CJ's True work of Art, it's a passion nothing else!

Another Johnson

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I think Jeff will be around for the next Ten years.

I can say that finding Engineers interested in Audio interested in tube audio is outside the norm today. Most electrical engineering new hires across the US foreign students. US Collages do not teach vacuum tube technology. I work in the Sat Comm. industry and speaking from day to day experience. I bet they do in Russia!
Let’s hope you’re right about Jeff.

Regarding tube training, it is not really in the modern EE realm. It might be found in Electrical Engineering Technology curricula.

My class was one of the last to cover both SS and tubes in an engineering curriculum. That was in 1970. We had a hot dog young buck instructor fresh from his PhD in semiconductors.
 

Salectric

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I can relate @Another Johnson. My formal training in electronics was 3 years of electronics in high school ending in 1970. The classes were all taught by a former TV repair guy who focused almost entirely on tubes and tube circuits. At the time, I was anxious to learn about transistors, and not waste my time on ancient history, so it is deeply ironic that my system today is all tube. I owe Mr. Crozier an apology. It turns out he was teaching us the right stuff after all.
 

microstrip

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I think Jeff will be around for the next Ten years.

I can say that finding Engineers interested in Audio interested in tube audio is outside the norm today. Most electrical engineering new hires across the US foreign students. US Collages do not teach vacuum tube technology. I work in the Sat Comm. industry and speaking from day to day experience. I bet they do in Russia!

In fact, the tube knowledge needed to service CJ tube equipment can be taught to any audio electronics technician in an afternoon. The tube circuits are extremely simple - however most tubes are associated to a solid state local power supply. The design of this power supply is also very simple and can be easily serviced when there is a fault. I have owned all kind of CJ equipment for forty years - even Premier seven and ARTs - and the few times I had a problem I serviced them my self with parts supplied by CJ - Lew Johnson and family were wonderful very helpful people.

One of the many reasons why I have a strong positive listening bias ;) towards CJ is knowing that I will be able to keep my CJ equipemnt in perfect condition as long as I am able to handle a soldering iron. BTW, CJ equipment is very reliable, but no tube equipment can be more reilable than the tubes we put in it. Most of the trouble I had was caused by faulty tubes.
 
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Big Dog RJ

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The CJ website is pretty decent but I wish it had photos of the interiors.

The description of the ART88 doesn’t tell me much about why it’s so superior to previous CJ efforts. Haven’t they used nude Vishay resistors and CJ’s proprietary capacitors for many years? What’s different about the latest model?
That's a very good question mate!

In fact I agree, when you read through the other preamp descriptions, general specs and the brief write up... they all seem the same! Only thing that varies may be the tooobs themselves.

There is of course the ultimate test/ judgement, and that's the actual audition! Once you have heard the ART88 then you do realise the supreme level it's at. Then again once you've attended the demo, it's not an easy task to identify the ART88 straight away, simply because it gets out of the way! As a Wiseman once told me, the best preamp is no preamp!

The ART88 is extremely neutral, it doesn't add or remove any material from the original recording, it performs its main task of pre-amplification to the core! That's really about it, nothing more to add.

Looking at the specs and internal layout, unlike any of CJ's previous preamps, where they all use SS buffered Outputs, the ART88 is the only CJ designed preamp to use a full tube layout. There are no buffered output stages comprising of SS devices, just pure tooob finesse from Input to Output stage. Internally, you will find higher grade trannies, larger power supplies and higher voltage devices. However, that typical very highend layout is also found on the Premier 7, ART, ACT2, CT5, ET7S2, and GATS2. So no major differences here... so what's the big deal?

That maties is in the listening!

When the ART88 is partnered with other top tier gear in a well thought out system, as I said before, it's quite hard to pick out its attributes. It could be the source gear, the power amps plus speakers or cables and accessories... who knows what's doing what to recreate this fine level of playback synergy. That's where it gets interesting, every bit of control, soundstage layout, the effortless drive factor on the power amps, the ability to hold itself strong without any breakup whatsoever, doesn't flinch one bit and simply gets out of the way... now that's a bloody good preamp! And the ART88 is all of that.

Initially, I didn't think much about having an all tube preamp vs a hybrid design with tube inputs and SS buffered Outputs. If at all, I would have preferred the previous designs, especially after having owned the original ART preamp, both versions of the ACT2, the GATS1 and now a modded CT5. I'm more than happy with this one because it's a highly custom sound I've created, and I don't want to change anything at this stsge.

Only when I did get the chance to audition the ART88, holy smackaroons!!! She said... and that's all she wrote.

Like I said, the ART88 is no ordinary tube preamp or just another upgrade from the already well established CJ line-up. Oh hell no, this is one very extraordinary thing. It will reveal things in your audio spectrum like no other, it's not even funny. It elevates every minute detail onto a whole different dimension. The most challenging aspect of this particular preamp is that the rest of your gear better be on par!

There aren't any compromises at this level. An awful lot more can be written about the ART88 in the fashion of typical highend audio marketing... then all the top dogs start barking and drooling... and the "must have" syndrome begins...

In the case of CJ's newest ART series amplifiers, nothing fancy or schamcy has been written about any of it. What's the point?
I'd rather go listen and judge for myself. Those fancy write-ups I'll leave it to the well known mags and full-time Reviewers, afterall that's what they're paid to do.

In my case, I'd rather audition at length when I get that chance, even if it means having to wait a full year to make an overseas trip. It's fully worth it!

BTW, there's another chap on this forum who doesn't post much, simply because he's enjoying those finest tunes!
Goes by T-tsui, his system comprises of a full ART line-up of the ART88 and ART108A monoblocks driving the Magico Q7's with a full Nordost Odin Gold II supreme reference power loom. Now that's one beautiful thing I'd go and listen to and learn about how this new ART series amplifiers work in a top tier system like that.

I had the fortunate experience of listening to the ART series gear on equally outstanding systems. Ranging from the Magico Q series, ML Ren15a's & CLX's, Genesis speakers, AG Horns, and the French ribbon panels by Diptyque. That was my first time ever heard of this French designed panel. Wasn't really expecting any major differences between those and Alsyvox or Apogee's, which I've owned in the past. Oh my! Those Diptyque panels are something else, and the pricing is truly remarkable! Very accessible compared to most other top end panel type speakers or even other lofty dynamic driver types, like Genesis and Zellaton.

So, yes there's a remarkable achievement in what the ART88 preamp is capable of. The changes from the GATS2 are not subtle and with the ART88, it's not just the preamp itself, rather the entire ART series line-up, is at a supreme level! JF should be mighty mighty proud of his creations. I certainly would be.

Oh, for the love of tooobs... Woof!
RJ
 

Big Dog RJ

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On another woof for the road... I'm just wondering at this finest level of audio playback, what more can JF do with these designs. Looking at the sheer brilliance of this ART series gear and now he's just released another top of the line ART phono-preamp.

I really don't know how it could get any better than this. And yet he finds a way, with no fancy write up... What a legend!
Cheers, RJ
 

zermatt

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Big Dog RJ; This is a just secret but in 2035, the Grande Premier Series will be released. There is still lot of room for tubes and component parts to improve.​

 

tonytsui

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Since RJ mentioned me, perhaps I should contribute a bit here. Just a few hours ago, in another thread

Introducing Olympus & Olympus I/O - A new perspective on modern music playback​

post #1058, a pair of ART88 and ART108As are driving the Taiko Extreme system. I am using the Taiko server.

And yes I agree 100% with RJ's observation with RJ on the ART88. However, the ART108As, despite it's wonderful sound, do give out some hum from the transformers, from one of my blocks, and also one from a friend.
 

Another Johnson

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However, the ART108As, despite it's wonderful sound, do give out some hum from the transformers, from one of my blocks, and also one from a friend.
Sigh … The elephant in the room.
I fought this issue in four different buildings at three different sites.


Then there’s Matty’s case. We blamed the importer, but there is an inherent underlying issue. RJ is familiar with this one too.

I ended up finally abandoning CJ in favor of current ARC models. Then when the tube crisis hit, I added Burmester. I had Levinson for a while too. To my ears, in my system, if there’s hum, it “just doesn’t sound right.”

It is my intention to NOT stay in this thread. In my opinion if you’re considering CJ, you need to try to get an audition in your room. Fortunately there are CJ dealers (typically mom & pop type) who will bring the gear out for audition. I was considering the ART 88 and 108As and JF arranged for a dealer to travel 1200 miles round trip at his own expense to allow me to try them. Having been a small time dealer myself at one time, I did not follow through with this opportunity.

FWIW, I asked if any of the ground design wizards on this forum could explain what was going on


but no one offered any insight.
 
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Big Dog RJ

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Yes, I've come across other owners in other countries who've faced similar issues. However, as that very Wiseman told me, if there's a will then there's a way! Just make it work mate!

During my dealership years (98 - 2004) spanning the Sth East Asian region, none of us ever encountered a hum problem, and not ever once in my home town of Colombo. I had the full Premier series line up: Prem11A, Prem12's, Prem8A's, and a host of Premier series preamps including the ART, none of these system installations had hum issues whatsoever, and we installed a lot of CJ gear across the region.

Fast fwd that to 2010... considering the more modern gear, these hum issues started to pop up! I'm not sure if it's to do with simpler circuits, minimalist parts, hence no filters / fancy circuits or protection circuits to curtail hum or different countries electrical grids... I just don't know. By 2005 I had sold off the business in any case and migrated to Aus. So back in the customer's seat. I still have strong ties with all my previous dealer mates and the majority of them who own CJ gear don't have hum problems. However, the few who did have managed to re-route their gear and found permanent solutions based on their wiring house grid. That is a bit annoying, especially when you're installing Hi-Fi and have to ficus on that rather than heavy duty appliances, as electric stove tops, ovens, washers and dryers. Those are the appliances that require proper AC mains wiring and heavy duty CB's. Hi-Fi... uh?

So funny story: after moving in to our new place Sept 2019, I had sent my monoblocks for several SE upgrades and a few mods on the Class A bias operation. These mods were done over a period of two years, received the final version back in 2021, and on the right channel there was a bloody hum! I thought damn... now what? This is supposed to be top flight gear, ful SE upgrades plus Class A finesse... and little birdies are humming on one channel!

Not only was it little birdies humming around... I could also hear people talking from the left CLX! Radio frequencies were been picked up! I shouted to the wifey, "hey sweetie, come and have a listen to this...we're not alone, I've established alien contact!" They're talking to us through my CLX's!!! How brilliant is that?
She looked at me like I was retarded and said get that damn hum fixed! I said okay darlin, kiss kiss.

Anyway, I wouldn't tolerate any hum whatsoever, so I called in the experts. This was an outfit (special forces...) who specialised in electrical wiring and audio installations. Note: no special ops here, just a well known electrical company fully certified that's all... woof woof!
So they came out, took every component apart... even rewired a long dedicated line directly from the AC mains distribution board to the audio system then checked all CB's... and after a few glasses of water and orange juice, ah ha! It's your right monoblock maaate!

Ah, so I called up my techie and took this monoblock for a check up. It turned out to be a loose ground wire! That's it! The case is solved! Happily re-installed the amplifier back and no more tweety birds humming nor any aliens trying to make contact. In fact, pin drop silence!
I thought fantastico! Now I'm just enjoying those fine tunes!

Cheers, RJ
 

Big Dog RJ

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Big Dog RJ; This is a just secret but in 2035, the Grande Premier Series will be released. There is still lot of room for tubes and component parts to improve.​

Uh oh! You let the cat out of the bag...
Grande Premier Series, sensational!
2035 you say... hopefully my doggy hearing will be upto scratch and tail still wagging.

Woof! RJ
 

zermatt

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RJ;

I will let Jeff know you need that complete set of electronics of Grande Premier Series. Maybe we can push for the release in 2028.
 
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Another Johnson

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. I still have strong ties with all my previous dealer mates and the majority of them who own CJ gear don't have hum problems. However, the few who did have managed to re-route their gear and found permanent solutions based on their wiring house grid. That is a bit annoying, especially when you're installing Hi-Fi and have to ficus on that rather than heavy duty appliances, as electric stove tops, ovens, washers and dryers. Those are the appliances that require proper AC mains wiring and heavy duty CB's. Hi-Fi... uh?
This is the operative point. The CJ manuals say something to the effect that less than 1% of owners have ground problems, but JF has told me twice that he fields calls on this every day. The go to solution is to plug your whole system into one power strip … not on some fancy power conditioner or regenerator. Plug the power strip into the wall outlet. Before codes disallowed them, cheater plugs or other ground lifting tactics were recommended. Not safe.

If you think this is a solution, who should tell you different?

I had no hum issues with Levinson, Krell, McIntosh, Marantz, Cambridge Audio, Prima Luna, or ARC on these same circuits with the same appliances. There is something about how CJ handles ground that makes CJ more sensitive. If it also made CJ sound better than anything else, it might be OK. But in direct comparisons in my systems between 2020 and 2022, this was not the case … Levinson and ARC were both the hands down winners, and in 2023 my further move to Burmester has been the most ear opening yet.

The legend here is that CJ has a certain amount of “quirky charm” (a phrase from a review that I would attribute if I could remember who said it).

I carried a LOT of water in defense of CJ over 35 years. At this point I strongly advise people to try it before you buy it because it is easier to not buy something than to sell it after you’ve bought it. This is especially true if it has unresolved ground issues. I complained about hum from day 1 (on warranty). CJ did not want the amps back because “When they get to our place, they won’t hum. The problem is in your buildings. Stop using the dedicated 20 amp lines on a common ground bar. Plug everything into a $15 power strip.”

All the gushing in this thread is reminiscent of Charles Dickens who was paid by the word.

CJ has its dedicated fans. I was in that group for a long long time.

No matter the brand, caveat emptor and a home trial are always good advice. There is a reason that few (if any) serious bricks and mortar high end dealers in the US carry CJ. Since Ralph Spear retired, I can’t think of a single place to do a comparison with side by side dealer stock. The reason is that quirky charm.

Try to trade CJ on another brand… it is very difficult. You can trade with CJ, often generously. But you’re stuck staying in brand.

Seriously, CJ may be for you. But do your due diligence before buying. Don’t get suckered into it by glowing reviews written by people who have a long vested interest in the company and an investment in personal gear that they hope to protect.

You may fall in love. But marriage is easier than divorce. I am out of this thread now.
 
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zermatt

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Hum problems can mean DC on the AC line. There are devises that can address this issue. My PLC has this issue and this devise sloved that problem. Bill T of Music Tech rebuilt with better parts and wire.

 

Big Dog RJ

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AJ definitely makes a point here, and based on his personal experiences having owned the brand for more than two decades. I can certainly understand the drama... and frustration.

Having said that, the numerous gear and other makes I've owned plus all my dealer mates have owned as well, when it comes to a high level of musicality, not just performance, CJ has remained in all our systems in one form or another. That particular signature sound is what we all prefer, and no matter what gear we use and pases through our doors, it's CJ that remains.

At one point, I actually ventured off the CJ wagon and headed towards ARC, VTL and Manley Labs, including Melos, and Sonic Frontiers. Each time I listened to this gear, although quite good in every regard, I dearly missed that CJ gear. Even the wifey mentioned it, "why on earth did you sell your Premier 8A monoblocks!" And ART preamp!

After only heading to Aus, did I get back to CJ and now there's no turning back. Since 2005, I've been trying out various other gear along the years, even just recently to the point of creating a short list of SS amps when I plan to downsize from tooobs. My top 3 being: Pass Labs XA60.8, Vitus Audio SS-103 and Dartzeel stereo mk2.
Home trialled all of these on the CLX's and they were great! But none of them could make me as happy as my current CJ gear. So I've put the whole downsize episode on hold.

As mentioned in the above post, if you're AC mains is wired really well, and accepts every other type of audio brand without any issues, especially hum... then your grid is good to go!

I totally agree that before engaging in any high spend and experiencing hum, it's definitely the best advice to do home trials. Whether or not your dealer is going to arrange a home trial is another thing. Most dealers at that high level of gear may not readily have demo units or floor stock to pass around. In fact, over here in Melbourne, our very own CJ dealer & importer doesn't have any excess stock. The demo / floor stock is the one and only item/s being demoed... which you eventually end up purchasing! If you preferred brand brand new- items in packaging then placing orders for such in-box items are done only with either a 50 or 60% deposit, nothing less! Can't blame them because the way things are going over here, there have been numerous cases where customers order the items take them home and simply don't pay! Either they can't afford it or just a bunch of idiots! And chasing them to get the balance payments is a bloody nightmare! So now it's 50% deposit straight up nothing else. Anyway, this is a totally different topic sorry for digressing.

Getting back to the hum issues, I've also noticed the One type power board installation thing. I discussed this with my local Nordost distributor and they recommended I use the Qbase8 along with the QX4 units and other grounding systems by Nordost. So obviously when we moved into our new place, I got the Nordost crew to install these very same accessories. It worked wonders! Like I said pin drop silence as I'm typing this message, the music is on hold... nothing in the background other than kitty purring. Silly cat!

On another note, I just ordered the Qbase8 Mk3, which is arranged only after two months! Nordost hasn't yet installed an Aussie version. Anyway the Qbase8 Mk2 is mighty fine as is, along with the other QX units, and yes, everything is plugged into this ONE power board, except the ML BF210 sub. That fella has its own AC line.

As I've stated in my original title, I sincerely believe that CJ is a true work of Art, it's definitely a passion nothing else. A much loved personal preference, with quirks or not.

Cheers maties, and do enjoy those finest tunes!
Woof! RJ
 
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Salectric

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From the description of the hum issues, it’s pretty clear what the problem is. CJ evidently has not bothered to minimize susceptibility to ground loop problems. Electrically there is an easy solution and it doesn’t compromise safety the way cheater plugs do.

Safety requires that the earth tab on the IEC power inlet be connected directly to the component chassis. With typical unbalanced circuitry, the power supply ground and signal ground are also referenced to the same chassis ground. The PS and signal grounds can be connected to the chassis ground directly, but if more than one component is wired this way you have the potential for ground loop hum. The easy solution and widely accepted industry practice is for only one component to use a direct ground connection, usually the linestage, and all other components use a small value resistor like 10 ohms to connect the PS and signal grounds to the chassis ground. This resistor prevents ground loops between components yet still preserves the safety of the 3-wire power cord.

As I said, adding a resistor is simple electrically; however, it may not be so easy to do in practice with a component that has all of its circuitry on a printed circuit board. I have never examined a CJ circuit board so I don’t know whether adding a resistor would be difficult or not, but if somebody really likes the sound of CJ gear but has hum issues it’s worth looking into a buffer resistor.
 
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Big Dog RJ

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Ah! I do remember my trusted CJ techie mentioning a similar thing but only if highly required. In the majority of cases it wasn't an issue like I've outlined before. The handful of issues my mates did face were mostly to do with component layout / installation and internal loose ground wires (as in my case). Other than that tickety boo!

Perhaps T-tsui can benefit from such a mod... I don't know. One thing is that I wouldn't tolerate the slightest of hums, regardless of how good the gear sounds. So if there's a will then there's a way.
Cheers mate, RJ
 

zermatt

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What’s different about the latest model?

A: Better RCA connectors
B: Better tube sockets
C: Better PCB isolation
D: Better layout of signal tracings
E: Better Pwr supply design
F: Mosfets are not in the signal path.
G: Critical parts evaluation for sonic attributes in critical locations
 
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zermatt

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Uh oh! You let the cat out of the bag...
Grande Premier Series, sensational!
2035 you say... hopefully my doggy hearing will be upto scratch and tail still wagging.

Woof! RJ
RJ; I talked to Jeff F. We have reserved a set of Grande Premiere electronics for you. Stay healthy.................. good things are coming you way!
 
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Salectric

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F: Mosfets are not in the signal path.
From your wording, I suspect there is a Mosfet CCS on the cathode follower. Is that right?
 

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