Heard the Magico S5's yesterday

[mep]

Magico tweeter is quite special because they were able to push out the break up mode at a much higher frequency, which eliminated the harshness you hear sometimes with beryllium tweeter from other vendors. My ears are very sensitive to harshness in the highs. For example, I always found the Scanspeak Revelator on the Magico Mini a bit too bright and fatiguing for me. But I have to say that the beryllium tweeter on my Q1 is amazing, even better than the ribbon tweeter of my MM3 (as sweet, but with a better ability to reproduce the complex sound of a cymbal or a triangle)

Davey hears more tweeters ringing than most people hear Salvation Army bells ring at Christmas time. I just wonder at what frequency the Focal tweeters used by Wilson for so many years rings at. My guess it that it is fairly high in frequency which would explain why you don't hear Wilson owners complain about it. Apparently Davey has very good high frequency hearing.

 

[DaveyF]

Did you get that statement backwards?

Good point, mep. That's what happens when you're late to an appointment and trying to type on the forum at the same time..

 

[DaveyF]

Davey hears more tweeters ringing than most people hear Salvation Army bells ring at Christmas time. I just wonder at what frequency the Focal tweeters used by Wilson for so many years rings at. My guess it that it is fairly high in frequency which would explain why you don't hear Wilson owners complain about it. Apparently Davey has very good high frequency hearing.

You don't hear the high frequency ringing?? Or, are you implying that you don't believe the tweet rings simply because you cannot hear it.

 

[stereo]

Posts like this always give me a good chuckle. They remind me of the PC vs Mac days. The PC guys used to trot out the statistics on WHY PC's where better than Mac's. They would talk about the Ghz processors and the video card RAM and the this and the that. The Mac people just went along their marry way.

Trotting out statistics to prove why one speaker is better than another is of no use. You can use all the specs in the world. But, I will use my ears.

Oh and for the record, to answer your question of why I prefer the Alexia over the S5? Because smart ass, I own both of these speakers and you own which one? Neither. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

Good day sir.

???
Watch your tone. This is only a hobby. Always find it funny that every time you bring undisputed facts, some people react with either complete dismissal (without putting any fact on the table to support their statement, like if speaker design was a voodoo science and therefore it was meaningless to try to rationalize what you hear- I could show you measurements with 20% of distortion you would still tell me you prefer it!) or with statements which sound a bit like "I know better because I have Golden ear". Your ears are free to prefer an inferior design!

I don't have a S5 because I find the Q series superior. I have a S1 and Q1. I had a Q7 on order and replaced it with a pair of Ultimate. I moved away from Wilson more than 6 years ago.

 

[mbovaird]

I believe you need to watch your tone. You did not need to put down Wilson speakers with such condescending remarks. If they aren't your cup of tea, fine. The argument that Wilson speakers are only $30 in parts gets really old - fast. I may add my friend, I have heard many DIY speakers where these DIY's brag about their $800 woofers and $2000 tweeters and $600 crossovers. You know what? They sound like crap.

You don't like Wilson, fair enough. Enjoy your new Magico speakers.....they sure are pretty.

 

[stereo]

I believe you need to watch your tone. You did not need to put down Wilson speakers with such condescending remarks. If they aren't your cup of tea, fine. The argument that Wilson speakers are only $30 in parts gets really old - fast. I may add my friend, I have heard many DIY speakers where these DIY's brag about their $800 woofers and $2000 tweeters and $600 crossovers. You know what? They sound like crap.

You don't like Wilson, fair enough. Enjoy your new Magico speakers.....they sure are pretty.

Listen, I never made any personal attack. Never asked you to stick that in your pipe and smoke it.
I never said I don't like Wilson. I said I prefer Magico. IMHO, there are plenty of speakers which sound worse than the Alexia (as I wrote in above post)
Btw, I never said the Alexia are only $30 in (total) parts. I gave you a list of components they are using and it happens they are cheap. If you don't believe what I say, let's do a product tear down. I let you pick any Wilson in the range, we pick the equivalent Magico and tear them down for costing. Cost of components (drivers, XO, cabling) on the Magico will be 2-3 times higher. If the Wilson components cost more I pay you 30k. If the opposite, you pay me 30k. OK?

Besides, machining a resin cabinet takes time, it is expensive, much more than doing a MDF cabinet like 90% of speakers. I just think it is the wrong design choice: yes, it sounds much better than MDF, but if you go for this level of expense (just a bit lower than aluminum I think), there are better solution (carbon like Wilson Benesch or aluminum with good damping and bracing like Magico).

 

[Andre Marc]

 

[jap]

stereo,

If you moved away from WA six years ago, how do know what parts they're using in their current XOs, which are potted?

 

[stereo]

stereo,

If you moved away from WA six years ago, how do know what parts they're using in their current XOs, which are potted?

they show the parts they are using in their videos...

 

[stereo]

I've heard the Alexia's sound incredible with D'Agostino and McIntosh 601's (yes, Mcintosh!) and I've heard them sound a little thin with ARC and VTL.

I've heard the S5's sound incredible with pretty much everything but Constellation. Vitus Class A being tops.

MadFloyd - good luck on your journey!

Just saw on Soundstage that Japan distributor demoed this year the Q7 with McIntosh and Pass at the Tokyo audio show. Did anybody hear it? Unfortunately I couldn't go to Tokyo show this year, left Tokyo 2 days before. Would be curious to hear reactions on match with McIntosh, heard only once a McIntosh-Magico set up and was not convinced at all, but their range of product is so large that they may have another amp which works well with the Q7?

 

[mep]

You don't hear the high frequency ringing?? Or, are you implying that you don't believe the tweet rings simply because you cannot hear it.

I have never heard a pair of Wilson speakers that contain the Focal tweeter so I don't know if can hear freedom ring or not. I would like to know the frequency it rings at though just out of curiosity because I do believe it has to be high enough in frequency that most Wilson owners don't hear it. And given the age demographic of Wilson owners, that probably shouldn't be a terribly shocking revelation that some of them may have compromised high frequency hearing.

 

[MadFloyd]

The S5 would work well at 4 or 5 feet from the wall, no issue. They are more flexible of placement than the Alexia, and like most good speaker designs, if you can increase distance to 6-8 feet they will image even better. The Alexia will need to be nearer to back wall as their frequency response drops below 60Hz, you need to have the reinforcement of the back wall on the bass

What makes you believe that a cheap Scan Speak paper woofers and silk dome tweeter, a 30$ SB acoustics midrange, ferrite coils and Solen polypropylene in an overdamped Phenolic resin box will give a better speaker? the power of brands like Wilson always amazed me.... your post sounds a bit like post rationalization ;-)
On cabinet technology, see this interesting chart:

On tweeter: Berrylium tweeter of S5 gives you higher extension and much lower distortion than silk dome. Less distortion means it sounds sweeter, while having at the same time higher transparency.

On paper woofers: if you would see the level of distortion at 100dB you would laugh! place a bet: 20%? 30%?

on Mid-range: nothing bests the stiffness to weight ratio of the carbon fiber nano-tube structure of the S5. Which means again lower distortion and faster driver. Same for neodymium magnet: much more expensive but more linear magnetic field, lower distortion.

On XO: suggest you open your Alexia, replace the ferrite coils with the Mundorf oxygen-free copper foil of the S5, and the Solen polypropylene caps with the Mundorf Silver and gold and oil capacitors (also of the S5): you would be SHOCKED how much more transparent the Alexia would sound. I played a lot with XO when I was trying to improve my own speakers for fun long time ago: I have done the test. So why is Wilson not doing it? because it makes more sense for them to spend a lot of money in a nice spray painting (visible to consumers) than in parts that 90% of consumers don't think of, and using better components like the S5 would increase cost of the XO by a factor 7 to 10...

Truth is that the S5 is at $29.4k a real bargain - no wonder that the waiting list is getting longer. People interested should get one before year end, I wouldn't be surprised that Magico increases its price next year now that they have launched the S3.

Thanks for this, stereo. The rear wall proximity being part of the design of Wilsons rings true based on my experience.

 

[microstrip]

Thanks for this, stereo. The rear wall proximity being part of the design of Wilsons rings true based on my experience.

My Alexia's are currently 6-7 feet from the back wall. But I am still fine tuning them, and for politeness and respect for Magico owners I will not comment on how they sound in this thread.

 

[DaveyF]

I have never heard a pair of Wilson speakers that contain the Focal tweeter so I don't know if can hear freedom ring or not. I would like to know the frequency it rings at though just out of curiosity because I do believe it has to be high enough in frequency that most Wilson owners don't hear it. And given the age demographic of Wilson owners, that probably shouldn't be a terribly shocking revelation that some of them may have compromised high frequency hearing.

Mep, that statement is probably true. The age demographic would lead to your logical conclusion. However, please believe me when I say that I can hear the Focal's and many other metal domed tweeters ring. BTW, I am FAR from being the only one that has heard this.

 

[rockitman]

I have never heard a pair of Wilson speakers that contain the Focal tweeter so I don't know if can hear freedom ring or not. I would like to know the frequency it rings at though just out of curiosity because I do believe it has to be high enough in frequency that most Wilson owners don't hear it. And given the age demographic of Wilson owners, that probably shouldn't be a terribly shocking revelation that some of them may have compromised high frequency hearing.

supposedly at 15K. I can't hear it, so it's a non issue for me. Perhaps listening to digital exacerbates the issue.

 

[jap]

My Alexia's are currently 6-7 feet from the back wall. But I am still fine tuning them, and for politeness and respect for Magico owners I will not comment on how they sound in this thread.

Bravo!

 

[PeterA]

My Alexia's are currently 6-7 feet from the back wall. But I am still fine tuning them, and for politeness and respect for Magico owners I will not comment on how they sound in this thread.

Many thanks. There are other Magico vs. Wilson threads out there.

 

[mep]

Mep, that statement is probably true. The age demographic would lead to your logical conclusion. However, please believe me when I say that I can hear the Focal's and many other metal domed tweeters ring. BTW, I am FAR from being the only one that has heard this.

Davey-I do believe that you hear some type of ringing and obviously if you can hear it, some others can as well. It may well be a tribute to how good your high frequency hearing is.

 

[mep]

supposedly at 15K. I can't hear it, so it's a non issue for me. Perhaps listening to digital exacerbates the issue.

15Khz is a high frequency, but it's not outside of the audio band. Depending on your age and/or your exposure to constant high sound pressure levels, it could certainly be beyond the hearing ability of lots of men.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Stereo why dont you change your forum name to magico ?
I ll be watching in januari to see your "ultimates "arrive if they arrive? , design wise , dont you think the buildquality/attention and looks of the xlf beats the magico q 7 BOX anytime, its still a BOX afterall