John DeVore on the Grey Market and OCD Mikey

[hopkins]

I dont agree with you .
As i only have expirience in manufacturing LS , i take that as example

Lets not SQ , but just loudspeaker manufacturing / fit n finish / packaging /design / marketing / dealer distributor margins

Companies like Magico Rockport Kharma Wilson all have excellent fit n finish and such products are costly to manufacture
I m sure all their lower line models have very normal margins .
The top line products might be different but they dont sell many .



I d say start a Loudspeaker company and well talk back in a year 2

How does any of this relate to the subject matter ?

 

[MarkusBarkus]

the costs of high-end audio imbed higher profit margins? Justify that?

...why does it have to be justified? By anyone. To anyone.

If I would like to purchase the "product" you designed for the space station, how much will it cost me, and do you accept PayPal?

 

[andromedaaudio]

How does any of this relate to the subject matter ?

You re probably right , i did n t even watch the VID as its probably HIFI OCD gossip
I should

 

[Robh3606]

That was my point. High-End Audio electronics are easy and manufactured with garden variety components. You speak of Mil-Spec like that is something special. Ever looked into Rad-Hard parts? Ever work on hybrid semiconductor designs?

Come on man this two designs cannot be compared yet the costs of high-end audio imbed higher profit margins? Justify that?

Yes to all of the first paragraph. Mil spec parts are special no denying that.

Again you completely keep going past the fact that profits are directly negotiated in military contracts and companies can project their income and plan on that income to cover R+D, plant expansion and hiring as examples.

High end or and any small commercial enterprise can't do that selling piecemeal to uncertain buyers in an industry selling disposable luxury products.

They can't survive on the margins built into mil contacts. There is to much uncertainty.

Rob

 

[Carlos269]

I dont agree with you .
As i only have expirience in manufacturing LS , i take that as example

Lets not talk about SQ , but just loudspeaker manufacturing / fit n finish / packaging / design development / marketing / dealer distributor margins

Companies like Magico Rockport Kharma Wilson all have excellent fit n finish and such products are costly to manufacture
I m sure all their lower line models have very normal margins .
The top line products might be different but they dont sell many .

Ps Why did Andy payor sell Rockport , because it was such a goldmine , i dont think so .
He makes excellent products , but its a tough market



I d say start a Loudspeaker company and we will talk back in a year 2

...why does it have to be justified? By anyone. To anyone.

If I would like to purchase the "product" you designed for the space station, how much will it cost me, and do you accept PayPal?

Yes to all of the first paragraph. Mil spec parts are special no denying that.

Again you completely keep going past the fact that profits are directly negotiated in military contracts and companies can project their income and plan on that income to cover R+D, plant expansion and hiring as examples.

High end or and any small commercial enterprise can't do that selling piecemeal to uncertain buyers in an industry selling disposable luxury products.

They can't survive on the margins built into mil contacts. There is to much uncertainty.

Rob

Here I will spell it out for you, these are products that in the real business world would never be brought to market. These products in real commerce are not economically feasible. What the high-end consumers are doing is subsidizing bad business practices. There I spoon fed it to you.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Here I will spell it out for you, these are products that in the real business world would have never been brought to market. These products in real commerce are not economically feasible. What the high-end consumers are doing is subsidizing bad business practices. There I spoon feed it to you.

Now we certainly dont agree .
People who like SQ should be thankfull that Andy Payor took the time to design the Lyra or that Charles van Oosterum took the effort to design the Kharma exquisite classic .

Off course its probably not a very viable business , thats why i dont put much money into it, but we shouldnt condemn designers who do

 

[Carlos269]

Now we certainly dont agree .
People who like SQ should be thankfull that Andy Payor took the time to design the Lyra or that Charles van Oosterom took the effort to design the Kharma exquisite classic .

Off course its not a very viable business , thats why i dont put much money into it

And their consumers are paying for more than what they get. Are you in upper management? Have you ever taken part in an economics feasibility study for a project or product development?

 

[andromedaaudio]

And their consumers are paying for more than what they get. Are you in upper management? Have you ever taken part in an economics feasibility study for a project or product development?

What most of them do is something out of passion , money is only a word and numbers.
Nobody forces anybody to buy anything , so whats the problem??

 

[Carlos269]

What most of them do is out of passion , money is only a word and numbers

Yes and you must therefore accept that you are paying more than their inherent value.

 

[MarkusBarkus]

...what the hell is "the real business world" of which you speak? Aerospace? Cheap clothing made by Asian kids?

 

[Carlos269]

...what the hell is "the real business world" of which you speak? Aerospace? Cheap clothing made by Asian kids?

The companies in the DOW JONES, NASDAQ and S&P 500.

 

[Robh3606]

Here I will spell it out for you, these are products that in the real business world would never be brought to market. These products in real commerce are not economically feasible. What the high-end consumers are doing is subsidizing bad business practices. There I spoon feed it to you.

Who cares?? So what if they are??? Isn't that what luxury goods are all about??? Famous quote:

If you have to ask you can't afford it

Who are they hurting besides the buyers who seem to be all in???

People are free to spend their money as they like.

Rob

 

[andromedaaudio]

The companies in DOW, NASDAQ and S&P 500.

And then what ?
Then you have a lot of money and you made your share holders happy , but when you come home and want to listen to music all that awaits you is a pair of Jamos or Mission Loudspeakers.
Because nobody designed anything better , because it wasn t economically "viable "

 

[Carlos269]

Who cares?? So what if they are??? Isn't that what luxury goods are all about??? Famous quote:

If you have to ask you can't afford it

Who are they hurting besides the buyers who seem to be all in???

People are free to spend their money as they like.

Rob

Yes and you must therefore accept that you are paying more than their inherent value AND not try to justify it as there is no justification.

 

[Robh3606]

Yes and you must therefore accept that you are paying more than their inherent value AND not try to justify it as there is no justification.

Nonsense! A dollar is worth a dollar be cause we collectively believe it to be so. Value is in the eye of the beholder with luxury goods and if the buyer is satisfied your assumptions fall flat.

Rob

 

[Carlos269]

Nonsense! A dollar is worth a dollar be cause we collectively believe it to be so. Value is in the eye of the beholder with luxury goods and if the buyer is satisfied your assumptions fall flat.

Rob

It is obvious that we have NOT worked in the same industries and you have not reached the upper level of management to know about the economics tied to investment decision making.

At this point you are set in your ways.

I will leave you with this.: When I got one of my degrees in electrical engineering, one of the courses that we had to take was “Engineering Ethics”. That course would explain a lot of your misguided beliefs away. Go on Amazon and educate yourself on Engineering Ethics and I think that you will see my point a little clearer.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

Wow this thread has taken a severe socioeconomic turn. Personally I think capitalism rocks!

 

[Carlos269]

Wow this thread has taken a severe socioeconomic turn. Personally I think capitalism rocks!

Take a look at my high-end audio, mastering studio equipment and Porsche collections. I think the capitalism rocks also. Need to be ethical. I was under the impression that you work for a semi-conductor manufacturer. Do you guys not get ethics training?

 

[MarkusBarkus]

Personally I think capitalism rocks!

...yes, but it also does classical, jazz and various other denominations.

 

[bonzo75]

...yes, but it also does classical, jazz and various other denominations.

capitalism sounds like a dual FLH