Gary, I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying that while the transformer is technically inadequate it's most likely not an issue at reasonable listening volumes because my amps are Class A?
Is there something obviously wrong with my electrical?
- Thread starter MadFloyd
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Gary, I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying that while the transformer is technically inadequate it's most likely not an issue at reasonable listening volumes because my amps are Class A?
It is an issue if the specification reported is correct, and will also be influencing the performance-behaviour of all other audio electronics on the same mains circuit.
Those amps cannot draw less than 4.6amps each when operating within spec because they are Class A (eventually they could slide more to/switch to AB but that is still above the Class A operation of 4.6A for each mono amp - but your already hitting the transformer limit it seems), then also add a bit for the other audio equipment.
That said MadFloyd, it is worth measuring as suggested by Speedskater because it is likely they drop out of Class A before the stated 4.6A draw, which may mean you could be ok depending upon volume (finding some way to measure mains use will show this and threshold reached with louder music - will be a crude measurement but handy to know for now).
Cheers
Orb
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Don't laugh too hard at my think out loud: Why not unplug one amp and try just one channel? It should be below the amperage and you can see if that one side perks up.
I'm quite low level...sorry.
I'm quite low level...sorry.
The newer 'Kill-a-Watt' meters start at about $28 USD, they are safe and easy to use. They can provide a couple of hours of entertainment. I have an older model plugged in 24 by 7. My line voltage varies over a few weeks from under 115V to over 125V.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kill_A_Watt
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kill_A_Watt
I ordered this one to play with:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000RGF29Q/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Your 1kVA transformer is definitely not enough as suggested above by many. Class A is only 30% efficiency At most. That means at most each passlabs mono get only 150W. No wonder you got thin bass as you require a lot of current to produce bass.
Also what is the diameter of your transformer as I cannot judge from the photo. If the transformer is really 1kVA, it should be pretty small.
This is my Equitech 10kVA transformer. It is purely used for my audio circuit and nothing more.
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?16759-Equitech-Q-transformer&highlight=Equitech
Also what is the diameter of your transformer as I cannot judge from the photo. If the transformer is really 1kVA, it should be pretty small.
This is my Equitech 10kVA transformer. It is purely used for my audio circuit and nothing more.
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?16759-Equitech-Q-transformer&highlight=Equitech
I agree with this and Ack's comment. I have three identical 15' runs of JPS Labs In-Wall cable running from three separate 20 amp circuits in my main panel through the floor and terminated with a high grade Furutech IEC plug. Two are plugged directly into each mono block amp and the third is plugged directly into a conditioner which supplies power to my front end components in my rack. Essentially, DIY power cords running directly into the main panel.
Ian, great idea to start this thread. I hope it leads to a solution for your bass issues.
Ian, as long as we are spending your money I will also suggest going with the Pass X600.8 amps. These brutes will drive your M speakers without breaking a sweat. Don't get too hung up on the pure class A paradigm. These will run in class A for the first 100 watts before going to AB. While I haven't heard them, I have heard the X600.5 on the S5, and it is a match made in heaven. However, be careful you don't blow a M series driver. I bet they aren't inexpensive.
2kVA is still too small. Your equipments are such high quality. They deserve much higher ratings of transformers. Getting 10kVA transformer and you will never need to think about electricity.
Why don't you do yourself a favor and contact a Torus Power dealer and see if you can get at least a 20A rack mount conditioner loaner. There's 4 Torus dealers in Massachusetts.
http://www.toruspower.com/customer-care/dealers-and-integrators/
You need isolation and power.
http://www.toruspower.com/news/torus-power-stays-focused-high/
This one will even give you voltage regulation.
http://www.toruspower.com/products/north-american-avr-series-2/
Not enough power for you to run with permanently but at least you'd get an idea if you're headed in the right direction.
I'm confused. When I posted the pic of the 1kVA transformer it seemed like it would be just a tad under-powered. Now with twice the power it could still be starving the amps?
I realize that it's better to have more headroom but what I'm trying to establish is whether this new value could be responsible for lack of bass. I don't want to get any false hope...
I realize that it's better to have more headroom but what I'm trying to establish is whether this new value could be responsible for lack of bass. I don't want to get any false hope...
IMHO 1kVA is woefully inadequate for your amps, 2kVA is still woefully inadequate.
Orb is correct - I did not realize that your amps would slide over to Class AB. In that case, since standing Class A current is already 4.6A per amp, you are hitting the limit of your transformers already, and your amps would definitely be starved for current.
HedgeHog made a useful suggestion. Try playing one channel and see if you get better bass. However, if you do get better bass, it could also be a result of bass cancellation with two speakers. If the bass almost disappears, try playing the other channel. If you get better bass, one woofer in the first channel might be out of phase.
Orb is correct - I did not realize that your amps would slide over to Class AB. In that case, since standing Class A current is already 4.6A per amp, you are hitting the limit of your transformers already, and your amps would definitely be starved for current.
HedgeHog made a useful suggestion. Try playing one channel and see if you get better bass. However, if you do get better bass, it could also be a result of bass cancellation with two speakers. If the bass almost disappears, try playing the other channel. If you get better bass, one woofer in the first channel might be out of phase.
For sources, 1kVA is ok. For amp, you need at least 10 times of quoted power ratings. The power quoted of amplifier is for kind of steady state. If there is a quick transient or large dynamics music, the amp will draw large amount of current, the peak current capability is very important.
The other thing to keep in mind is how much instantaneous current an amp's power supply draws per cycle (when the diodes open for a brief amount of time), and that would be a LOT higher than continuous average. So if he can't adequately charge the power supplies' capacitors in the first place, I think the consequences are probably obvious.
MF
Really, 4 pages of consternation on what is obviously mis spec'd isolation devices and you're still trying to rationalize why they are OK for your system?? Worried about the cost of an electrician ?? PLEASE. Get your guy over, bypass the crappy isolation and get on with it.........
Really, 4 pages of consternation on what is obviously mis spec'd isolation devices and you're still trying to rationalize why they are OK for your system?? Worried about the cost of an electrician ?? PLEASE. Get your guy over, bypass the crappy isolation and get on with it.........
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