i was told before you start bothering with different AC outlets or power conditioning you should tighten up your circuit breaker box. I guess after awhile it gets lose and starts vibrating. Is this something I can do on my own or is it better to hire an electrician? Supposedly this makes a big difference in sound. After that you can change your AC outlets and possible power conditioning if you think you need that. I only learned about this 2 days ago. I had never heard about this before. I have only read about this one time. Is this something most people don't know anything about? Usually audiophiles will talk about anything that leads to better sound.
How do you tighten up your circuit breaker box
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Use an insulated screwdriver rated for electrical work. Electrical hazard foot ware would be nice. Knowing enough not to ground yourself with your free hand. Electrically insulated gloves. Or hire an electrician.
turn off computers and any other devises like audio.
-Turn off your main breaker on your panel - will be a large one.
-Unscrew the cover - make note that where the feed is coming in is still hot so don't go near that
-Use appropriate electrical insulated screw driver and tighten up screws that secure the wires - you might even find some loose from whom ever did the original install, don't offer tighten.
- put your cover back on
-put on the power
-turn back on electrical devises
I have assisted a few friends and was really surprised what was found
If you have any concerns hire a electrician.
-Turn off your main breaker on your panel - will be a large one.
-Unscrew the cover - make note that where the feed is coming in is still hot so don't go near that
-Use appropriate electrical insulated screw driver and tighten up screws that secure the wires - you might even find some loose from whom ever did the original install, don't offer tighten.
- put your cover back on
-put on the power
-turn back on electrical devises
I have assisted a few friends and was really surprised what was found
If you have any concerns hire a electrician.
"i was told before you start bothering with different AC outlets or power conditioning you should tighten up your circuit breaker box. ... Supposedly this makes a big difference in sound."
Before you do that, shouldn't you make sure the nearest power pole is well-set in the ground? Also, they tend to sway in the wind, inducing low-frequency pulses into your household power. You might want to add concrete around the base of the pole and add stiffeners up and down the pole to reduce wind-induced sway.
Seriously, assuming this is a serious post and not tongue-in-cheek trolling, while it is possible the box works itself loose, I can't imagine that impacting the sound. As far as the electrical service goes I have seen older breakers fail prematurely under light load, and it is possible the connections to the breakers have oxidized over time. You could use an insulated screwdriver to tighten all the screws, but if you are not comfortable with working around electricity get an electrician. Being dead can adversely affect your hearing, and repairing things in the house damaged due to strange power glitches can reduce your funds for audio-related purchases.
Before you do that, shouldn't you make sure the nearest power pole is well-set in the ground? Also, they tend to sway in the wind, inducing low-frequency pulses into your household power. You might want to add concrete around the base of the pole and add stiffeners up and down the pole to reduce wind-induced sway.
Seriously, assuming this is a serious post and not tongue-in-cheek trolling, while it is possible the box works itself loose, I can't imagine that impacting the sound. As far as the electrical service goes I have seen older breakers fail prematurely under light load, and it is possible the connections to the breakers have oxidized over time. You could use an insulated screwdriver to tighten all the screws, but if you are not comfortable with working around electricity get an electrician. Being dead can adversely affect your hearing, and repairing things in the house damaged due to strange power glitches can reduce your funds for audio-related purchases.
All the connections in the box should be tight, but "after awhile it gets lose and starts vibrating."... nope- that does not happen and is pretty ridiculous.
If its loose, it will get hot.
Generally speaking, 'hot' is not a bad thing when it comes to breaker boxes. Dangerous or lethal voltages are present with the cover removed! There are no user-serviceable parts inside. If not qualified, please refer to to qualified service personnel!!
If its loose, it will get hot.
Generally speaking, 'hot' is not a bad thing when it comes to breaker boxes. Dangerous or lethal voltages are present with the cover removed! There are no user-serviceable parts inside. If not qualified, please refer to to qualified service personnel!!
Not sure how this would impact sonics but one thing everyone needs to be aware of is a phenomenon called "cold flow". Mechanical connections with aluminum wiring will loosen over time creating points of high R and can result in fires...not pretty
Hello and good evening to you, gentlemen. Don, I have actually known folks to add such a brace to power poles (Used to work for Duke Energy) to prevent the loosening of connections. You may laugh but I have seen it done. What you will see above ground is a grey metal "thing" that sticks out of the ground that is directly connected to the bottom of the pole itself and goes down into the dirt quite a ways. They also use these to brace poles that have rot or are reaching the end of the usable service period of the pole itself.
One thing that folks may not think of is that the original technician did the job right and tight. On slightly loose or not super tight connections, tiny and various vibrations caused by traffic, earthquakes, transformers, machinery used near the breaker box, lightning, heavy machinery used outside near the proximity of the box, vibrations from low frequencies can over time all wreak havoc to what folks once thought was a solid mechanical connection. These slight vibrations can loosen connections over time. Add in what you had mentioned, oxidation, and you have a bad scenario for decent incoming electrical power. Yeah, it will most likely still run the vacuum, operate the microwave and TV but when it comes to higher-fi reproduction, these do have the potential to become audible. I had such a thing with a connection on one hot leg and a ground before. After removing the oxidation and re-securing the hot leg, no more grain or unwanted artifacts in the music.
While it may be illegal, whenever I work on anything within the main breaker box, I pull out the meter itself. With the meter gone, no electricity has the potential to shock you in any way, shape or form. This scenario does not change whether you are being fed from and underground or an overhead line. All potential voltage stops at the meter, this leaves you free and clear to work around the breaker box at will with zero potential for any electrical safety issues.....provided you know what it is you are doing once you get into said breaker box. Please note - This is NOT a recommended way to work on any breaker box. When I am done, I solder the lock back together and nobody would have ever known what I did.....unless they watched me do it.
The only reason I do things this way is because I have yet to find an electrician who actually cares about anything other than code. If I start to talk about oxidation, I immediately get the deer in the headlight look. They don't understand that kind of talk. Their philosophy? If it has within the acceptable range of 120 volts, their job is done. Nothing more for them to do. As an audiophile, that makes me cringe.
Making sure that things are no longer oxidized, that all connections are as tight as possible and that the ENTIRE grounding path is also not oxidized and tight definitely has the potential for better sound. You may not hear something that you never knew was there before. Just food for thought....
Tom
Older breakers often fail under a light load IME. We use machinery that tests the limit of the breakers (without going over the load at all) often. They fail in many houses, often.
One thing that folks may not think of is that the original technician did the job right and tight. On slightly loose or not super tight connections, tiny and various vibrations caused by traffic, earthquakes, transformers, machinery used near the breaker box, lightning, heavy machinery used outside near the proximity of the box, vibrations from low frequencies can over time all wreak havoc to what folks once thought was a solid mechanical connection. These slight vibrations can loosen connections over time. Add in what you had mentioned, oxidation, and you have a bad scenario for decent incoming electrical power. Yeah, it will most likely still run the vacuum, operate the microwave and TV but when it comes to higher-fi reproduction, these do have the potential to become audible. I had such a thing with a connection on one hot leg and a ground before. After removing the oxidation and re-securing the hot leg, no more grain or unwanted artifacts in the music.
While it may be illegal, whenever I work on anything within the main breaker box, I pull out the meter itself. With the meter gone, no electricity has the potential to shock you in any way, shape or form. This scenario does not change whether you are being fed from and underground or an overhead line. All potential voltage stops at the meter, this leaves you free and clear to work around the breaker box at will with zero potential for any electrical safety issues.....provided you know what it is you are doing once you get into said breaker box. Please note - This is NOT a recommended way to work on any breaker box. When I am done, I solder the lock back together and nobody would have ever known what I did.....unless they watched me do it.
The only reason I do things this way is because I have yet to find an electrician who actually cares about anything other than code. If I start to talk about oxidation, I immediately get the deer in the headlight look. They don't understand that kind of talk. Their philosophy? If it has within the acceptable range of 120 volts, their job is done. Nothing more for them to do. As an audiophile, that makes me cringe.
Making sure that things are no longer oxidized, that all connections are as tight as possible and that the ENTIRE grounding path is also not oxidized and tight definitely has the potential for better sound. You may not hear something that you never knew was there before. Just food for thought....
Tom
Minimal Acceptable Standards
treitz3, I am glad you said the above. I will go in $10 Million PLUS homes, and the general contractor will proudly tell me that everything is built to code. Code is a Radio Shack radio. Code is Minimal Acceptable Standards. When you buy a new house [even $10 Million PLUS homes]; you get a one year warranty if you are lucky & that warranty is very muddy water [taillight warranty]. Why? The engineer cannot trust the architect, the architect cannot trust the general contractor, the GC cannot trust the Subs, the Subs cannot trust their employees, etc. PLUS, no one is truly watching over the quality of the materials.
treitz3 - excellent post.
zz.
treitz3, I am glad you said the above. I will go in $10 Million PLUS homes, and the general contractor will proudly tell me that everything is built to code. Code is a Radio Shack radio. Code is Minimal Acceptable Standards. When you buy a new house [even $10 Million PLUS homes]; you get a one year warranty if you are lucky & that warranty is very muddy water [taillight warranty]. Why? The engineer cannot trust the architect, the architect cannot trust the general contractor, the GC cannot trust the Subs, the Subs cannot trust their employees, etc. PLUS, no one is truly watching over the quality of the materials.
treitz3 - excellent post.
zz.
Naughty naughty...pulling a meter is illegal and something I would NOT recommend doing!
I agree es347, even though I am the one who mentioned it. Please forgive me. It was just me chatting with all of you as I would chat with a visitor to my house who happened to be an audiophile looking to improve. I will go sit in the corner now with a dunce hat on.
Tom
If you want to work in the input side of the service pulling the meter is the usual way to do so. There is no power drawn so no loss of revenue. However, I usually have the electric company do it for me. Usually...
If you're going to work on something in your panel or downstream it's perfectly safe to do so with an open main breaker...
Why I said "input side"...
treitz3 -- Yes, although I was being facetious, we have stiffeners and cables bracing a lot of the poles out here due to wind and snow/ice loading. Don't think it will improve the sound, but whatever. A lot of this area, mine included, bury the power lines but a storm a few years ago took out thousands of poles feeding the local area and we were without power for a week. The noise floor of my system has never been better.
treitz3 -- Yes, although I was being facetious, we have stiffeners and cables bracing a lot of the poles out here due to wind and snow/ice loading. Don't think it will improve the sound, but whatever. A lot of this area, mine included, bury the power lines but a storm a few years ago took out thousands of poles feeding the local area and we were without power for a week. The noise floor of my system has never been better.
If I were going to consider any serious electrical work, even before a fancy electrical breaker panels, I'd explore something like deep earth grounding that they do for computer centers. I found this article intriguing (you may have to click through a couple of times), especially the plots that show resistance in ohms versus depth of ground rods. Even 20' deep is way better than the typical house ground. Somebody from WBF should try this and report back to us (Not me. I'm still recovering from the mistake of having a government contractor install and bill me for my FM roof antenna.)
http://www.cpccorp.com/deep.htm
http://www.cpccorp.com/deep.htm
The benefits of grounding vary and has little to do with the breaker box.
The better the wiring technique used for grounding by the various electronics in your system, the more immune it will be to how well or not the electrical in the building has been done.
Put another way, if your electronics have poor grounding design, you are likely to hear bigger differences on account of grounding the electrical system.
The better the wiring technique used for grounding by the various electronics in your system, the more immune it will be to how well or not the electrical in the building has been done.
Put another way, if your electronics have poor grounding design, you are likely to hear bigger differences on account of grounding the electrical system.
Electricians have told me that in businesses the lugs in all panels should all be tensioned on a regular basis. I think he said for sure, every couple years. I do not know if it's in the code or just good practice.
If you go down the lugs, you will almost always be able to tighten them some. The 60hz is a vibration and does loosen screws over time. For the business I'm in, we service all primary and secondary lugs on about a quarterly basis. Some don't move much, some will tighten a half turn. I've always generically referred to it as a "nut and bolt" session.
It's real, it happens and it's only logical to occasionally check how tight the lugs are in the panel and in electrical outlets. High current certainly causes this much more and home use wouldn't need nearly as often as in industrial settings. But over time in the home, it's only smart to do if you don't want current sag to effect transient high current pull moments.
CJ
If you go down the lugs, you will almost always be able to tighten them some. The 60hz is a vibration and does loosen screws over time. For the business I'm in, we service all primary and secondary lugs on about a quarterly basis. Some don't move much, some will tighten a half turn. I've always generically referred to it as a "nut and bolt" session.
It's real, it happens and it's only logical to occasionally check how tight the lugs are in the panel and in electrical outlets. High current certainly causes this much more and home use wouldn't need nearly as often as in industrial settings. But over time in the home, it's only smart to do if you don't want current sag to effect transient high current pull moments.
CJ
If you can afford thousands of dollars in audio gear, you can afford a electrician paid by the hour to do the job correctly.
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