! Hope all is well. Happy New Year to you and your beautiful wife.

BTW John the uninsured here are looked after the same as the insured with respect to ER, hospital admissions etc. Invariably they qualify for Medicaid (Medi-Cal in California) so IMO the uninsured often gets better than adequate care

As one who has and has had many, many uninsured clients, I can state with 100% accuracy this is not always the case. Many times, not only do the uninsured not receive better than adequate health care, they do not receive any care at all.

Indeed I have and have had many clients who need or needed surgery, let alone other health care services, but cannot or could not get any health care whatsoever.

 

[RBFC]

Interesting discussion. I'd like to offer wishes for a Great New Year's to all. I'd also like to extend WBF condolences to Peter on the recent loss of his mother ( from an earlier post of his ).

Lee

 

[ddk]

You believe that the prior system was better?? If that is true, all I can say is G-D help you IF you didn't have the money to either a) pay the exorbitant premiums IF you had a pre-existing condition ( assuming ( BIG ASSUMPTION) insurance was offered at all!) or b) had no insurance and had to face the possibility of going bankrupt IF you couldn't afford the bill. Good thing YMMV.
I'm off this thread---much more productive to go and listen to the system

I do have a pre-existing condition, the premiums were exorbitant but they're much higher now and because of the new obamacare deductibles attached to my policy I will go bankrupt if something catastrophic happened to my family. The average obamacare policy deductibles will make sure of that.

More importantly what if you don't have a pre-existing condition, have affordable insurance for your family, and want to keep it, why shouldn't you be able to?

david

 

[Steve Williams]

Hi Steve! Hope all is well. Happy New Year to you and your beautiful wife.



As one who has and has had many, many uninsured clients, I can state with 100% accuracy this is not always the case. Many times, not only do the uninsured not receive better than adequate health care, they do not receive any care at all.

Indeed I have and have had many clients who need or needed surgery, let alone other health care services, but cannot or could not get any health care whatsoever.

Hi Ron

and a very Happy New Year to you as well

I guess I was speaking from past experiences specific to the hospitals in which I was on staff. My biggest gripe and still so is how indigent people can come across the border pregnant and show up (as they did in my hospital) with absolutely no prenatal care or medical insurance. We treated them like any other patient and to my chagrin the hospital seemed to always get these people qualified for MediCal. However when Mrs Smith (who comes from a middle class family) whose husband lost his job due to the downturn in the economy presents to the hospital in labor, they too are treated identically BUT the rub is that these people who are citizens of the USA but have fallen on hard times don't qualify for MediCal because of their other resources such as car, house etc. These people are the ones who end up bankrupt because they are billed full tilt for every medication and procedure as they have no insurance which usually negotiates an agreed upon discounted fee for all of these services

Ron you might be speaking of Highland Hospital near you which I wont dispute what you say

 

[Ron Party]

Steve, I'm not referring to Highland. To state the obvious, there are a lot of needed health care services that are not provided in emergency departments.

As to the rest of your post, it reads like another example of the squeezing of the middle class.

 

[Steve Williams]

Squeezing is one thing but causing them to go bust is another

 

[rbbert]

Steve, it's always been different for pregnant women. Medicaid threshold incomes/assets are much higher, and don't forget that the "L" in EMTALA stands for "labor" (and that's not about having a job!)

David, as far as the government not being involved (overwhelmingly) in health care, I guess you missed the last 50 years of Medicare and then Medicaid, to say nothing of medical care for veterans, active duty military and their dependents, military retirees, Native Americans, prisoners (state and federal), and probably others I can't recall on the spur of the moment.

 

[Steve Williams]

medical care for veterans

Champus

 

[mep]

As I said before, those who can least afford it pay the most for everything. I can't count how many news stories I have seen on the major networks about people with no insurance being fleeced by the hospitals and paying 3x or more what people with insurance would pay.

I have had BCBS since I was in my early 20s and every single year my rates have gone up and you can't blame Obama for that. The good news is that my insurance is very good. However, I still dump money into a FSA account which is tax deductible to offset medical costs that aren't covered by insurance as well as having a separate dental insurance plan because BCBS doesn't pay sh*t towards dental costs. When you add up all three plans, it's a serious chunk of change.

 

[rbbert]

Champus

actually, CHAMPUS is mostly for active duty dependents without access to a military clinic or hospital, also for retirees but not other veterans. I was thinking of the VA system, initially for any veteran without other health insurance, now only for veterans with certified service-connected disabilities, regardless of other insurance (most now have Medicare, many Medicaid).

 

[ddk]

just inserting a little levity.

"thanks obama!"

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/thanks-obama

I'm levitating!

david

 

[ddk]

Happy New Year? I hope for all!